Tax rate poll 900BC

We have been cruising along quite nicely on 30/70/0 for some time, and the techs are coming in with regularity. However, it has been suggested that the Indians will be nearly finished with their Colossus project and that we might have to buy the remaining shields to ensure that we get this very useful wonder in the city of our (though not GaryNemo's ) choosing.
Duke's solution is to set the tax rate to 70/30/0 and to use the increased revenue to buy as many shields of the wonder as possible, also disbanding units in Elysium to boost the shields we already have. Is it worth it to change the tax rate to get this extra cash, or will the Indians not have made as much progress as believed?

I don't want to tread on GaryNemo's toes with this poll but I realised he may not be aware that this is part of his Advisor role (yes, yet more things to do!) and posted it to ensure that we make a decision before the next turns are played by our queen.

Thank you, duke. I need all the help I can get. Anyone willing to post some analysis on this? Not the Indians, just our timeline, cash flow, include disbanding Diplomat that is available, etc...

I have also suggested building new Warriors in LN & RC...

I don't know how much extra gold we will make per turn under the new tax rate I'm afraid, which would exceedingly beneficial before others vote on this poll (hint, hint), but here is the current breakdown:

We have 89 shields to build to complete the Colossus. From next turn we will have 7 shields per turn, so with the disbanding of the diplomat we'll need 67 shields. The price to RB shields for wonders is 4g per shield. We have about 150g in the bank, with however much after changing the tax rate. 67 shields will require 268g to rushbuy. This rushbuying will lose us 7 shields, but if we ever get that far along then we won't be too worried about that and can even put all the workers onto the ocean for a trade boost. The figure to rushbuy can be reduced by 28g for each turn we build normally, and by 20g for each warrior we throw into the mill! So after next turn we can RB the wonder for 240g, then 212g, then 184g, etc. We should easily be able to make the 184g target, although maybe the next one up too depending on the new tax rate. We can also feed another hastily-built warrior from RC to the melting-pot to save 20g more, but whether we will have to buy it before we get a chance to do this is another matter. Can someone then please tell me what the new income per turn would be under 70/30/0?

I have posted an analysis of the Colossus build here .

BTW, the current rates are 40/60/0.
Changing to 70/30/0 gains us 10g/turn (new income = 25g).

Based on the analysis, I don't think that raising taxes is worthwhile unless there is a pressing need to build up the treasury.

If DoM is correct, we will certainly need to RB and lose 7 shields. We won't have any time to throw warriors into the mill.

I've been doing a bit of calculation and I think by changing the tax rate we could have the Colossus bought in 5 turns, without sacrificing units. If I get the announcement that the Indians have almost finished, I'll stop play so we can decide what to do next, unless we have enough money and it's agreed we spend it. Please feel free to check my calculations and shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong! I haven't taken into account other cities growing and adding to our treasury.

At the moment we need $356 to RB, there are 89s left to go, and we have $134 in the treasury.

After 1 turn: 82s, $328RB, $159tres
2: 75s, $300RB, $174tres
3: 68s, $272RB, $199tres
4: 61s, $244RB, $224tres
5: 54s, $216RB, $249tres

It's a shame we don't have anyone to demand tribute from to help with funds!

Great analysis Monk, Duke

It may be pretty obvious, but I say don't disband anything until we see the indian wonder warning. We then carefully calculate what we need to disband, and what we don't. The question then remains as to how to prioritise the disbands.

I can't remember the exact units in Elysium, but isn't it a NON chariot, a legion and a diplomat that will be there next turn?

The legion should be the first to go. Then we need to decide between the NON unit and the diplomat. What are the comparative shield values?

The advantage of disbanding the diplomat is that we can keep the NON unit, with no support costs. Seeing as the treasury will be severely depleted, we won't be able to bribe straight away, so the delay whilst we build another settler is not critical anyway.

As for the chariot, the NON unit is probably not as important now that our economy is a bit more 'viable', and we have the hanging gardens.

Someone want to prioritise these via a poll, or is discussion sufficient?

P.S. Raise the taxes

Very interesting analysis, duke & MonkE ! Thank you both.

Stopping IPRB seems prudent. There is no time for a Warrior to walk there, you're right, so that's not relevant. As much as I wished for Colossus with HG, I am a dedicated public oficial, and am now dedicated to helping My Queen to accomplish this Colossus project. For example, we sent the Diplomat to Elysium long ago. No Science is crucial at the moment, beating the Indians is. Caravans can not arrive in time, And, if the enemy finishes first, what will happen to all that production?

So, maybe we should max tax, even put some workers in the ocean, go all the way. If we didn't, we might be sorry. If we do, we might all sleep easy next week.

I assume we can wait for a message regarding the Indians Project, then disband and Rush Buy. So, what's the harm?

Originally posted by Jayne
I've been doing a bit of calculation and I think by changing the tax rate we could have the Colossus bought in 5 turns, without sacrificing units. If I get the announcement that the Indians have almost finished, I'll stop play so we can decide what to do next, unless we have enough money and it's agreed we spend it. Please feel free to check my calculations and shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong! I haven't taken into account other cities growing and adding to our treasury.

At the moment we need $356 to RB, there are 89s left to go, and we have $134 in the treasury.

After 1 turn: 82s, $328RB, $159tres
2: 75s, $300RB, $174tres
3: 68s, $272RB, $199tres
4: 61s, $244RB, $224tres
5: 54s, $216RB, $249tres

It's a shame we don't have anyone to demand tribute from to help with funds!

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Good analysis as well

Maybe a balance between disbanding and saving money for bribery (especially if barbs turn up). It would be great to bribe a barb unit or two then disband them into the colossus

Elysium has a None Archer, a Chariot supported by RC, and a Diplomat.

Let's disband the Dip first, since it can't qwell unhappiness. Then the Chariot. Rather keep the None Archer, and generate $lots $of $gold! With the money left over, can can aggressively IPRB Settlers and another Diplomat.

I don't have time to post a poll right now. If anyone wants to do it, post here that you are working on it, then please post the poll. There are six choices, priority among 3 units, right? A Multi-Poll might be the best solution!

An interesting thought Gary!
I know I keep pestering you with demands like this but can someone work out how much extra we will get per turn at 70/30/0 and with as many workers as possible on the ocean? Though obviously not those workers we will need to boost production on the Colossus. Right, from the north-east moving southwards:
Dellham on whale and water,
Reneaux on wine and river shield,
Mordheimia on water,
Marl Downs on water,
RC on the three water specials,
TF on waters,
LN on roaded grassland shield and water,
and Civvium on whale.
Phew! I know this is a big ask, but I reckon we can get quite a bit more cash by doing this while not affecting production in Elysium. The only difficulty would be that we may not be able to maintain all our troops. We need a balance so that we can keep the troops we've built yet still make as much as cash as possible and avoid starving any cities. Running a food deficit in a few cities wioll be fine for a few turns because we can easily recoup it later on, but to lose population points would be just stupid. Apart from in Elysium, production can take a back seat for the few turns it will take us to decide this matter properly. It's a bold plan, but what does everyone think about it?

Rearranging workers and the tax rate as the Duke suggests will give an income of 34g/turn (9 more than a tax rate change alone). Every city still has a food surplus and there is no shield support to worry about.

This changes the numbers in Jayne's post to
1: 82s, $328RB, $168tres
2: 75s, $300RB, $202tres
3: 68s, $272RB, $236tres
4: 61s, $244RB, $260tres
5: 54s, $216RB, $304tres

Reassigning the workers allows a no-disband RB one turn sooner.

It is guaranteed that we can beat the Indians to Colossus. Right now I favor maximum taxes to raise funds. If disbanding is necessary, it seems the natural order would be: diplomat, RC chariot, and lastly the None archer.

It's only a turn earlier that we can buy the rest of it, but I feel that this may definitely be worth it!
Thanks to everyone for helping out here and doing the calculations.

MonkE, duke, Jayne, ainwood, you are each a blessing for the government of NUF. A turn earlier might make all the diference in the world. I agree entirely, let's max this out and hope we don't have to spend it all. But if we do, we'll be glad we did!

Jayne, you move Saturday evening, right? English time?

Excellent work! And great thinking, Duke

Raise the tax rate for 4/5 turns to ensure that we can acheive this goal. The base assumption is that the Indians will complete in probably 6 turns (iirc).

What happens if this assumption is wrong and they declare early. We need to be in a position to complete as soon as they declare with as much gold/ shields as we can muster. We can always reset the tax rate when this crisis is over.

Wow! Great thinking all, go for the colossus in 4 turns using the tax boost and changing tiles techniques. Even if the Indians aren't near us shields wise, the extra 5 or 6 turns worth of colossus power is nice.

Max Taxes. We need to be prepared for a rush of Colossus if needed.

At the moment, if we had to get the Colossus done right now, we could not. If we max taxes and disband all units in the city, I think we can get it done in one turn, then it just gets better from there. Untill we have it built, we need to be prepared for getting it done at a moments notice........

Originally posted by GaryNemo

Jayne, you move Saturday evening, right? English time?

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Yes, at about 1930GMT after Princess Lucy has gone to bed!

Would it really do any harm to raise taxes just for 4/5 turns so we have the reserves to complete the Colossus if required? When we have enough I switch the tax back. We make sure we've got enough money to RB if necessary, and the longer it is before we need to do that, the more we've got spare to do a bit of IPRB.

Well that's the plan. If we wait until the Indians announce that they are nearly complete then it will be too late for raising the tax level to make any difference. We have to do it now, and then use the cash we have stockpiled to buy it as soon as the announcement comes. I think that if we only raise the tax for 5 turns then we will have enough, regardless of what messages the Indians may give us, and we can return to concentrating on science.
If we get the message that they are nearly done then we have to buy it straight off, and if that means we disband all the troops in the city then so be it. We'll disband the dip into the project anyway, but may have to use the other 2 as well. It all depends upon what happens in the next couple of turns. I can't wait!

I hope that Princess Lucy has already discovered the advance of Peaceful Night's Sleep though. When will she come into her inheritance as Queen of Fanatica? Are you planning to abdicate when she's ready?

Originally posted by GaryNemo
MonkE, duke, Jayne, ainwood, you are each a blessing for the government of NUF.

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[cough][splutter].
No, Gary. You are a blessing for our government and I thank my lucky stars that my election campaign worked as we may have been in some trouble had it not.