Civil Disorder

I've been wondering about raising luxury rates to sort out some of the civil disorder. We need at rate of at least 40% to solve anything other than RC (where we just need 10% to sack specialist and still celebrate).

I think we can sack specialist in RC, LC, Dellham and CJ and have RC, LC, Dellham, Elysium and Civvium celebrating.

I'm not sure if I've worked it out right, and would be grateful for someone to work it out as well. Would the celebrating and extra workers bring in enough additional income to compensate for lowering income and science taxes?

Generally, all cities can be size=2 once they get a black dude, without a problem.

Neuma is one such city. If the Warriors had gone elsewhere last turn, we could have had $gold working the ocean. At this point, the new serf must work to Forest, and the Settlers will be built in 7 turns, or 6 turns w $4 IPRB=20. Then be careful at the moment of growth, then Serf to ocean or forest or readed plains. Ship the Warrior to another island, perhaps? or head North?

Ditto TFalls, serf encamps outside, serf to GLS Road, then Temple in 5 and grows in 6. Excellent Efficiency, your excellency!

Ditto Dellham, but that is more exciting because we might wish our guard were fortified inside if more VIkings landed. I say we live dangerously, go for the extra productivity of a River Plains serf, then Temple in 5 turns, otherwise 7 turns.

That takes care of 3 Elvii, can anyone spot some others?

Bedfont Lakes now has a Black Dude, hence safety at Size=2.

Build temples.
And marketplaces.
I have never had to raise the luxury rate in Civ 2 just to keep order. Nor have I ever had to build 'Police' units.

Surely marketplaces make no difference to happiness if you have no luxury rate in the first place?!!

Aye but a temple in each size 3 city costs money

Correct, My Queen. Markets require Luxury to quell disorder. And Luxuries would be horribly wasteful in this epoch. The problem we all face is Deity. We must get Mike's, and someday build a few markets for that event. RC, Elysium, Marl Downs, perhaps Reneaux with it's Wine Mine. At the moment, these cities will serve us better building Caravans for Wonders.

We have 3 Temples, and are building 5 more. I recommend one more in Legendary City, to keep ainwood happy.

With the Temples, we are making more production, and a bit more money. Profit. Take a look at the Status I post each turn.

When we get Mike's, we can multiply our Population overnight in cities with Temples, using a brief huge Luxury boost. We will then cruise with perhaps 20 or 30% Luxury and pull easily ahead of all AI.

GaryNemo (11:10 AM) :
I just posted about the luxuries. Was I persuasive, and answer all questions? Brb.
Jayne (11:10 AM) : Just looking now...
GaryNemo (11:17 AM) :
We could chat, I'll post, then I really must get back to church. Ideas?
Jayne (11:19 AM) :
I'm still bothered about all the disorder, which is why I was looking at luxury rates, but I think you're right - we need temples and caravans for Mike's
GaryNemo (11:19 AM) :
Yes. One Trireme, carefully prioritized. One Wine delivery.
All other effort into Caravans and new cities.
Stockpile Caravans for both wonders.
Jayne (11:21 AM) :
Yes. I'm playing my first solo deity game for years this afternoon, and my new towns are starting off immediately with unhappy people. I must have too many cities! 100BC Monarchy
GaryNemo (11:21 AM) : Good idea to practice!
GaryNemo (11:23 AM) :
And the micromanagement, such as at TFalls I mentioned. If CFC Search is back on, try 'Black Dudes' or the like. The HG is fantastic, all cities can be Size=2, IF NO GUARD.
GaryNemo (11:24 AM) : I'm out of time. Anything else? then I'll post this chat.
Jayne (11:24 AM) : No. Speak to you another time!

Generally, I build HG and temples first, then Mich's. When I get to Republic, then, if needed, I'll throw some luxuries into the mix. At that point roads and marketplaces will be what we need for cities.

I think, for the most part, we are dealing with it to the best of our ability right now. Temples are well worth the 1 gold they cost per turn. The worker they keep out in the fields more than covers that cost.

We have Hanging Gardens, which causes the bizarre behavior we now see, that a city is only stable at Size=2 without a guard. This is Deity, so without HG we would be even worse off.

Looking at our cities in 60AD, it seems we have two choices.
Either Freeze growth at Size=2 with no guard, or
Temple and 2 guards to grow to Size=3.

An example is Reneaux, with 3 Black Dudes. Needs 2 Police.
Elysium has only one Black Dude, at the moment.
Bedfont Lakes has no guard, size=2

Originally posted by GaryNemo
An example is Reneaux, with 3 Black Dudes. Needs 2 Police.
Elysium has only one Black Dude, at the moment.
Bedfont Lakes has no guard, size=2

Click to expand...

This is because of all the filler cities. Right now it is a problem with all the black guys, but when reaching republic or democracy this will celebrate most cities

Well yes, it's because of the Filler Cities, also called the Riot Factor. Since all cities can be size=2, and it is a struggle to grow beyond that, that is why I have been promoting fillers.

We are WAY ahead of the AI, you know, in a Deity game. The AI is too foolish to build Fillers.

Then there is the mystery of the Castle Jayne Celebration, which continues in 120AD. What does that mean? CJ has a Temple and no guard. The Elvis permits the other two workers to Celebrate! Moving the Phx in has no effect. Without Elvis: riot. With Elvis, no guard, Celebration! This deserves more of everyone's thought...

Perhaps they just love me!

GaryNemo (8:29 AM) :
People are thinking of Mike's Chapel. To me, that means Republic. So, we must be careful of our support. For example, Civvium supports The Trireme. Thus, it cannot support any other war unit. Caravans and Dips from now on.
MonkE (8:30 AM) :
I also look forward to Republic. Every military unit takes a shield, no?
GaryNemo (8:31 AM) :
Yes, so our production will take a beating. It is nice to have the critical Wonders built first. And the Coal Mine, perhaps other mines.
GaryNemo (8:35 AM) :
We have a dearth of Hills, and none I see that are within the radius of two cities.

I agree on building mike's and only having one war unit per city when entering republic, but I usually don't want many units on the field when switching to it. So I think we should either stay in monarchy and fight the vikings, or we wait with vikings and get our republic stable before conquering them

Originally posted by funxus
I agree on building mike's and only having one war unit per city when entering republic, but I usually don't want many units on the field when switching to it. So I think we should either stay in monarchy and fight the vikings, or we wait with vikings and get our republic stable before conquering them

Click to expand...

Agreed.

Moving into Republic

Of course Republic will double our Trade, hence nearly double our Science and Income. I say nearly, because we will then need Luxuries to maintain order. Our Police will become ineffective, and we will pay substantial shield support costs.

However, I for one believe the benefits outway the costs by a large margin. I'd like to open a discussion of the little details that will get us there.

Here is an outline. Please add your ideas, pose a question, add a topic, anything.

1. Support: 1 shield per Unit, 2 food per Settler.
2. Unhappiness and Civil Disorder: 1 war unit per city.
3. Trade Routes and Markets.
4. Wonders: Mike's is all we need.
5. Oedo year for the Revolution.
6. Luxuries.
7. Celebration: Population Explosion, Irrigation.
8. Diplomacy and War.

Shield support will become a problem, but we can prepare by rehoming units. Also, we will immediately disband half of our warriors, as they will become ineffective as police. REGIA CIVITAS supports 3 units, so its production will drop from 7 to 4. One of the units is a Legion in Elysium.

Since production will be reduced, we might take precautions. First, build enough Caravans for immediate Trade and Wonders, so they are nearly completed before we Form the Republican Government. Second, build Mines. Dellham Hill is appropriate, but we have few other Hills. It takes 10 turns to mine a Hill, and is well worth it. It is most productive to plan to permanently staff the Mine.

These other cities will be affected by Support: Neuma, Mord (easily resolved), Dellham.
Of course, we already know Roskilde and Udal present special problems.
Elysium and others are well cared for, and will be affected by only 1 shield, nothing.

Certain units should NOT be rehomed, for reasons related to Topic 2, Unhappiness. Some are: the Reneaux Horse near Uppsala, the Dellham Legion in Roskilde, the CJ Archer near Udal,

In my own games, I rename cities constantly to keep track of my plans. I use a suffix of X to mean "Get rid of supporting something", and H means "Home a war unit here, this city can Handle it." (I use a thicket of codes: R needs Road, T needs Temple, M needs Marketplace, BC needs to Build a City, Bc needs to eventually Build a City, W Worker settler, St to Start a Settler, and many others as I see fit.(

Topic 2, Unhappiness, to follow. Would any one else like to review it?

Btw, a Free For All Discussion would be fine. However, I think it will be best to discuss topics as they become issues for NUF, one at a time.

Originally posted by GaryNemo
Of course Republic will double our Trade

Click to expand...

Republic adds one trade arrow to any square already producing a trade arrow. Tiles like Silk and Fish that have three trade will only get one more trade, not three more. Granted, the trade boost from Republic is large, but not quite double. After allowing for the needed luxuries, we should still have a nice increase in gold and science. I still always find the early times of Republic to be slow, usually because the units require more support. Irrigation will become a requirement for some of the cities, as well as more roads.

I'm against switching allready, but think it's good to start planning for it. Maybe we could make a schedule or something like it, showing how long time it'll take until we have roaded enough and built wonders and improvements enough to celebrate.
We haven't filled our continent with cities yet, we haven't roaded to and around all cities, and we don't have mike's. This will have to be done, and also making sure we have built MP and temples in cities needing it.