Great Leaders

Shaitan · Nov 1, 2002

This discussion is about Great Leaders and especially what to do with our critical first Great Leader. The basic options are to create an army or to rush a wonder.

When discussion here peters out there will be a poll, if necessary.

Eklektikos · Nov 1, 2002

I believe that our first Great Leader should be used to create an army, thus enabling us to build the Heroic Epic which will increase our Great Leader generation chances in the future. Further leaders should be used to rush strategically valuable Great Wonders if they are available, or to create more Armies. The AI is notorious for its inability to effectively counter attacks involving multiple armies

Shaitan · Nov 1, 2002

I agree with Eklektikos. The first army is a must. Actually, the first victory of the first army is a must. We will not be able to outproduce the AI in regards to great wonders so producing Great Leaders is a high priority. The Heroic Epic is a critical construction for us.

Chieftess · Nov 1, 2002

This reminds me of demogame 1.

Of course, we had an Immortal Army then (and got lucky with a lot of GLs)... I'm kind of mixed on this issue, though.

Falcon02 · Nov 1, 2002

My feeling is, first rush Great Library, hope for another GL, and then THAT one build an Army.

Bill_in_PDX · Nov 1, 2002

I would favor building an army and getting that victory. With a military civ and the heroic epic, we would be getting a lot of GL for our effort down the road.

Shaitan · Nov 1, 2002

I know a lot of people are swayed towards using the first great leader to build the great library, it's not just Falcon02. I'll attempt to address the mystique of this wonder.

The Great Library is a fine building with a very nice game effect. It is not a critical wonder though. The difference between nice and critical is whether we can reproduce its effects on our own. The Great Library's effect is to give us free tech. We have other means to get that free tech so we can have the same result without the wonder. Another example of a nice but not critical wonder would be the Hoover Dam. It has a great effect but it is an effect we can produce on our own.

Examples of critical Great Wonders would be Smith's and the UN. These have effects for the controller that can never be duplicated without that wonder.

Padma · Nov 1, 2002

I know as Culture Minister I should tout using Great Leaders to rush Wonders, but when it comes to actual game play, I have to agree that we should build an Army first, to increase our chances of great Leaders in the future.

And after all, isn't that what any leader should do? Put the good of Fanatika above the good of his own department, if necessary?

Strider · Nov 1, 2002

I'd prefer a rushing of the GL, but that's of course if we do get a GL and if it's within time to rush it.

Also Shaitan.... How can we get free techs on are own..... The only reason by doing that is when we sign for peace (or forcing other nations to give them to us). If we get them when we sign for peace then we will be so far behind in technological advancement it won't even be funny.

eyrei · Nov 1, 2002

Originally posted by Strider
I'd prefer a rushing of the GL, but that's of course if we do get a GL and if it's within time to rush it.

Also Shaitan.... How can we get free techs on are own..... The only reason by doing that is when we sign for peace (or forcing other nations to give them to us). If we get them when we sign for peace then we will be so far behind in technological advancement it won't even be funny.

We are going to fall behind in technology very often in this game, with or without the Great Library, so we are going to have to get used to it. The GL will only delay it a little while.

An army is essential, and will be particularly useful in holding the land bridge, since the AI will almost never attack an army fortified in a city, and we will be able to move it from city to city if necessary.

Strider · Nov 1, 2002

Originally posted by eyrei

We are going to fall behind in technology very often in this game, with or without the Great Library, so we are going to have to get used to it. The GL will only delay it a little while.

An army is essential, and will be particularly useful in holding the land bridge, since the AI will almost never attack an army fortified in a city, and we will be able to move it from city to city if necessary.

I know we will fall behind in tech research. Which is why I am already trying to make plans to where we won't fall behind as much, but like I stated we will fall behind so much in technological advancement that it won't even be funny. (If we only get tech's from peace treaty's)

If somebody would actually listen to me then I wouldn't have go to this every single day.

Veera Anlai · Nov 2, 2002

Well, I'm certainly in favor of rushing the Wonder, but that's more likely due to my style of play. War? What's it good for? Give me the good ol' science or cultural victories anyday :-D

But anyways, it would be optimal if we could get both. If we could build the Army and H.E. first, then do the Great Library before the other civilizations do, I would be in favor of that. Chances are though, that won't happen. We can build an army at any time in the game; not so with the Great Library, which is why I'd favor using the leader to rush.

donsig · Nov 7, 2002

Why was it deemed unnecessary to poll on the use of our first Great Leader? This discussion thread contains 12 posts by 9 citizens. 5 were for creating an army, 3 were for rushing the Great Library and 1 was undecided. This sampling seems close enough to me to have warranted a citizen poll especially since many citizens may have missed this entire discussion due to the *server busy* messages?

Our President maintains he has explained this issue time and again and the subject should be dropped or a PI initiated. Simply sayng there was a formal discussion and noting that it was deemed unnecessary to poll on the issue is not a sufficient explanation. As I prefer an explanation to a PI I thought asking once more in this thread would be appropriate.

BCLG100 · Nov 7, 2002

uhm i didnt notice this thread so i think we should have used it for an army and i do think a poll would have been worthwhile

disorganizer · Nov 7, 2002

@bc: we used it for an army

Strider · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by donsig
Why was it deemed unnecessary to poll on the use of our first Great Leader? This discussion thread contains 12 posts by 9 citizens. 5 were for creating an army, 3 were for rushing the Great Library and 1 was undecided. This sampling seems close enough to me to have warranted a citizen poll especially since many citizens may have missed this entire discussion due to the *server busy* messages?

Our President maintains he has explained this issue time and again and the subject should be dropped or a PI initiated. Simply sayng there was a formal discussion and noting that it was deemed unnecessary to poll on the issue is not a sufficient explanation. As I prefer an explanation to a PI I thought asking once more in this thread would be appropriate.

This wasn't polled? This is just as PIable as your PI donsig.

disorganizer · Nov 8, 2002

well. in fact no. read the rules

Shaitan · Nov 8, 2002

donsig makes valid points but the crux of the matter is that Great Leaders, and what to do with them, are a subject that should have been decided at the start of the game (at least tentatively). The chats are not going to be stopped for items that should already have been handled.

Falcon02 · Nov 8, 2002

Shaitan, I don't mean to be devil's advocate here, but this thread seemed to imply that YOU were planning on making sure it was taken care of before the chat, with this thread and the suggestion you'd post a poll later.

Shaitan · Nov 8, 2002

Indeed, it was my intent to get concrete plans laid here. The situation in the game occured before that was possible though. I used this thread as a reference and my own judgement to come to a decision on what to do with the Great Leader.

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