FA Discussion: Allies against the Persians

Well, the Persians have declared war on us from across the world, because we would not give them incense for free. We need to immediately drag as many civs as possible into this war, both to keep the Persians from ever getting to us, and to keep them from finding any alliances. Here is a list of all the possible alliances (civs that we already have embassies with):

America: 267 gold or education
France: 214 gold or feudalism, education or engineering
England: 108 gold or feudalism, education or engineering
India: 97 gold or education
Russia: 291 gold or education
China: 286 or education
Iroquois: 331 gold
Babylon: 445 gold

I will post a full proposal soon, but it will definately include alliances with England and France for feudalism, since they will get it very soon anyway. Obviously, if we are willing to trade education we could bring most of the world down on the Persians. 2 civs already have it, and will likely sell it to anyone we pay gold for an alliance, so we might as well just use the tech and save our money.

We also need to establish an embassy with Rome, as they are Persia's closest neighbor, and likely have quite a few legions, which are an excellent counter to immortals. The embassy will cost 95 gold, but they would likely sign an alliance for education, like everyone else. We can also give them the incense the Persians wanted so badly

We should also ask Greece and the Zulus (possibly get an embassy with both).

I agree with the idea of trading tech for the alliances.

China is a must as they should be pumping out Riders shortly. Also, I say if we can get 6 civs to ally with us solely for the Education tech, let's do it. It's almost like a free alliance with 5 civs as we will get to shop Education before they can trade it amongst themselves.

I am pretty much against giving all that gold to either Babylon or the Iroquois for this alliance, however. My reasoning is:

1. They are in no strategic position to help.
2. If our allies are taking care of Persia, we should be able to dedicate ourselves to another war on our western front. Our troops are already in the area, and unless things go drastically wrong, we should still be able to pit one against the other should Xerxes come a-callin'. We can spend the gold on an alliance with one of them then.

Keep in mind, our war with the Japanese is winding down. Once we take Kyoto, we should almost be in a position to grab some of their cities for peace. I'd really hate to not get the best trade from Japan because we are worried about this possible threat. Let's keep sending knights to the area so we can be ready for a possible skirmish with either Hiawatha or Hammy.

Hmm. Looks like we are going to educate the world during our war with the Persians. Something to keep in mind, the Romans just cancelled the Dye trade deal we had with them for no apparent reason. They may backstab us again just for kicks.

The Iros and Babs would not only be our strongest and most expensive allies, they are also our most feared neighbors, as their Military might is equal to ours.

An embassy and alliance with the Zulus (equal militarily) may be cheaper than one with Rome.

China's military strength does not equal ours, but as Donovan Zoi says, the will be getting Riders soon and they are pretty much between the Persians and us. This may be a very good way to go. As far as a future foe in the SW, at this time we might look at India. They are militarily weaker than us and are crowding our borders. If we were to get an alliance with China, India would not be able to look to them for help.

So it looks like Education will be our main trading factor, but we need to decide who our allies will be. I believe we should bring the Zulus in to the scope of consideration. China looks like a strong candidate, and England is inexspensive and has a ship in the area for when the Persians row their Galley into Huntington.

Ok. Here is a proposal:

These steps would need to be taken in the order they are listed.

1. Establish an embassy with Rome. Give them education to join the war. An alliance with the Romans will provide immediate conflict for Persian troops making their way north.

2. Establish an embassy with the Zulus. Give them education to join the war, plus whatever else they would need.

3. Sign alliances with the French and English for feudalism.

4. Give the chinese education and whatever else they need to join the war. The decreased value of education at this point may require we give them some gold, but I doubt it.

5. Give India education and whatever else they need to join the war.

6. Give the Iroquois 331 gold to join the alliance.

This gives us 7 allies for very little money, and leaves only Russia and Babylon out of it. Hopefully, one of our newfound 'friends' will bring these civs into it. Further, because our military might is greater than many of our allies, the Persians will find it cheaper to get alliances against them rather than us.

If everything goes well, we may actually be afforded the time to annihilate the Japanese, since the Persians will be well occupied, as will everyone else. We should at least send a few knights to the Persian front to keep an eye on what is going on.

This is not a final proposal. Please let me know what you think.

Sounds good. But should we trust the Romans since they had cuts us off of there lux.

Dont forget the Greeks! They are in the battle zone and could march through. Also: May I recomend once the Egypt aliances are done (and the cities taken) we see if it would be possible/ sensible to draw Cleo into this.

I like your plan, eyrei, except for the very last part. I am doubtful Xerxes will be sending much of a force by land. He will probably come by sea. I think we should rush a barracks in Penguin and build a galley to help the English. Then we can saill along their coast for updates. Any Knights that we can spare (1 or 2) should head for Huntington. Here we are talking Military strategy in a F/A thread.

rush a barracks in Penguin
I like that. Rush baracks, build naval units. Also: After thats done, a courthouse would be nice there (5 wasted shields)

I like the plan.

Cyc, one thing the AI is really not capable of is a sea invasion. They may send a couple galleys, but a few knights patrolling the coast should be sufficient to handle any landing party. The majority of their forces are undoubtably marching through Roman territory as we speak.

SAam, the Egyptians are down to only a couple cities, and will likely not survive the duration of our alliances against them.

I have to agree with eyrei. In all my civing, I've never seen a mass amphibious attack.

Also, the alliance plan looks excellent to me. We need to get as many as possible (as cheaply) on our side before the Xerxes sends anything our way. It's possible he's got a Stack of Death sitting around somewhere.

I agree with starting our navy. As Eyrie said, the AI vary rarely does a sea invasion. A Coastal defense of a couple of knights should do the trick.

The downside of the Galley is that It can only travel on coast tiles. If a galley stops in eather the sea or ocean tile, it has a greater risk of sinking.

A poll regarding this proposal has been posted here.

Eyrei,

I have actually found a way to make a great plan even better. Just for the heck of it, I wanted to see how valuable these techs were to our future allies. Heres what I found out:

England will give us 23g plus the alliance for Feudalism
France will give us 11g and 3gpt plus the alliance for Feudalism
China will give us 19g plus the alliance for Education
India will give us 12g plus the alliance for Education

Also of note:
Rome has 43g plus Dyes. I suggest that after we gain embassy, we ask for this as an added bonus to your proposal. If it doesn't fly let them take the gold off the table. We should be able to get one or the other.
To test my theory I spoke with Abe of the Americans, who would be willing to part with Dyes and ally with us for Education. I told him we'd think about it

Zululand has 17g to give as well.

As you can see, this is good news for Fanatika! The only thing keeping these deals from getting better is that some of these backwards nations don't have harbors yet! Please let me know what you think.

FYI, I posted this info in your poll thread as well.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Also of note:
Rome has 43g plus Dyes. I suggest that after we gain embassy, we ask for this as an added bonus to your proposal. If it doesn't fly let them take the gold off the table. We should be able to get one or the other.
To test my theory I spoke with Abe of the Americans, who would be willing to part with Dyes and ally with us for Education. I told him we'd think about it

Click to expand...

Can Rome keep there part of the agreement. I would give them a second chance since they did cut us off of a lux before the 20 turn limit was up.