Babylon's Deity Settlers

Here is the recap of my game.
Babylon's Deity Settlers

After clicking on the link and you are taken to the first page and read it, just hit the 'next' button that is on top to progress through the pages. I put this recap on the same website as an article I wrote a year ago (when I was a regent level player-so don't bug me with any debates about those tips/strategies here), so you can ignore the links to the left unless you are really curious.

It is not as detailed and 'poetic' as Zachriel's recap. I did not plan on doing the website while I was playing and that is why I don't have as good of a recap as him. If I do any recaps in the future I will take more screenshots while playing and take more detailed notes. I'm also getting some help/advice for using HTML so future summaries will be more professional looking/neat. The opening moves for what I did in my capital is extremely well detailed.

My recap will show you a different way of playing the same game and give you some valuable tips, especially with one strategy of what to do with the capital and micromanagement of the capital for the first couple thousand years. And note that this strategy may not be the best move on all maps and situations. There really isn't many strategies that will apply to all maps and situations. You should learn to adapt and change strategies based on map size/starting terrain/how much room you have to expand/what terrain you have for other cities/opponents/barbarian activity and several other variables that can literally 'make or break' any specific strategy.

For some screenshots I wanted to write more details but there is a limit for words for each 'photo', so if you have any more questions about any certain screenshot, please ask them in this thread and I can more fully explain them.

Disclaimer: Since I did not take the screenshots while playing, I had to 're-create' many of the screenshots by loading previous saves and by replaying the start. I'm saying this in case you happen to find any discrepancies in the screenshots to what I may have posted in the spoiler thread. I am not submitting for a couple of reasons. One reason is so that no one has to try and scrutinize my website to the spoiler thread and try to (or think) that by 're-creating' the screenshots and positions that I cheated or had been re-loading when playing the game the first time-so you don't have to worry about me beating you . The other reason is because I spent so much of the late game putzing around (wasting time, score, etc.) because I wanted to engage in some modern warfare. It has been SO LONG since I've seen the AI with bombers, battleships, and jet fighters. I've been doing the 'horseman stomp' for way too long. I didn't want to submit a game in a competive atmosphere, like the GOTM where I was just goofing around for the last 30-50 turns. Maybe I do need to learn to not care about ranking, but I still have the line of thinking that I should only let people see the score from my very best attempt. It was my best attempt up until the modern era.

Thanks for your write up! I can see (the many places) where I went wrong in GOTM14.

I've always loved your pearls of wisdom spattered about the forums. Having pictures to backup your thought process was extremely helpful.

I also thought your slide show format did a great job getting your point across. Sure your writeup wasn't as graphic intensive as Zachriel's but they have different intents, I think. While "I, Hammerabi" was told as an involving story, your site was much more of a teaching tool. Thanks!

Nice job Bam!

Reaaly helps alot , your efforts are definately appreciated.

Your great site just goes to show how critical the early game really is. I am trying to improve my showing in Emperor and Deity games and your review of GOTM 14 is just the ticket to help me out. I have come to realize just how important it is to make those good decisions in the early game. A little thought, instead of just plowing ahead, makes such a difference. I hope you will do it again next month.

excellent job bamspeedy!! this is a fantastic recap! seeing what you did vs. what i did in gotm14 is very helpful. i learned a lot. thank you! hope you do it again this month.

takeo

Bamspeedy, naturally I'm joining the other posters in their appreciation on your great recap! You opened my eyes regarding de start of the game (settler factory) and other important decisions.

Excellent report. The details on how to manage rapid expansion are effective and well written. One comment: There's nothing wrong with size 7 as long as your settler completes on the same turn the city grows to 7. It's only any turns after that that food would be wasted. I know you know this, just clarifying the explanation.

Now... if you could give a similar blow by blow account for how you conduct your first war -- buildup, number and position of units, offensives, AI counterattacks, when and why and how long you pause and how many units you expect to need at each stage, and especially how the AI responds and what you do about that... Well, it would be a lot more work than this writeup, but would surely draw at least as much interest. Anyone can run an early war on lower settings. Pulling it off on Deity is an art form, and Deity GOTM's don't come along often for you to have the chance to detail it. (Maybe too late now, though -- something you might have to plan for and take notes and screens on while you are playing).

Question: if you had the launch wrapped up, why take the diplo win? Why not go for fastest launch? If it was for the modern warfare action, then why not carry that through to a conquest or domination win? Why did you prefer to grab the win method you did on the timing you did?


- Sirian

fantastic guide bam! just one pointer. in the beginning you talked about irrigating the cattle tile. later you said what would have happened if you had mind it (less food). But in 2750bc you would still be in depotism, espesially in deity. so you wwould loss that extra food under depot. you would only see the advantage once you got monachy or republic. am i right here?

you are wrong.

cow on grass is 4 food. Minus one for despotism. That makes 3 food. Irrigate it to make it back up to four food.

What strikes me is that in this GOTM what happened on the other continent was so different in each instance. In my game, Japan was quickly pummeled and later wiped out by its neighbours. China and especially India became science powerhouses, I had trouble keeping up until almost the very end and there was no way I could get any of the Middle Ages wonders.
This while my own start resulted in a similar position as yours (I got one extra central town to monopolize the Incense while allowing Persia to the grassland in the south).
Persia was faster in my game than in yours, probably because they didn't take the time to build the Pyramids (bah!).

Sirian- Well, when I said I could have launched a long time ago, I meant I could have, had I stayed in democracy (and at peace) and continuing to learn techs every 6 turns or so. Instead I had gone to Monarchy and was learning techs every 15 turns or longer. I had not gotton to MA (synthetic fibers) yet (nobody did, actually). So it's not like I was holding off on just building 1 part, because I still needed to get that last tech for some of the parts (and with pre-building I could have completed the part right after or the same turn as getting the tech). Though I didn't use MA, I was fighting with tanks verses Mech Infantry. I'm sure you know how successful that was....War of attrition, yes. But since I had the production advantage now, I was actually winning, but it would take time.

I think the main reason I took the diplo victory was because I wanted to show the 'irony' in me having such a terrible reputation, but still pulling off a diplomatic victory. I was not concerned at all in fastest spaceship or any medals or rankings. My first deity win, all I cared about was winning, not score. You know as well as I do when a game 'is in the bag' and there isn't too much you could do to lose the game. I took that opportunity to be goofing around with my tanks and planes, but when the AI starts building a few parts and makes you get just a little nervous (like what if I have some key resources deplete on me at the most inconvenient time, or they nuke me), then it's time to just hurry up and end the game.

Troops for war with Persia: Well, I dont' have the figures of course, but I'm sure my stats would look similar to Zachriel's. I didn't have as many swordsmen as him at the start, but I saw probably the same % of casualties. I think I was going to start with 10 swordsmen charging at Gordium, but I delayed it a couple turns so some other swordsmen could join the 'stack of doom' (as I saved up more money to upgrade more warriors) and get me a stack of 15. Most cities had 2 warriors in it, that could be upgraded when needed (and they were needed rather early). Almost all swordsmen were ones that had been upgraded from warriors. But I had EVERY city building swordsmen for reinforcements. The 1-shield cities actually became 3-shield cities by whipping a swordsmen every 10 turns. The floodplain cities made great whipping cities. Because of the granary, in a very short time after the expansion phase the capital was producing 10 shields/turn, so that is 1 warrior/turn or 1 swordsmen every 3 turns. The area around my capital had the most overlapping of tiles and those cities with low corruption due to proximity to the capital produced most of my swordsmen after the original upgraded stack of doom.

I of course took Gordium with not much trouble at all. But as I was progressing towards Susa was when I received the wrath of Persia's early military advantage. The stack that headed towards Susa mainly just absorbed the attacks. Injured units headed back to Gordium to heal, healthy units progressed forward if there was sufficient numbers. I had whipped a couple spearman, but the rest was purely swordsmen. Re-inforcements would catch up to the stack and then I eventually would have a large enough stack (at least 5) to attack the city/spearmen. Spending a few turns absorbing his attacks depleted him of all his starting offensive units. At the start I was worried about defending the floodplain cities, but as it became evident Persia wasn't going to send any units across the desert, I left these cities undefended, and sent the defenders into action.

I had some regulars from warriors that were built before the barracks, but every city got a barracks pretty early, so later units were all veterans. I could whip a barracks while cities were at size 3. Build 1 shield towards a spearman, whip it, but then change production to barracks and whip again the same turn. Saves you the time having to wait until the city reaches size 4. I know you know that, Sirian, but other players may not have known that.

The other problem was the iron city. In fact, I saw almost more troops there then I saw in the Susa assault. On one turn there were at least 7 Persia troops swarming towards the Iron city from all different directions. But the AI doesn't know how to stack the units together, so I could pick off the units individually that were on the low-defense tiles.

I didn't build any bowman until much later in the game. When I got my golden age, I ended up getting Monarchy on the next turn, so I held a revolution (religious rules). Then I was stuck trying to decide what to do with my capital. It was now producing 20 shields/turn. Do I build 1 bowman/turn, or a swordsmen every 2 turns (essentially 'wasting' 10 shields/2 turns). I didn't need the defense and swordsmen offered the same defense, but with more offense. I built some bowmen, then just switched to swordsmen. This may not have been the best move (because of the waste), but bowman are terrible IMHO.

I would sign peace, ASAP usually. A few times I enjoyed 1 or 2 full turns at peace. I sign peace, then the Persians would start heading back home. There would always be a Persia unit in my territory somewhere that I could demand he leave. He declares war, but it's my turn, so I have the initiative. I'm sure you may consider this an exploit, but to each his own.

This was your first Deity win? Congrats.

I'm working on my own report now. I went very screen-intensive, probably take me all weekend to crop and upload the shots and write the report.

I see what you mean now about the launch. And still 300 tiles from domination with nukes flying, now I understand. Thanks for the insights into your first war, too.


- Sirian

Originally posted by ControlFreak
Sure your writeup wasn't as graphic intensive as Zachriel's but they have different intents, I think. While "I, Hammerabi" was told as an involving story, your site was much more of a teaching tool. Thanks!

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Absolutely! I learned a lot, and plan to reread it. Thanks a lot Bamspeedy.

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Here is the recap of my game. . . .
Disclaimer: Since I did not take the screenshots while playing, I had to 're-create' many of the screenshots by loading previous saves and by replaying the start.

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What I generally do is save at the end of the turn. This preserves the maximum amount of information and virtually eliminates discrepancies.

Farting Bob- Hygro is correct. The despot penalty does confuse the situations.

Both wheat and cattle (+2 food) will produce 4 food if it is on grassland before the despot penalty (3 food after the penalty)and before you irrigate them (back up to 4 food after irrigating).

Wheat and cattle will see the benefit of irrigating while in despot whether the resources are on plains or grassland. So you usually want to irrigate these, unless you are severely lacking in shield production squares (you have no bonus grassland or just 1 of them, floodplains, etc.). Mining a cattle on plains is one thing that won't do any good in despot (except during a golden age), so you will be forced to irrigate that.

Wines you have to mine if it is on plains. If wines are on grassland you will see a benefit of just 1 extra food if you irrigate, but since it produces 0 shields, it may be better to mine (this depends on surrounding terrain for whether you really need that 1 extra food, or the extra shield).

If irrigating a tile or two will get me producing +4 food/turn that doubles my growth over someone producing +2 food, so I have the effects of a granary without having to build one, if you look at it from one perspective.

Zachriel- Do you save just about every turn? I saved a few times, but since I didn't really plan on making the site until afterwards I didn't have saves available for some key events (but I had saves 'close' to some of those events). Some events I didn't really realize they were very important until the end of the game when I looked back at what helped me win the game. Now that I know more what events I should be looking for (and want to write about in a summary), I have a better idea of when I should save.

Hey, I guess this means your title of Diety is now true, huh. It's neat how you never changed the title under your name.

Originally posted by Bamspeedy


Zachriel- Do you save just about every turn?

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Yes, ctrl-s at the end of most every turn. That way I can examine the game later in detail. I do take a few screenshots during the game, trying to catch a shot of the elusive Great Leader.

Didn't get a single Great Leader in I, Hammurabi. Not one.

Good info.

I read it through and found it very interesting. I never pay too much attention to the little things in the game (such as moving citizens around for max production) but when I read it again in more detail, I'll try doing that.

Hbdragon- Well, I like using the governors, but lately I've been manually controlling the citizens at the start (while I'm running my settler factory). As you can see, the capital did need alot of special attention. I was manually controlling all the other cities, but then shortly after I had disorder in a floodplain city I turned the governors on in all cities but the capital. Once the capital was done producing settlers, I turned the governor on in the capital also.

Checking every city, every turn is too much of a hassle for me. Because if I'm going to be checking the cities for disorder (use the F1 screen), I feel like I should be checking the cities for efficiency also. If you're not checking for efficiency, the governor will be better (I've seen many games from newbies where the governor would do a much better job at tile assignments). And if you frequently have disorder, you're losing all the benefits that micromanaging gives you, and actually falling further behind if you have disorder often enough.

The governor isn't as bad now, as the unpatched version of Civ3 (where it got it's horrible rep). It of course is not as smart as a human, but it does not know what the human's goals are. Corruption also effects the usefulness of micromanaging. And I want games to take me a couple of days, not a couple of weeks.

As the game progresses, micromanaging accounts for less of a % of waste/how the outcome of the game will be. You still need to check the efficiency of all cities every once in a while. You don't want a city producing 29 shields/turn, because if it is building a 90 shield item, you're effectively 'wasting' 26 shields. Best to try and squeeze 1 more shield out of that city so it has 0 waste. And when a city becomes capped at size 6 (no aqueduct)or 12 (no hospital), the city does not need to be producing any excess food, so micromanage the citizens onto more shield-productive tiles, leaving just enough food to sustain the population. And I micromanage a city that is building a wonder for max production.

If you have the patience to check every city, every turn, then micromanaging is definitely the best route to take. If I was playing a tiny map I would most likely micromanage because of such few cities I would have to keep an eye on.

I enjoyed the writeup. Thanks. I had no idea that such intense micromanagment would be so profitable.

Has anyone though about optimizing worker assignments, like when building rails? You can add a bunch of foreign workers to a stack building rails and still not get over the 1-turn hump. It seems like there is some wasted effort there.

I noticed you mentioned the old whip bootstrap trick. I brought that up about a month ago for discussion as an exploit, but nobody seemed to care. It still seems like cheating a bit, but I use it all the time now.

Thanks alamo.

For optimizing worker assignments you may want to read Cracker's articles in the Strategy Articles Forum titled "Improving Your Opening Play Sequences" and "Forestry Operations". Those are the only articles I know of that go into details about worker/slave moves.

The main point of my recap was to show how valuable food and a granary can be early in the game. I used to be one of those people who thought it was foolish to build a granary instead of a settler. Then I saw some posts by Cartouche Bee and some others in a thread talk about how food is usually a limited factor in settler production, and began experimenting with them. A granary is still not always the best option on every map (like tiny maps and some small maps, or crowded ones, and if there is a high-food area nearby then sending a settler there first to get that city set up right away is usually better). Some players (like I used to do) would always mine a cow on grassland and focus on the short-term of max production/tile. Sometimes mining a cow on grassland will still be the better choice, it all depends on surrounding terrain. And I wanted to show how valuable the luxury rate can be early in the game if it is needed.

The 'whip bootstrap trick' as you like to call it. Well, it still cost me 2 population points to whip the barracks. The only thing is I could do it at size 3 instead of 4. I don't really consider it an exploit since it costs me the same population points as anyone else.
I don't like using the whip, but in those cities that are high-corrupt while you are in despotism dont' do much good anyways. If I didn't have the 3 luxuries I probably wouldn't have whipped much at all because of dealing with happiness.

I'll go find that post from Cartouche Bee about food and settler production and post it here.

It all depend on the situation.

The best you can hope for is a situation where you can produce 5 extra food per turn and have a granary. Assuming that there is enough shield production you can pop a settler every 4 turns. You need either a haystack on a flood plain or two bonus squares (haystack, cattle, game, floodplain) to have a shot at this.

The next best situation is producing 4 extra food with granary then you can only produce a settler every 6 turns.

The next best situation is producing 5 extra food then you can only produce a settler every 8 turns.
The next best situation is producing 3 extra food with granary then you can only produce a settler every 8 turns.

The next best situation is producing 4 extra food then you can only produce a settler every 10 turns.
The next best situation is producing 2 extra food with granary then you can only produce a settler every 10 turns.

The next best situation is producing 3 extra food then you can only produce a settler every 14 turns.

The next best situation is producing 2 extra food then you can only produce a settler every 20 turns.

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