Quick poll: Proposed build queue changes for the Monday, Jan.7 turn chat!

Proposed build queues:

There was not enough time scheduled between the end of the Saturday, Jan 4 chat and start of the Monday, Jan 7 chat to have a 24 hour discussion thread and a 48 hour poll hence this is a quick poll. Changing a build queue can be done via a quick poll per F.4.C.3.a.vi of the CoS. According to F.4.B of the CoS the quorum for the quick poll is 1/3 of the active census. According to the Judiciary the current active census is 30 making the quorum for this quick poll 10. Once the quorum is reached this poll will be valid and binding.

The purpose of this poll is to readjust our cities' build queues so that the building of city improvements and military units will be made more efficient. A poll is being used since some of our provinces may remain without governors for another turn chat.

This poll is starting on Sunday, January 5 at 5:47pm (GMT) and will remain open for one day so that the results of the poll will be known before the Monday, Jan. 7 chat.

Relevant discussion threads:

What preparations do we need for the next war?
Demographics - Domestic Department.
How about peace for a change?
A quick war against the Russians.
Info poll: What percentage of our production should we devote to our military?
Plan A: Accept or Denounce. II.

Proposed build queues (changes are in bold):

Kagoshima: temple (9), market (20) (29 turns)
Tarkingrad: worker (8), worker (10) (18 turns)
Valhalla: market (5), barracks (3), musket (7), musket (7), musket (7) (29 turns)
Tlaxcala: knight (10), knight (14), knight (14) (38 turns)
Octavinium: market (4), knight (8), knight (8), knight (8) (28 turns)
Tokyo: temple (5), university (15) (20 turns)
Dapperdan: harbor (18), university (50) (68 turns)
Nocsfiedera: worker (6), granary (60) (66 turns)
Bremershaven: knight (5), knight (5), musket (4), musket (4), musket (4), musket (4), musket (4), musket (4) (34 turns)
Kyoto: market (1), knight (7), musket (6), musket (6) (20 turns)
Naerva: [/b]musket (7), musket (7), musket (7)[/b] (21 turns)
Civanatoria: temple (16), aqueduct (34) (50 turns)
The Burrow: cathedral (13), musket (6), musket (6), musket (6) (31 turns)
Kells: barracks (3), musket (7), musket (7), musket (7) (24 turns)
Plexenburg: temple (9), aqueduct (17) (26 turns)
Bavaria: musket (7), musket (7), musket (7) (21 turns)
Pensacola: market (17), aqueduct (20) (37 turns)
Kukhaff: knight (6), knight (10), knight (10) (26 turns)
Nara: knight (8), knight (10), knight (10) (26 turns)
Zorgonzolia: market (74) (74 turns)
New Flacon?s Nest: knight (7), knight (12), knight (12) (31 turns)
Morgana: university (3), knight (10), knight (10), knight (10) (33 turns)

Notes: No other cities would need to have military units in their queues for the next 30 turns.

Please vote yes if you want these build queues implemented at the start of the Monday, Jan 7 turn chat.
Please vote no if you do not want these build build queues implemented at the start of the Monday, Jan 7 turn chat.
Please vote abtain if you cannot bring yourself to vote yes or no.

I am against taking power away from the govenors. They were elected to do this type of thing. The PEOPLE elected them, so stop taking away their power!

I am against this queue. The reason is simple, It relates to the Plan A idea that would hurt our infrastructure. I would agree with Goonie, The Govenors has the power to establish build queues (Unless the Domestic Department controlls certan cities )

I dont understand why this poll has less votes than the re-vised plan A poll...

Don't worry about this anymore, donsig. It turns out that everything Fionn said in the negotiations was a lie. I gave him what he had asked for and worked with him on his "building", but now he is not only NOT supporting the plan he helped put together with the President and I, he is trashing that very plan. Let these great leaders do their own work and send Fanatika down in flames. We deserve it.

He is supporting it CYC. He cant help it if others vote against it.

donsig:
Octavinium only has 4 turns left of its Marketplace and I think it is wisest to construct it first - to gain more citizens and gold and production. Then I will gladly build some military units in it.

But Zorgonzolia on the other hand has 1 production. It is not ready for a market. It needs culture (which it has none of) and a courthouse for more production.

I am always ready to hear new ideas. And I would like to know why you think Zorgonzola should produce a Marketplace and not Octavinium?

Cheetah, Governor of Rhineland

I am against this poll on a couple of ground:

1. That's almost 40 units! 40gpt that we lose! It gives us 60gpt for treaties, and techs. Techs aren't getting any cheaper, and unless we have something to sell, we'll be paying in cash.

2. I see a couple of markets and an aquaduct, but we need more growth! True, we are going to get some gems hooked up, but I'd like to see more markets for more income, and acquaducts for 2 reasons:

a. Size 7+ cities give an additional 2 support. We have 9 cities (9 out of 49! 18% are cities. I would like that number to be at 50% or more before we start any wars. We only have ONE size 12 city. Other nations have on average about 4 size 12 cities, with many more cities than we do. They have a better war economy, so they can support more units.

b. Higher production and commerce. If we're stuck at size 6, we're wasting our production in the other 14 tiles within the city radius!

3. Like Goonie said, build queues are for governors to decide, granted with guidence from domestic and military,

4. If I read the laws correctly, wouldn't build queues fall into long term decisions, like alliences? (which is what quick polls shouldn't do)...

5. There's already a quick poll, which would be conflicting...

What in gods green earth do YOU think your doing donsig? Are you trying to go around me and the governors? I call for a judicial review of this poll and if we could id have you PI'd for going against the governors wishes who do not want plan a

It matters not whether I agree with the changes or not Donsig, it is not your job to decide on build queues.

Originally posted by Goonie
I am against taking power away from the govenors. They were elected to do this type of thing. The PEOPLE elected them, so stop taking away their power!

Click to expand...

You are so right, we do elect governors to do this sort of thing only they haven't been doing it!

By posting this poll I take nothing away from the governors for they are free to post their own polls.

1. The governors HAVE been posting polls (it's just that not every province has a governor yet).

2. I bet you if the governors were to make a queue one unit off, you'll go on your usual antics about governors (and 40J) not listening to the polls... (of which this is so far defeated).

Originally posted by CivGeneral
I am against this queue. The reason is simple, It relates to the Plan A idea that would hurt our infrastructure. I would agree with Goonie, The Govenors has the power to establish build queues (Unless the Domestic Department controlls certan cities )

Click to expand...

According to our CoL:

A governor organizes the production (building queues) of the cities in a province.

Organizing means:

In the context of a leader's duties, this includes suggesting a plan, discussing it and passing instructions on to the Designated Player.

According to our consitution Elected officials must plan and act according to the will of the people.

We do not elect governors (or any leader) to make decisions for us. We elect them to carry out our wishes. Unfortunately many that get into office seem to forget this and set about doing things their own way rather than finding out what the citizen's want and then doing what it takes to implement the will of the people.

Originally posted by Cheetah
donsig:
Octavinium only has 4 turns left of its Marketplace and I think it is wisest to construct it first - to gain more citizens and gold and production. Then I will gladly build some military units in it.

But Zorgonzolia on the other hand has 1 production. It is not ready for a market. It needs culture (which it has none of) and a courthouse for more production.

I am always ready to hear new ideas. And I would like to know why you think Zorgonzola should produce a Marketplace and not Octavinium?

Cheetah, Governor of Rhineland

Click to expand...

I do think Octavinium should finsih the market place - it is in the queue I proposed. Please note that in the proposed queues if the text is not in bold then that is what is already in the queue. My proposal for Octavinium is that it finsih the market and then produce 3 knights.

As for Zorgonzolia, it is a very large city that will grow to size 12 very fast. it already has unhappiness problems. It needs a market as soon as possible for help make it's citizens content. At size nine it currently produces one good shield per turn. We should dip into our treasury in th near future and rush the market there.

2 words

Informational Poll

Originally posted by Chieftess

Click to expand...

1. That's almost 40 units! 40gpt that we lose! It gives us 60gpt for treaties, and techs. Techs aren't getting any cheaper, and unless we have something to sell, we'll be paying in cash.

You can continue to look at it that way Chieftess or you can try looking at this way: these queues give us 40 units with which to strike Russia and protect ourselves while doing so. From Russia we can gain more cites near our FP that will not only be productive but will help to support these 40 units. From Russia we can gain a domestic supply of silk to help keep our people happy. From Russia we could very well get techs at the peace table thus saving our gold to buy other things.

2. I see a couple of markets and an aquaduct, but we need more growth! True, we are going to get some gems hooked up, but I'd like to see more markets for more income, and acquaducts for 2 reasons:

a. Size 7+ cities give an additional 2 support. We have 9 cities (9 out of 49! 18% are cities. I would like that number to be at 50% or more before we start any wars. We only have ONE size 12 city. Other nations have on average about 4 size 12 cities, with many more cities than we do. They have a better war economy, so they can support more units.

b. Higher production and commerce. If we're stuck at size 6, we're wasting our production in the other 14 tiles within the city radius!

Please remember that these proposals do not include all our our cities! There are 27 cities not in the proposal that will not be making any military units whatever - they will be making markets and aqueducts - and libraries and temples and workers and universities.

We cannot wait until we have all our cities just right before our next war. We must strike Russia soon in order to take advantage of the situation presented to us. We must prepare for that war now!

3. Like Goonie said, build queues are for governors to decide, granted with guidence from domestic and military

No, Chieftess, build queues are not for governors (nor domestic nor military) to decide. It is up to the citizens to decide upon the build queues.

4. If I read the laws correctly, wouldn't build queues fall into long term decisions, like alliences? (which is what quick polls shouldn't do)...

Read 'em again Chieftess. I listed the appropriate sections of the CoS in the first post. Changing a build queue is given as a specific example of something a quick poll can be used for.

5. There's already a quick poll, which would be conflicting...

Then it would be up to the appropriate leader or the DP to resolve the conflicting polls.

Russia? Who said we were attacking Russia? Last I saw, popular opinion was for America, then Babylon. Russia was just an afterthought.

Originally posted by Chieftess
1. The governors HAVE been posting polls (it's just that not every province has a governor yet).

2. I bet you if the governors were to make a queue one unit off, you'll go on your usual antics about governors (and 40J) not listening to the polls... (of which this is so far defeated).

Click to expand...

Where are the polls Cheiftess? Please give me some links because I've missed them all!

Antics? You call pointing out ignored polls antics?

It is clear that there is a strong faction for peace and a strong faction for war. What we should do is stop bickering and go our seperate ways. Those who want peace should play their demo game and those who want war should play their demo game. When it's all over the two sides can compare notes to see if either actually won the game.

Wow Donsig, there is a great idea how about instead of splitting the game and alienating everyone, you agree that concessions MUST be made whether you like them or not. Those who you argue with make concessions whether they like them or not. Your rigid attitude to this does nothing but put up walls between you and those you argue against.

Originally posted by donsig

3. Like Goonie said, build queues are for governors to decide, granted with guidence from domestic and military

No, Chieftess, build queues are not for governors (nor domestic nor military) to decide. It is up to the citizens to decide upon the build queues.

Click to expand...

Yet again you are wrong Donsig. Governors DO control the provincal build queues and do not have to do so according to the citizens. I point out:
A governor organizes the production (building queues) of the cities in a province. Legislative section. part C

I didnt see according to the will of the citizenry in the laws.