Domestic Discussion: Pikemen - Disband or Upgrade?

Donovan Zoi · Jan 30, 2003

I know what some of you are saying already......

Disband, are you nuts?? :eek:

While that may very well be the case, the fact remains that our outdated defenses will cost a mint to upgrade. Here is how we stand at 1130 AD:

47 pikemen: cost to upgrade each - 100g
31 muskets: cost to upgrade each - 40g
20 riflemen: cost to upgrade each - 0g

A chance to cash in some production points to help our struggling production cities?

(ahem)priceless.

My apologies to those who didn't see that one coming, but it is true in more ways than one. Uprgrading all of our pikemen will cost a total of 4700g! By the time we are able to pay for that, infantry will probably be on the way and we will find ourselves in the same boat. I do recommend upgrading our muskets for the more reasonable price, however.

In my experience, the pikemen will probably cash in for 6-7 production points but could be very useful for limiting the rush cost of libraries for our new lands in former India. That would save 24-28g rush cost for each pikeman used. Of course we would not do this all at once, but as we were able to afford musket upgrades and build new rifles.

Please let me know what you think.

Cheetah · Jan 30, 2003

I support the idea. We can't afford to upgrade all our pikemen, and they do cost us upkeep.

Falcon02 · Jan 30, 2003

I think most should be Disbanded, but as a gradual replacement of Rifles... remember they are still affective Police, and provide "some" protection... if not simply a "meat sheild."

jorge_roberto · Jan 30, 2003

I would upgrade Veteran Pikemen and disband Normal Units.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 30, 2003

Oh, yeah, right, someone ELSE got Leonardo's Workshop . . .

Probably a good idea, then.

Goonie · Jan 30, 2003

I think we should disband half. Where and what to build? Any city that needs a marketplace!

Stuck_as_a_Mac · Jan 30, 2003

We cant go disband them all at once, thats for sure. We need to gradually disband them. Like have some larger cities produce riflemen for those cities who cant afford to make them, send them there, and then send the pikes up to the city where the rifle came from to return used shields.

Chieftess · Jan 30, 2003

If we DO disband, it should be to help cities build an improvement, like a marketplace or university.

Donovan Zoi · Jan 30, 2003

I still think the best way to use the first wave of disbands would be to shrink rush costs for libraries in New India. If we don't culturally claim that area fast, China and the Iroquois will give us another Cleveland or two. Not to worry, markets this term are a high priority to me.

I like jorge_roberto's idea on mmmmaybe keeping some veteran pikes -- if not for upgrade, then to have defend our innermost cities. I forgot to include that idea in my first post.

donsig · Jan 30, 2003

I am against disbanding the pikes. The small amount of shields we gain and the little gold we save will weaken our army. Our core cities are in no position to crank out riflemen to replace these units. Kuhkaff is committed to the military academy, Bavaria is just now building a university while the SW province cities still need markets. We will be much better off using our gold to modernize these units.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 30, 2003

For a hundred gold a pop, we could be rushing buildings instead of recycling old soldiers.

donsig · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by Feodor Ardent
For a hundred gold a pop, we could be rushing buildings instead of recycling old soldiers.

We're pulling in 145gpt. We could upgrade one unit every two turns and use less than half our income. There is no pressing need to upgrade them all right now. Disbanding them, even a few per turn would require our most productive cities to build only riflemen for quite awhile. As I said earlier, those cities have been carrying the weight of our military unit producing and could use a break to build some infrastructure of their own.

Octavian X · Jan 30, 2003

I would rather do this as a gradual thing. Build a rifle, disband a pike. That way, we can replace some regular pikes with veteran rifles.

Zarn · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by Octavian X
I would rather do this as a gradual thing. Build a rifle, disband a pike. That way, we can replace some regular pikes with veteran rifles.

Amen, brother. We can't weaken the military at the same time. It could make us weak enough for an easy invasion.

Goonie · Jan 30, 2003

We really should seperate religion and state.

Donovan Zoi · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by donsig
I am against disbanding the pikes. The small amount of shields we gain and the little gold we save will weaken our army. Our core cities are in no position to crank out riflemen to replace these units. Kuhkaff is committed to the military academy, Bavaria is just now building a university while the SW province cities still need markets. We will be much better off using our gold to modernize these units.

donsig, that is why I said in the first post that it would be gradual. As military deputy for the last 2 terms, I know the importance of keeping a strong defense and would propose nothing to jeapordize that.

For the record, let me state that markets are a priority for the Domestic Office this term. The money we save on pike upgrades will allow us to rush more markets. Cashing in the occasional pike for shields will only help us to that effect.

If we want to strengthen our defense, let's periodically upgrade the 31 muskets we have for 40g apiece while building rifles in moderation.

The key number here is 4700g. Why waste the spending power of our new markets that way?

Feodor Ardent · Jan 31, 2003

If we want to strengthen our defense, let's periodically upgrade the 31 muskets we have for 40g apiece while building rifles in moderation.

That seems clear enough. If we already have 31 muskets to upgrade, plus the dozen or so rifles I see floating around the map, that should be enough to secure our security for awhile, particularly since we've blocked out the trespassers.

Not wanting to nag, but are we not, at some point, going to move a few of these new rifles to the western frontier? All of our captured cities are being held down by cav units and they can't be moved towards Babylon because there are no rifles to replace them as garrisons.

Cheetah · Jan 31, 2003

So then noone has a hard time with this one?

1. Move pikemen to Indian province. Set some for defence, and disband some to get libraries going.
2. Upgrade Musketmen gradualy.
3. Disband more pikemen mostly for Marketplaces.
4. Those Pikemen that we keep will guard our core cities and function as police.

Feodor Ardent · Jan 31, 2003

1. Move pikemen to Indian province. Set some for defence, and disband some to get libraries going.

2. Upgrade Musketmen gradualy.

3. Disband more pikemen mostly for Marketplaces.

4. Those Pikemen that we keep will guard our core cities and function as police.

Now that's a plan! You have all the support I can muster. Which I think means me and possibly . . . no one else.

Feodor
(Dwelling on the edge of a political netherworld overlooking the sleet-drench roofs of Bavaria.)

I_am_sin7 · Feb 1, 2003

I think its a good idea and offer my support..
However that aint much

The Indian Province has just been captured right?
So dump some their to disband and help build or to defend and police.

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