Galleass Middle Ages Sailing Warship?

Ok, I've been thinking that a naval warship between the Galley and Galleon has been needed for a long time. I really was hoping to see a Dromon or some kind of awesome Trireme, but none have come out of the wonderful unit creators around here.

Recently I just happen to think that if I combine the Caravel with the Galley I could probably come up with a warship that turned the tide against the Ottoman fleet in early Middle Ages Europe: the Galleass.

"A compromise between the oared galley and the galleon, in which oars were retained to provide free movement irrespective of the direction of the wind although masts and sails were also carried. In order to accommodate the masts and rigging, galleasses had to be built with a greater beam and deeper draught than the galley. They were lateen rigged on two or three masts, but suffered from the inevitable defects of compromise, being unable to carry the more effective square rig of the sailing ship because of the modified galley hull form and also, for the same reason, being unable to retain the speed and maneuverability of the true galley."

Now, this is LOOSELY based on reality, just like all Civ3 units, so it's not going to be perfect. Pointers are welcome, but I'm not going to do a major overhaul. This is actually just for my personal mod, but I thought I'd show the rest of ya.

Without further ado:



Now, on the attack animation, should I have cannon or arrows or a combination of both?

Didn't ships of the time actually use catapults? Looks nice, btw

Wow, Zulu, it's really great to get a compliment out of you. I was actually thinking about putting in my post (teasingly, of course) that I didn't want you to respond. But that's cool.

You're probably absolutely right about the catapult. I'm not sure how I would show that though. That's actually an excellent idea. It'd actually fit in very well to the time line. The Galley fires arrows, the Galleass would fire catapult, and the Galleon fires cannon.

Very cool.

Thanks Zulu.

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken Now, this is LOOSELY based on reality, just like all Civ3 units, so it's not going to be perfect. Pointers are welcome, but I'm not going to do a major overhaul. This is actually just for my personal mod, but I thought I'd show the rest of ya.

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Yes, but you will let us have it when you're finished? I mean, just showing us would be ever so mean!

Anyway, it looks fine as it is - we could all come up with accurately detailed real life pictures of galleasses and make endless suggestions etc etc, but on the criteria you've set (loosely based on reality), it's splendid.

Now, on the attack animation, should I have cannon or arrows or a combination of both?

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If you want it as a step between galley and galleon, probably arrows. But there's a reasonable argument for two versions: an early one with arrows (low A/D stats) and a later one with cannon (slightly better A/D). Forward firing cannon, of course - the rowers would get in the way of a broadside!

Originally posted by Illustrious
Yes, but you will let us have it when you're finished? I mean, just showing us would be ever so mean!

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Oh, of course!!

Forward firing cannon, of course - the rowers would get in the way of a broadside!

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Excellent suggestion!

very nice!

Originally posted by Kal-el
very nice!

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Ha, ha! I was waiting for you to chime in, Kal-el. Would you be able to use it in your DyP mod?

I am sure I could find a place for it.

Originally posted by zulu9812
Didn't ships of the time actually use catapults? Looks nice, btw

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Cannons, as at Lepanto (1571 CE). Galleas evolved from the Byzantine dromon, and were part of the Spanish Armada; lasted in service in the Med well into the following century --

http://cma.soton.ac.uk/HistShip/shlect91.htm

-Oz

PS -- Oh, & Colonel Kraken --

YAY!!

-O

Nice, i´ve been missing this kind a ship for some time.

Great ship! Is it about the same size as a Caravel?

Looks nice!
The attack could be either catapult or ballista fire.

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Great ship! Is it about the same size as a Caravel?

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More like a galleon --

From http://enterprise.is.tcu.edu/~rwoodward/thalassa.htm

"One approach to the defense of the Spanish trade was to develop larger ships that could carry both more cargo and armament. Alvaro de Bazán was the first Seville merchants to employ the larger Galeón in the American trade, developing galleons patterned after the Genoese and Venetian galleas or galeaza, which he began to build in February 1550. "

3 cannon seem to be about standard. BTW I have found references of this style of ship being used in the Baltic up until the 1760s!

-Oz

Originally posted by ozymandias


More like a galleon --

BTW I have found references of this style of ship being used in the Baltic up until the 1760s!

-Oz

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You're quite right, Oz! If any of you have ever played Europa Universalis, you'll know all about this type of ship.

As far as the size, even though it should be about the size of a Galleon, in-game, it'll be more the size of the Caravel. However, for game purposes, this will fit in very nicely, simply because I think it's nice to see that the more powerful the unit are bigger than the weaker units. This ship would be weaker than a Galleon.

I'm surely glad all of you like it, and I'm thankful for your comments. As you can see, the default animation is complete. I will next work on the run. The attack and death animations will be difficult. Don't know how long it'll take, but it's fun.

Nice.

Should be a coastal/sea ship for they were used mostly in "inner seas" such as Baltic and Med.

I would make it the same or just a bit stronger than the galleon (which is a transport ship rather than a fighting one). Just my opinion. Nice to have a parallel to early dhow in Europe.

Thanks, Lou. Actually, the Galleon was used heavily as a warship and because of its more advanced rigging and greater number of broadside cannon, it would have been superior in a ship to ship fight.

That is not to say that it would be that much superior.

how could it be weaker than the galleon without being weaker than the caravel? both ships have the same stats. but this is a nice unit. You can barely notice the front of the galley.

Good question Civanator. The stats are assuming that, like in my personal mod, unit stats have been totally reworked. In this way, it is no problem to have a Galleass stronger than a Caravel but weaker than the Galleon.

Originally posted by Civanator
You can barely notice the front of the galley.

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This brings up a good question. Do you guys think it looks bad keeping the ramming prow on the ship? I assumed that a Galleass would have such a thing. I think I'm going to keep it for my personal mod, but I think it could be removed easily for those who do not like it.

Keep the Ram, warships tactics of this era still largely relied on ramming and boarding as cannon were still fairly primative