Links to other sites: what is CFC's official policy?

I have started this thread in order to head-off another potential riot in the Creation & Customisation Forum.

The situation is this:-
A very new member with only 8 posts asked a very simple question in the Creation & Customisation Forum about how to add new units to PTW. Here is the thread....
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45728
One of the replies was that the best tutorial of how to do this has been written by Kingpin, and can by found at the CDG site here....
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=971
....which is much easier to understand and is more descriptive than the one offered at CFC, which can be found here....
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31576

But now it turns out that a moderator has removed this link, and a message has been put in it's place warning about creating links to other sites.

Now I must admit that the old CFC tutorial that I wrote some time ago was pre PTW, and could do with an update.
However, I have no wish to do this, because:-
First, I am far, Far, FAR too busy creating new units,
Second, someone else has already written an excellent tutorial, but it's at CDG.

Sooooo.....what exactly is the policy at CFC to links to other sites?
(I must admit that I am also guilty of this, as I frequently direct people to this site....
http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm
....as it is an excellent source of information for the creation of ancient & medieval units)

Is it all right to post links to Apolyton, private websites, information websites....but not to CDG?

If this IS the official policy, due to past disagreements, then may I suggest that someone write a better tutorial for how to add new units to PTW, and then post it here at CFC for all to see and use?

Because it really does not seem fair to deny people the information that they have requested, or to use new members as pawns in this battle.

I second this.

I asked a smilar question in this thread, the questions I asked were:

1. Is it okay for me to start a thread in one CFC forum in order to advertise a thread of mine in another CFC forum?

2. Is it okay for me to start a thread in one CFC forum in order to advertise someone else's thread in another CFC forum?

3. Is it okay for me to start a thread in one CFC forum in order to advertise a thread of mine on another forums site?

4. Is it okay for me to start a thread in one CFC forum in order to advertise someone else's thread on another forums site?

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The answers I got were no, no, no and no.

This is the general rule on advertising and other civ site links
"Advertising and solicitations are NOT permitted.
Posting of advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. You are ONLY permitted to advertise your site in your signature or in the "Other Civ-Related Sites" forum if it's a Civ site. The exception to this rule is to inform others of sites that provide a service to benefit them. For example, posting a thread regarding a new free web space provider is acceptable providing there's nothing in it for you except the satisfaction of helping your fellow members."

There are both exceptions and more specific policies not so codified. As I understand the Thunderfall's Civ3 creation and file forums policies, the rule there seems to be that those forum are for files posted and uploaded here, and not for links to files at other sites.

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
This is the general rule on advertising and other civ site links
"Advertising and solicitations are NOT permitted.
Posting of advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. You are ONLY permitted to advertise your site in your signature or in the "Other Civ-Related Sites" forum if it's a Civ site. The exception to this rule is to inform others of sites that provide a service to benefit them. For example, posting a thread regarding a new free web space provider is acceptable providing there's nothing in it for you except the satisfaction of helping your fellow members."

There are both exceptions and more specific policies not so codified. As I understand the Thunderfall's Civ3 creation and file forums policies, the rule there seems to be that those forum are for files posted and uploaded here, and not for links to files at other sites.

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Well then I definetly think Kryten's case should be an exception. I'll quote you on what you just quoted:

The exception to this rule is to inform others of sites that provide a service to benefit them.

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How is this not providing a service that benefits the newbie that Kryten mentioned?

The more specific policy mentioned for those forums, that they are for files posted and uploaded here, controls. CDG links go ONLY in Other civ realated sites forum and in signatures.

Good point WillJ.

Originally posted by zulu9812
I asked a similar question....
The answers I got were no, no, no and no.

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Are all those people who said "no, no, no and no" to Zulu's question seriously telling me that if someone posts a question about "how to use the unit colour palette" or "how to use FLICster", then I am NOT allowed to direct them to an already created thread on this subject!?!

(BTW Zulu, apparently directing me to this thread is also not allowed!)

So are we saying that I am NOT allowed to post this link?…..
http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm
….or if someone asks a question, I am to tell them “yes, I know of somewhere that has just the answer that you want…..but unfortunately I can’t tell you where it is, so I’m afraid tough luck, you’ll have to go without! ”

Isn’t all this a bit ridiculous?

May I offer a simple solution to the site rules to cover this situation:-
"The posting of links for ADVERTISING purposes is not allowed, but links for the passing of INFORMATION will be accepted, providing it is not abused".

How does that sound.

Kryten:

that is a very workable scenario, but once again, in my defence, I WAS NOT ADVERTISING.

the only reason i posted this here is to keep track what is happening. the rest of my posts will be located in "the other thread". i,d post a link but it seems that it is against the "rules" to do so. but you all know where it is.

and thank you all for the terrific support

Originally posted by stainz
Kryten:
that is a very workable scenario, but once again, in my defence, I WAS NOT ADVERTISING.

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Nor was I accusing you of such.
You were passing specifically requested INFORMATION....something totally different.

Originally posted by Kryten
Are all those people who said "no, no, no and no" to Zulu's question seriously telling me that if someone posts a question about "how to use the unit colour palette" or "how to use FLICster", then I am NOT allowed to direct them to an already created thread on this subject!?!

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Keep in mind, that all of zulu's questions were of the form: "Can I start a thread in one CFC forum in order to advertise..." (emphasis mine). These are both important points, to me. You are asking how that applies to a reply with an intent, not to advertise, but to answer a question.

Now the way I read the rules, no distinction is make between starting or replying, but I personally think the latter is less severe and more leeway should be given. As for the intent...

Originally posted by Kryten
May I offer a simple solution to the site rules to cover this situation:-
"The posting of links for ADVERTISING purposes is not allowed, but links for the passing of INFORMATION will be accepted, providing it is not abused".

How does that sound.

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That, I think, is a very sensible way to clarify the rules. All of zulu's questions would still be disallowed, as would answering a query with blatant advertising, but something like stainz' post which spawned this thread would fit in as, IMHO, it should.

However, if the admins disagree, I would like a clarification the other way. That is, remove the emphasis on advertising and such and say flat out that mentioning and linking to other forums is prohibited regardless of intent. I'd really not like to see that happen, but if that is how the rules will be interpreted then they ought to say so flat-out.

Originally posted by Kryten


Nor was I accusing you of such.
You were passing specifically requested INFORMATION....something totally different.

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sorry if it sounded like i insinuated that you were accusing me, this wasn,t what was planned.

Well, don't blame Chieftess or Padma when they issue warnings about linking to external sites. The rule about when to grant exceptions is not 100% clear and requires some judgement.

Anyway, posting a link to another site or forum solely for the purpose of helping a fellow member should be allowed, providing it's not abused.

Thank you for sorting this out Thunderfall.

As we all know, trying to help people's questions would be very, very difficult without the use of links (indeed, that is after all their main purpose).

Soooo.....
Links to help pass information are allowed.
Links that blatantly advertise are not.

That seems to me to be perfectly reasonable.

Originally posted by Kryten
(BTW Zulu, apparently directing me to this thread is also not allowed!)

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Actually, you are - but not if you had started a thread who's sole purpose was to advertise mine. Of course you can link to CFC threads in the course of a thread.

Originally posted by Kryten
So are we saying that I am NOT allowed to post this link?…..
http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm

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That link is different. The "no, no, no and no" answers were to questions concerning forum sites, and again only in the case of a thread started solely to advertise another one.

It seems to me that there are two spins you could put on Stainz's case. One is that his link to the CDG tutorial wasn't needed, since they were already good threads and posts on CFC that would have answered the question (e.g. combining Kryten's 'vanilla' civ tutorial with my short explanation of the ANIM_NAME PTW feature, or even just Tutorial: Adding new civs and UUs in PTW in the Tutorials forum), in other words the mods might have thought Stainz was trying in some way to get CDG to 'compete' with CFC. Another is that it was a rash call by Chieftess, which is a lot more likely...

Well, I'm glad to see my thinking agrees with Thunderfall's in this case:

Anyway, posting a link to another site or forum solely for the purpose of helping a fellow member should be allowed, providing it's not abused.

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And yes, it is often a judgement call. The "advertising" posts I have shut down have been generally threads that start "Hey! Everyone look at this!" and point to another thread or forum. If a post is a reply to someone's question, and it contains language like "so-an-so researched that, and his results can be found here", then I will normally let it go by. Heck, I do it myself.

so... i am to understanding that i wasn,t in the wrong? i had already known that.

Thanks for those two links that I didn't even know existed Zulu.

I shall now go and add....
my short explanation of the ANIM_NAME PTW feature
....and....
Tutorial: Adding new civs and UUs in PTW
....to my old....
Kryten's 'vanilla' civ tutorial

i might add, that i also knew about those threads that zulu posted, but i don,t think it would have been logical to give someone links to half tutorials. specially if they asked for something different.

Kryten:

that would be muchly appreciated if you could make a tutorial for PTW and have it here on CFC. it would hopefully avoid any future dealings with a matter like this.

in other words the mods might have thought stainz was trying in some way to get CDG to 'compete' with CFC.

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well there is not need to worry about this anymore, if that "is" what she was thinking. i,ll stop posting. it,s been nice being here but i guess it,s time to move on. also, i am asking that my user name and account be deleted from CFC user accounts. and please send me a conformation of my request.

well.... all i have left to say is, RUFF.

p.o.e.

Originally posted by stainz
well there is not need to worry about this anymore, if that "is" what she was thinking. i,ll stop posting. it,s been nice being here but i guess it,s time to move on. also, i am asking that my user name and account be deleted from CFC user accounts. and please send me a conformation of my request.

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That just smacks of "Aww, boo-hoo"
Besides, it ain't gonna happen