QSC Scoring change timing

cracker · Apr 11, 2003

This poll is intended to solicit your inputs as to what would be a fair and reasonable schedule for implementing major changes to the QSC scoring process for points that are awarded for technologies.

You inputs here should not be viewed as a democratic voting process because the final implementation will depend on many factors of which this opinion poll will be just one consideration.

The specific details of some of the poll options will be determined in the coming weeks.

planetfall · Apr 11, 2003

I think it would be best if we had time to digest any scoring changes before playing a game with any new scoring method.

-- PF

Shillen · Apr 11, 2003

Personally, no matter which choice it wouldn't make any difference to my qsc's. I don't try to exploit the qsc scoring system to increase my qsc score. I play the qsc the same as I play the rest of the game, with the end victory condition in mind. But I voted to make sure it's well-defined before implementing it. I think it will cause too much confusion and people will get upset if you change it too soon.

Borealis · Apr 11, 2003

I voted for 'implement for QSC-19' option, as I'd like at least a while for the community to digest the scoring changes before they are implemented. The QSC as a learning tool would benefit from seeing all the submissions with that month being played by people with the same information, which would not be the case for this month. Many people have commented that they like seeing trains of thought written out in the logs, whether they have to do specifically for QSC scoring and/or final scoring.

flexo · Apr 11, 2003

I voted #2, wait until game 20. No point in implementing something half finished even thou it might not been set in stone at game 20 at least it should be closing in on new scoreing system 1.0 instead of some early beta.

As Shillen note the scoring system in itselfs means little to me since I don't think about scoring QSC or GOTM points when I play the game. I just play and then it turns out as it turns out. All that matters is that I had fun when I played it.

zagnut · Apr 11, 2003

I think that any changes should be implemented for GOTM 18. Anything that makes the scoring system more sensible or fair should be implemented right away. We have not gone back and recalculated old games based on the Jason System and I don't think we should recalculate old games for QSC. What is done, is done. Let's go on to create a better system for everyone as soon as possible.

RufRydyr · Apr 11, 2003

Wait til QSC20. I'd hate to have played a game under one system and then have it rescored. Wait til it's fully defined and then show the previous scores with what they would be under the new system like you did with the Jason system. Give us time to digest and think about any changes we would make. This is a competition and I for one play for the highest score possible (even though it's not that apparent by looking at my scores).

SirPleb · Apr 11, 2003

I agree with zagnut, change it right away. It might be further refined later on but even a simple change to devalue tech overall would improve it. I don't feel it is wrong to change after GOTM18 has started because (I might be wrong) I think that most players would not change their moves up to 1000BC just to improve QSC score. (What's the point in compromising one's long term strategy to squeeze more out of the 1000BC QSC number?)

Creepster · Apr 11, 2003

I voted to wait until we know what the changes should be. I feel some changes are needed, but I want to think on it before I comment. Everyone should have a chance to think about it and then have their input evaluated.

There are some players who only play the QSC for the score and it is not fair to them to change the scoring after the fact. We are after all 11 days into the challenge, so it is too late for most players to readjust their approach.

What is the rush. We can get it finalized and have everyone understand it within the next 4 weeks. Plenty of time before GOTM 20

tao · Apr 12, 2003

I believe you should strive to play the "best" qsc towards winning the complete game. Optimizing for qsc score by sacrificing global progress is sort of an exploit. An improved scoring system should iMHO be implemented asap.

TedJackson · Apr 12, 2003

I'd prefer to wait until the new system is clearly defined before applying it to new games.

I also think that the new system shouldn't be applied retro-actively.

I'm not sure how many players play only QSC and don't go on to the full GOTM but if this number is significant then perhaps one solution woud be to run the QSC on a different map to GOTM

Ted

Ribannah · Apr 12, 2003

Never change the rules mid-game.

But if you want to change them retroactively, I want a Gold Medal for GOTM#16!

Singularity · Apr 12, 2003

Implement the changes immediately with effect of QSC GOTM18.

The reason for this is to keep the scores of the past the way they where. But still make clear that QSC is supposed to be a pointer to overall strength in your GOTM game(long term strength) and not a race in tech trading and 'milking' the parameters of the QSC score potential.

I know it's hard towards people playing for maxing the score of their QSC based on existing rules(I even did this

), but it's my opinion on the matter.

mad-bax · Apr 14, 2003

The scoring system is not written in tablets of stone. Any improvement can be implemented now, and further improvements can be made as and when. The earlier we get data back to analyse the affect of scoring methodology the quicker we get to an acceptable solution.

I have submitted my QSC for the Celts game, and although there is much about it that I would like to change, it would have nothing to do with the scoring system. Just change it and move on.

Edit: Retroactive changing of scores might be helpful if placed alongside original scores. Awards should be assigned based on the original scoring system used for that game.

Although many people see the QSC as a competition, some don't. A consistent way of evaluating your own change in performance would be useful for those people that don't.

Darkness · Apr 14, 2003

I voted #2, because then at least everybody has a chance to get to know what the changes will mean for your own game...

pterrok · Apr 14, 2003

I bounced up and down over the last few games due to the tech score--some better, some worse. I voted to go with #19 simply because some people DO try to max out their score and it wouldn't be fair to affect them retroactively.

Moonsinger · Apr 14, 2003

I vote for immediate change. Since my QSC score is so low anyway, I have nothing to worry about.

LKendter · Apr 15, 2003

I voted wait to QSC#20.
No matter what, I do submit it as a competion.

I trigger my trading for QSC#18 at 1000BC because of the deadline. It might have been slightly more profitable to wait a few turns, but I had to work with the rules.

If we change the scoring, I think the scoring changes should be dicussed by all. I feel the Pyramids are FAR to strong to QSC since it actually counts as hand-built granies in every city.

Smirk · Apr 16, 2003

I'm all for changing as soon as something is decided. Change it each month if you have too, if you change it now for 18 at least we can quickly get some feedback on how the system has changed instead of waiting an additional month.

On another note it might be an interesting experiement to use both scores. Or if it changes often, do this each month. We'd get a lot of good information in comparing each system and the scores they generate for any game.

I'm sure some of this is alredy done internally, but a retroactive change (wether or not you actually change ranks) would be a useful information device.

JonathanValjean · Apr 20, 2003

I voted for implementation beginning with QSC20-The Spanish. In this way, all involved will have time to adjust to the changes.
Personally, I don't adjust my style of play to score more highly in the QSC (as is obvious by my poor results...), but just attempt to begin as strongly as possible. So, I will be just fine with whenever the changes are implemented. My vote for QSC20 is mainly for those who actually stand a chance of winning the QSC, and having more time to assimilate the changes and to plan accordingly seems fair.

QSC Scoring change timing

At what timing should the changes to the QSC Technology Scoring be implemented?

Implement no changes to the QSC Tech scoring system

Wait until the changes are fully defined and implement for Qsc20-Spanish.

Implement changes beginning with Qsc19-Ottomans even if they are not fully defined by May 1st.

Implement the changes immediately to even effect the scoring of Qsc18-Celts

Implement the changes retroactively to effect the scoring of 16, 17, and 18.

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