Problems with partisans

Der PH · Apr 14, 2003

In my sweet little private mod I inserted several invisible combat units like the partisan (4/2/1, all terrain as roads, available with nationalism) and the spy (2/1/4, all terrain as roads, available with ... guess what!).
I flagged the units as offensive and the AI is doing a great job using them to capture unprotected workers, pillage valuable tile improvements (especially on resources) and all the nasty little things these units are made for.

So far, so good!

The problem is that the AI loves these units a little bit too much and also uses them in main offensive combat in favour of cavalry and tanks, which it builds only very occasionally. The outcome of an attack-2-spy messing with infantry is quite clear and with this lack of real offensive combat units the AI is clearly crippled.

I tried to make these units more expensive than for example cavalry, but this didn't change the AI's behaviour.
I like these units very much, especially because the AI knows how to use them, so I don't want to delete them, but I don't know how to make the AI use cavalry and tanks again.

Anybody an idea what to do?

Yoda Power · Apr 14, 2003

The stats are proberly to high. How much is the cost?

Der PH · Apr 14, 2003

I don't have Civ on this computer and don't exactly remember, but the partisan is about 10 or 20 shields more expensive than infantry.
Another example is the partisan's predecessor, the assassin, which is only available for oriental civs with theology. It's stats are 3/1/1 and the only other feature is its invisibility. I made it 20 shields more expensive than knights, but the AI doesn't build mounted units any more, although these are much better in frontal combat.

Yoda Power · Apr 14, 2003

hmm sounds weird. Maybe you should lower the attack.

Der PH · Apr 14, 2003

Lowering the attack would make the assassin and the partisan quite useless.

For the spy I will try to reduce movement from 4 to 2 or 3.

Well, I guess these problems are what you get when you try to create something the game was not designed for.

Interesingly for submarines it works very good. The sub's combat stats are much lower than those of the battleship, but the AI does build both with a slight favour for battleships. I hope that I find the right equilibrium of cost, stats and special features like invisibility for land units, too.

This brings me to the question, how the AI generally decides, which unit to build? Does it consider the stats or the cost or both or something completely different?

Willem · Apr 14, 2003

Originally posted by Der PH

Anybody an idea what to do?

You're just going to have to fiddle with the stats until the regular units become more attractive to the AI. Cost is a factor, but the Offence/Defence values have a large part to do with it as well. Make them just a little weaker than your regular troops at the time and more expensive, that should help.

Also, I've discovered that the AI has an eye for an eye approach to them; the more you use them yourself, the more it will produce as well.

Smoking mirror · Apr 14, 2003

Try making the Partisans cheaper then the tanks and infantry. The A.I like to build expensive units, I'm prety sure the A.I curently favours the partsian more than the cavalry is the high cost of the partisans.

Yoda Power · Apr 14, 2003

Originally posted by Smoking mirror
Try making the Partisans cheaper then the tanks and infantry. The A.I like to build expensive units,

really? I never knew that.

Smoking mirror · Apr 14, 2003

Thats just something I heard, I could be wrong as Ive not actualy played the game in months (too busy making units).

Yoda Power · Apr 14, 2003

Originally posted by Smoking mirror
Thats just something I heard, I could be wrong as Ive not actualy played the game in months (too busy making units).

yeah i know how you feel. Since december i have played less than ten games.

Willem · Apr 14, 2003

Originally posted by Yoda Power

yeah i know how you feel. Since december i have played less than ten games.

That's nothing. I've had the game for over a year now, and I have yet to finish one. I keep getting new ideas for my mod that I want to try and have to start from the beginning again. Getting new patches and PTW hasn't helped any either; almost everytime I decide to start from scratch again. Looks like I'm almost down to the wire now though, this game I'm playing now is going quite nicely, just a few more tweaks to go.

Der PH · Apr 15, 2003

Originally posted by Willem
That's nothing. I've had the game for over a year now, and I have yet to finish one. I keep getting new ideas for my mod that I want to try and have to start from the beginning again. Getting new patches and PTW hasn't helped any either; almost everytime I decide to start from scratch again. Looks like I'm almost down to the wire now though, this game I'm playing now is going quite nicely, just a few more tweaks to go.

Nearly the same for me. My current game is the first for months that I continued to the late industrial age. The mentioned problems with the partisans make me consider stopping it now, but as I played it to this point I'll continue a little bit more to check out a few other things I added (at least I have to see the performance of my railwaygun).

Originally posted by Smoking Mirror
Try making the Partisans cheaper then the tanks and infantry. The A.I like to build expensive units, I'm prety sure the A.I curently favours the partsian more than the cavalry is the high cost of the partisans.

That's an interesting point. The AI thinks, the more expensive unit has to be the better one, so let's build it?
That means by making the partisans more expensive I made them even more attractive to the AI?
I feared, it could be something like this!

Willem · Apr 15, 2003

Originally posted by Der PH
That's an interesting point. The AI thinks, the more expensive unit has to be the better one, so let's build it?
That means by making the partisans more expensive I made them even more attractive to the AI?
I feared, it could be something like this!

I'm a little suspect about that observation myself, I'd say it has more to do with the stats. Though I admit I don't have a clue what motivates the AI to choose one unit over another. So far I've been lucky I guess, what I've selected for my "roque" units has worked out rather well, the AI builds them enough to make a general nusance of itself without causing problems for it's overall military. It took a little fiddling at first though.

Nemesis Rex · Apr 15, 2003

I've had pretty good results with invisible partisans and later guerillas. The AI generally uses the to be a pain in the A$$ tearing up things and making me guard my workers. Whichis what they are ment to do. But, I've only reached the point where they are available a few times since I added them.

Strange that you got this result, I've noticed that the AI under utilizes subs, which are eseentially the same thing at sea.

Der PH · Apr 16, 2003

Willem, Nemesis Rex:
What stats did you use for your roque or partisan?

Der PH · Apr 16, 2003

Oops! Double Post!

mrtn · Apr 16, 2003

Der PH, did you try to lower the cost, and did you get any results?

Der PH · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by mrtn
Der PH, did you try to lower the cost, and did you get any results?

I'll try it in my next game, but it will take some time to playtest it, because I don't have as much time to play civ as i'd like to. Earliest next week, but probably later I'll have results.

Nahuixtelotzin · Apr 16, 2003

Seems that most of us modders have the same low time budget for actual playing. Modding is the real game for us, not the game itself. I haven't finished a game in 4 months now and until now, I've finished maybe a total of 15 games since Civ3 came out...

Yoda Power · Apr 16, 2003

Originally posted by Nahuixtelotzin
Modding is the real game for us

I could´nt have said it better myself.

Problems with partisans

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