Next turn - 300 bc

400 BC: Made recommended changes

375 BC: FW builds caravan, Ipec builds settler
Discovers Pottery, starts Masonry (highest votes in latest sci poll not already invented)
Dou switch to HG
Tax set to 70%
Caravan from FW loaded on to trireme.

350 BC: EF builds temple

325 BC: Barbarians land near Barbarians Suck. I think we are being haunted...

300 BC: HG in Dou ready (12s waste), what to build before caravans arrive?
4 caravans headed towards Dou, all should be there within 4 turns if we can manage the barbs.




Tax still at 70%, 31g-8g, discoveries every 21. Treasury 182g.

Questions:

• Shall we let Neu finish MPE itself, keeping enough cash to RB it if needed, or shall we slow down production and help it with a caravan (already finsihed 148s)?
• Shall we clear jungle before founding C8?
• Is it all right to found city east of Ipec (4 special site overlapping Ipec)? What shall it build?
• For 2f and 2g, we can finish LP trireme next turn, otherwise two turns and waste 2s?
• Shall we try for another wonder, e.g. LH, or shall we try to expand with triremes and settlers, or shall try to deliver some caravans once MPE is in place?
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[dance] [dance] [dance]
The barbarian trap works !![dance] [dance]

We should soon get yet another $150 by capturing a barbarian leader. The archer on the mountain can be moved to the next mountain. This will cause the barbarian archer to commit suicide. The other archer can be safely allowed to attack Doughnutia, a veteran archer on a hill should survive the attack. Then the elephant can go and get the barbarians leader.

First impressions of the situation:

Two things: FW IPRB'd a caravan which was not an option in the poll (the option was only to switch to producing caravan there) but in retrospect this makes sense since the trireme was able to fetch it relatively quickly.

To respond to some of Funxus' points:

(a) Neu should continue on its own with MPE and all caravans be sent to Doug. We can always rush buy MPE if needed - remember that we have some 'hidden cash' in the form of temples we can sell in emergencies so we do not even need to keep big cash reserves although I recommend it until the remaining two wonders have been completed.

(b) IMO we should clear the jungle before founding C8 - jungles as city sites suck.

(c) I'm not too concerned about overlap in the east. There is one alternative to the settler's square, the plains next to the fish. The biggest concern in the east is defense.

(d) I assume this refers to LP's trireme - yes, we should finish it next turn (actually I thought it had been decided to IPRB it earlier ). Then build diplomat.

(e) We should soon start another wonder somewhere (probably in Neum - in Doug we want things like marketplaces etc.). I do not want LH or GL but it's useful to start one of these wonders and then switch to Mike later. We should build Mike in Neum since Doug will be busy building Cope later (it's the SSC so we want Cope and Ike there).

Doug should maximize production now by switching from the fish to the silk and from the river to forest.

We need an updated science plan (I have doubts masonry was the best option but it's OK if we meet the AI and acquire it via exchanges). In particular, we will soon meet the AI civs (at the latest once we complete MPE) which will probably give us the opportunity to acquire a whole lot of techs via exchanges. Monotheism (=Mike) and Astronomy (=Cope) is IMO what we should be aiming for but something like bridge building would also be nice.

We badly need settlers for improving the land near Doug, Neu and LC. One settler as nearing Neu but probably LC should build settler once it finishes its caravan.

I think Dou should build something that might be needed and takes less than four turns, because in four turns there will be 4 caravans waiting outside Dou to help Col. And if we decide to leave Neu to build MPE itself, we have no direct need for those caravans being built in EF and RF. We could either use them for future wonders, deliver them, or change one (RF?) to a dip to send on LP trireme.


About Masonry:
There was no obvious choice on the list:
Masonry
Medicine
The Republic
Seafaring
Warrior Code
The Wheel

So, I checked the latest science poll I could find, and almost all of the long term goals we had voted on were achieved. The one with most votes we hadn't achieved was Astronomy which required Masonry.


d. is referring to trireme, it says wrong. I'll edit it...
There are four things fighting about our income:
Science
We need a lot of cash in treasury for barbs and to rush a wonder if needed
Caravans for wonders
Other improvements and units

We decided to sack science. Still, I get the feeling wonders are higher priority than getting a trireme earlier, so I decided to wait a little bit on that one until we were more sure about the wonders. Now, when we are in no direct need of the RF caravan, we might be able to get away that trireme as early since we can build the dip in RF instead of LP. Maybe I was wrong, but it's hard to decide what shall have the money when we want money for caravans, improvements, units and treasury.

I now also notice that there is land north and east of C8, maybe the same as north of LP?

A. Yes, we shouldnt bother neu with any caravans. I dont think any other AI is going to get MPE any time to soon. Even if one of the AI's builds the pyramids, and the other switches to MPE (they'll choose colossus first), we can RB if they come close to buildin it. I suggest movin off forest and on to fish, I think we should change back to grow neu one more citizen. It becomes a much better city. In the growth process we get 2 surplus food, we also gain 2 more units of trade.

B. I always Irrigate jungle city sites, would be a bad idea not to. Also we need a settler in this area, to build a few roads, and increase trade... IPRB naervana settler....still awhile away. Like to hear some suggestions on this. Roads also increase our defensive power.

C. The spot where the settler stands is good. Giving us a chance at one extra special. We should start with a war. there, or phalanx.

D. Finish Trireme Imedietly in LP. We need to expand and explore. Also with new land within sight, and only 2 turns away, we should discuss our foreign affairs plan. Obviously we want to start peaceful and trade as much as possible. We should get thier map if possible.

E. The wonders we have and are building, are most important in my eyes. I think we should concentrate on expantion and defenses. We have enough caravans to build the colussus. Dou can build courts, and markets. After MPE Neu can start a wonder, (any) it will be switched to Mike's in the future. This way we can have vans only comin out of one or 2 cities, to hlp with that. And the rest can build some settlers, and some Dips, and some defense. What do people think?


Our barb situation should play out just fine. Worst cases scenario, they all go for dough... i think our archer on a hill will thwart that. MONEY! 150 g's ours thx Elle.

THE VIKING WROTE: Doug should maximize production now by switching from the fish to the silk and from the river to forest.

Click to expand...

In Dou i agree we increase production, but not on sacrification of growth all together. We can keep 1 surplus food, get one extra sheild, and one extra trade, by using all 3 special sites. I think this is best for Dou and our civilization.

A. Fine, use Vans to build Colossus in SSC.
B. Yes, RF Sett near EF. Question is, Road Forest, W Road Plains, then Irrigiate Neumatic? Or just go irrigate it now? I prefer Roads.
C. Huh?
D. LP Trireme in 2 turns? or Fish to Forest in 1? Is there a Dip Captain?
E. BP Settler might work. We need a Road from LC to Dough for Van delivery and whatnot. Or LC could build a Settler, then irrigate itself once first to keep working the Silk nonstop.
F. Our Science, discoveries in 19, seems tragic.

Regarding the barbarians, I think we can get rid of one of their archers immediately by moving our mountain archer one square west, i.e. from one mountain to the next. It is then adjacent to the barbarian archer which will attack it and die. We should then move our archer back to the eastern mountain.

The worst case scenario following that is IMO if the remaining barbarian archer heads straight east towards PB. In that case we will probably be forced to use the elephant to kill the archer/leader combo - we must prevent them from attacking PB and reducing its size to 1. I'm assuming they'll travel together, making it impossible to bribe the archer.

However, I'm hoping they'll head for Dou, attack and die (our fortified, veteran archer on the hill should survive the attack nicely). After this, the elephant can go and hunt down the barbarian leader, giving us yet another $150.

I'm happy with one discovery in 19 turns temporarily as long as we are doing something constructive with the $$ we are getting instead .

Is it all right if I play this afternoon, or Thursday afternoon? We have a biology project that supposedly is to be handed in on Friday, and we haven't started, so I probably will need tomorrow to finish that.

There's a dip, that might be able to bribe the archer. It is east of the fortified archer (the reason it's not showing is that it's active and probably was blinking). We probably wont have a chance to bribe the archer though.

The Office of Scientific Research agreed to our nation's current heavy tax burden only as a temporary matter UNTIL POTTERY (HG) WAS DISCOVERED. That has now been achieved, so more of our nation's resources must be devoted to scientific research now. Decrease our burdensome taxes and increase our science rate immediately!

No need to bribe the barb archer, unless we really want another archer. Who would have to support it and can they? It is spending money we don't need to to deal with the problem

On another note, a new science poll should be forthcoming (Given the current low level of funding for scientific projects we had to lay off all our office assistants, so things are taking a little longer ).

For those who haven't been able to load the game, here's a list of all techs so far:
Alphabet
Bronze Working
Ceremonial Burial
Code of Laws
Currency (White)
Horseback Riding
Literacy (W)
Mapmaking
Monarchy (W)
Mysticism (W)
Philosophy (W)
Pottrery
Trade
Writing (W)

Researching Masonry

We need 208 beakers per tech and produce 30b with sci at 70%.

An important thing that will soon have a major effect on our science plan is tech exchanges via MPE which we should finish several turns from now unless something goes wrong.

I agree with Leowind that we do not need to bribe one of the barbarian archers (unless a highly unexpected emergency arises).

a)Shall we let Neu finish MPE itself, keeping enough cash to RB it if needed, or shall we slow down production and help it with a caravan (already finsihed 148s)?

Use Caravans to help out.

b)Shall we clear jungle before founding C8?

I hate jungles, they make lousy city sites, and we should clear them out.

c)Is it all right to found city east of Ipec (4 special site overlapping Ipec)? What shall it build?

I think the settler's current location is good. As for what it shall build, I think defense and military units should be the first priority. If needed, we can switch to something else later.

d)For 2f and 2g, we can finish LP trireme next turn, otherwise two turns and waste 2s?

We should finish trireme ASAP so we can get out and explore.

e)Shall we try for another wonder, e.g. LH, or shall we try to expand with triremes and settlers, or shall try to deliver some caravans once MPE is in place?

I think TheViking's plan for wonders is good, it's pretty much what I was thinking.

As for the barbs, I agree that we should only bribe them if the need arises.

Lastly, funxus, if you need me, I am available to play every night for the rest of the week.

Realized there were some things I didn't respond to earlier,

a) Let Neu finish on its own, keeping some cash reserves. HG and Colossus are much more important IMHO

b) Definitely clear the jungle before settling

c) haven't looked at the map closely, but yes found somewhere to get the 4 special site, even if it takes away some from Ipec. Just look to that city's defenses ASAP

d) Yes, finish Trireme in one turn

e) the next wonders we should try for are Cops Obs and Mike's Chapel. We could pre-start a wonder and switch when the tech becomes available

Personally I prefer building caravans over pre-building wonders.

They're cheaper to IPRB and give you more flexibility if the city needs to build something else to respond to a situation.

In the case of Dou I strongly prefer caravans over prebuilding wonders. The reason is that this city will be wanting improvements. Lots of them and ahead of the other cities. Marketplace, courthouse, library and aqueduct. And of course Copernicus sometime along the way. And we should establish trade routes there ASAP but I'm not sure we'll have time for that until after Copernicus is finished.

Whether to prebuild a wonder in other cities (Neu is an obvious choice) or not is not as obvious. If e.g. Neu is building a wonder and needs a military unit EF or LC could supply it.

Move the Archer to the other Mtn, save money, get back to a high Science program, IPRB Vans rather than prebuild Wonders. There are many good ideas above, and I may not have mentioned all of them, but keep on going !

Regarding the LP Sett at C8: generally build before clearing. But in this case, it seems LP can handle the 10 turns, and there is no other Sett nearby to end the suffering. So Clear, then found C8.

I don't like the Ipec Sett nor this fascination with 4special spots.

Dough Colossus. It will take 6 turns at best for the 4th Van (there is one hiding in LC and LC will complete the 4th next turn). In that time, working the Silk, we could save a Van, even build it a turn earlier and send the LC Van to Neumatic MPE (4 turns). Just some options.

Dough Colossus. It will take 6 turns at best for the 4th Van (there is one hiding in LC and LC will complete the 4th next turn). In that time, working the Silk, we could save a Van, even build it a turn earlier and send the LC Van to Neumatic MPE (4 turns). Just some options.

Click to expand...

I realize it's smarter to just use 3 caravans for Dou, completing it in 6 (not counting barbs interfering). The 4th caravan could be used to complete MPE in 4 turns, but I'd rather store it for Cops.

About the trireme: is anyone interested in IPRB 11g in RF, complete dip in 2? If we do this, I don't see the point of completing the trireme one turn earlier. If we use the trireme, we'd lose 1 turn of exploring, because we'd have to go back to pick up the dip, or we'd have to wait one turn in the city for the dip.

EDIT: Wrote "barb" instead of "dip"

Thanks Naervod, but I will have time to play tomorrow when I get home -which probably is 18:00 CET (17:00 GMT).

Originally posted by funxus

About the trireme: is anyone interested in IPRB 11g in RF, complete dip in 2? If we do this, I don't see the point of completing the trireme one turn earlier. If we use the trireme, we'd lose 1 turn of exploring, because we'd have to go back to pick up the dip, or we'd have to wait one turn in the city for the barb.

Click to expand...

A very good idea that I would have included in the domestic poll had it occurred to me.

I was thinking about the "C8" settler. Before the square was revealed, I pushed for that site because it would get one more special, but 10 turns is a long time to clear jungle. It looks like there is land due north of the C8 site which would be able to easily cover the extra special. We could just move back and build on the "C7"site (Grass 1 square SW) for now, and eventually we can pick up the extra special from the other land mass. The special is obscured until we get a ship over there, so it's no big loss. That's probably what I would do at this point...just another option to consider.

Tim, you're probably right. Only one square would overlap (with FW), the rest is ocean anyway.