"Predator" Class Game Announcement

cracker

Gil Favor's Sidekick
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The Gotm20-Spanish game will be a Deity level event but for players who wish to have a greater challenge we will support an optional and more difficult game version known as the "Predator Class" game.

You may only choose and play each GOTM game once. This means that the "Predator Class" games represent an extra set of optional risks and challenges for experienced players.

The central event of the GOTM will continue to be the "Open Class" game just like all the games we have played in recent months. All players will be measured against the results tables and standards set by the experienced and successful "Open Class" players.

There will be NO added scoring differential for "Predator Class" games versus "Open Class" games.

"Predator Class" games may be submitted to the QSC scoring process. For the purposes of the QSC ranking only, the "Predator Class" games may receive a QSC scoring offset to compensate for some obvious differences in the games. The scoring offset for the QSC should be fairly straightforward but may not be determined in advance of the games until we collect some better examples of actual game play.

Predator Class games will be played on the same maps as Open Class and Conquest Class Games and will start from exactly the same starting positions. The production difficulty levels and AI costs advantages will be the same for games in the Open and Conquest classes of play. Instead of changing the game mechanics by increasing the key features that get set in the "difficulty level" we will use other techniques to encourage players to rise to new challenges while still keeping the basic game strategy issues similar enough to the Open Class games to facilitate meaningful discussion and comparison.

Participation in the Predator Class games will be open to all players who do not chose to participate in the Open Class or Conquest Class events for that particular game. There is no obligation or implication that a player must continue to play the Predator Class game instead of the Open Class game.

The differences between the Open Class games and Predator Class games can be significant depending on the difficulty level of the Open Class game. The differences may include voluntary restrictions on chosen victory conditons and/or the usage of specific units and/or improvements/wonders. The use of certain traceable but normally allowed "game exploits" may be voluntarily restricted in the Predator Class game announcement.

For Gotm20 we will keep the definition of the Predator Class game simple in order to help identify the procedural mechanics of how the game will work.
For Gotm20-Spain the Predator Class games will:
  • have the opening hut benefits reduce to zero
  • have the Barbarian intensity raised to "Raging"
  • Target a victory condition of "Conquest"
  • Must play the game in PTW

Predator Class games will be internally marked for identification by the GOTM scoring process but it would be helpful if Predator Class players would display the CFC Swordsman icon at the beginning of all their message posts in any strategy or spoiler discussion threads so that other players can help to keep any discussions framed in the proper context.
 
Originally posted by cracker

  • Must play the game in PTW

Why? Is there any technical problem or is this the first hint suggesting that the plain CivIII players will have less opportunities also in the future?
 
Not really a technical problem, just that I made the decision for now that raging barbarians in PTW would be the choice for the Predator Game for Gotm20.

Not less opportunities for Civ3 players just less work for Aeson, Cracker and all the other GOTM staff.

We monitor who is playing the game in what version of the software and for now this lets us just eliminate one permutation in a month when the open class game would be at Deity level anyway.
 
After reading the changes regarding the conquest class I was skeptical, but the additional difficulty is very nicely put. Raging barbs are a like half a level above deity until the middle ages. Conquest victory is somewhat harder to achieve, avoiding the diplo or spaceship ‘easy ways out’. I’m definitely into this.
Some comments and questions.
I guess that starting with the Predator class save but ending up with a different victory condition will automatically qualify me for the ‘open’ class while a defeat will give me some honor in claiming a ‘Predator’ defeat.

I guess that a milked conquest victory is still a conquest victory.

Could you please spell-out why precisely conquest and not conquest/domination for example or culture?

How do you see the Predator class going in the future GOTM (same conditions or will predators play with one arm tied to the back?)
 
I have mixed feelings about the new classes. I am not sure I even want to finish # 19 now.

Well, I am sure that all of the top players will go to predator class and so will I also, otherwise the purpose of playing GOTM will be lost to me, no way to compare my game against the most experience players.

But gee whiz.........things change too much too fast in this GOTM business for people like me who have to work most of the time and can only game part of the time.

Now pehaps some of the top players will not like being restricted to conquest and then play open. Suddenly the GOTM no longer exists as some of the top players play pred and others open and the THERE IS NO GAME WHERE YOU CAN PLAY COMPARATIVELY AGAINST THE TOP PLAYERS. The is a sad day I fear as the GOTM may have shot themselves in the foot.

My great and last hope is that 90% of the top players will refuse to play in the Pred class in protest to having only one victory condition.

This whole thing is extemely dissapointing. I could understand perfectly a junior class for inexperienced players.
 
ltcoljt,

It is not necessarily guaranteed that the predator class game will always have a specified victory condition. SOme of this will depend on the game concepts being applied.

I would not recommend that you attempt to play the Predator Class game at this point in time. The choice will be yours, but my impression is that a few more games in the open class may help your perspective a little and might give you a stronger sense of community. This next game is going to be a Deity level game and my evaluation of the things I have read and seen would lead me to feel that you will get more out of the game if you continue to

We are particularly sensity to NOT doing things that do segregate the community into permanent divisions. We are fairly conficent that these games implemented the way they are designed will not produce this unwanted segregation. There will still be one game, with one map, but some players may choose to play the game with one arm tied behind their back will other players will be given a little extra help to aid them in participating as active and full members of the community.

Gotm17-Carthage was your first and only full GOTM game with us. I urge you to give the process and the community and well as yourself more time to find the participation level that is right for you and that will let you develop respectful relationships with the players around you.

You also rest assured that all of the top players will not make the jump to the predator class games because that is not the designed intent. There will be no scoring incentive to make that jump and the game will generally require a much different intensity than the Open Class game that we design with you in mind. You have my assurance that these three game intensity levels will not create divisions or a reduction in the quality and quantity of game play discussion because we will intervene externally to make sure that these key features of the GOTM games are preserved at all costs.
 
Originally posted by ltcoljt
I have mixed feelings about the new classes. I am not sure I even want to finish # 19 now.

Well, I am sure that all of the top players will go to predator class and so will I also, otherwise the purpose of playing GOTM will be lost to me, no way to compare my game against the most experience players.

I will always be in the "Open" class. Since I'm a builder, I don't like raging barbs and barbs in PTW are very smart too.
 
Well I wouldn't consider myself a top player, but I probably won't play the Predator class either. I'm still a little undecided, but I was thinking to go for a culture victory. I played conquest in gotm17 and I like to spread my victory conditions around a bit. Keeps the game more fun for me. I think culture victory would be just as hard as conquest in a deity level game, depending on the map size. If it's a large map then conquest would be much harder, but on a small map culture would be harder.
 
I still consider myself as a beginner at civ3, hopefully that will change soon so I can play a fun predator game.
 
Question: The human can only win this class via conquest...does this mean the other victory conditions are turned off? Can the AI still win via Diplomacy/Space?
 
I want to apologize for anything inappropriate or offensive in my post above. I tend to go over the top sometimes and sometimes my emotions get ahead of my brain.
 
All of the victory conditions are ON in the game but in order to receive recognition as the highest scoring game in the Predator class you must meet the designated victory condition. Humns could still technically play this predator game for a different victory condition other than designated target but that would not qualify them the recognition as the best game.

All Predator Class games will still be scored into the results tables just like the Open Class games so essentially the Predators just have all the same risks and strategy problems plus a few extra issues that would not appear in the Open Class game.

For this game example, since Gotm20-Spain is already a Diety level game, the differences between the Open Class game and the Predator Class game may seem relatively small compared to what we might see if the Open Class game was at Regent of Monarch difficulty.
 
ltcoljt: I'm skeptical that very many people will play Predator, at least the first month. Seems to do no harm if they want to. Remember that there are any number of "top players" that don't play GOTM at all. Maybe this change will increase the total number of participants (presumably this is one of cracker's goals). The idea that you need to be able to compare yourself against every single possible opponent in order to enjoy playing seems wrong to me. I think it makes sense to have a higher difficulty option when the GOTM is Regent level, it just seems boring to play against such weak opponents (no offense).
 
Originally posted by Moonsinger
I will always be in the "Open" class. Since I'm a builder, I don't like raging barbs and barbs in PTW are very smart too.
I don't like raging barbs either, I think they're the optional challenge I like least in CivIII.

I sure do like the concept of the Predator class. But between the raging barbs, having gone conquest in GOTM19, and this being a Deity game already I may not go Predator this time. I guess it will depend on map size and time I expect to have available to play - conquest does have the advantage of being one of the faster games...

(Edit: And Predator might make it much faster again :lol: )
 
Originally posted by Moonsinger
Since I'm a builder, I don't like raging barbs and barbs in PTW are very smart too.
I dread to imagine what the "End of Era" uprisings are like at raging on Deity in PTW. Probably capable of wiping out your entire tile improvements to date :lol:

Ted
 
Originally posted by SirPleb
I sure do like the concept of the Predator class. But between the raging barbs, having gone conquest in GOTM19, and this being a Deity game already I may not go Predator this time. I guess it will depend on map size and time I expect to have available to play - conquest does have the advantage of being one of the faster games...

I'm going with you on that.:) I would like to take back what I said previously about the "will always be" part. Sure, the Predator class can be fun too. Since I rarely get anything good from the huts anyway, I probably won't notice anything different. Raging barbs can be a blessing in some game because it would definitely keep the AIs busy for awhile.

PS: Since this is a Deity game, I will go with the "open" class for now.
 
Am I the only one who is truly frightened by the concept of a Deity level game with the cards stacked against you from the start? I hope not.

I do like the idea, however. Because this is a competition against other Civers, difficulty settings are arbitrary. Should these "divisions" continue in subsequent GsOTM, I think I'll have to give "Predator" a try.

I'll stick with "Open" for now. I've never beaten Deity....until GOTM 20. (must.....remain.....optimistic.....)
 
I'll stick with "Open" for now. I've never beaten Deity....until GOTM 20. (must.....remain.....optimistic.....)

ditto :lol:

If anyone doesn't think raging barbs on Deity are tough try Epic 26!
 
The barbs will probably eat me alive, but I think I will go for the Predator class game. I can hardly do worse than in GOTM19 :)
Fast expansion would appear to be the key so there is as little FOW as possible. I've also seen people use empty cities as barb magnets at the time of the uprising, reducing the losses caused by plundering.
 
The best thing about Barbs on Deity is the AI expands fast enough to eliminate most uprising possibilities. Then all that's needed is enough Warriors to keep the open spots free of FoW around the turn of the era.
 
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