The mysteries of resistance

Do you think testing this is important?

  • Yes, of course! I can't wait to see the results!

    Votes: 18 62.1%
  • I think you should test it, but it's not [i]too[/i] important.

    Votes: 9 31.0%
  • Nah, you probably shouldn't do all of this.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Are you crazy?! This is a waste of time!

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • It's already been done before.

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Other/I dunno

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29

WillJ

Coolness Connoisseur
Joined
Aug 9, 2002
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Location
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Edit: If you're interested in the results, see post #13.

Hello everyone,

I was fighting a war in Civ3 one day, and while quelling some resistance I decided I'd like to find out exactly (or close to exactly) how resitance works. I asked about it in the newbie thread, no one knew for sure, and we had a little discussion about it. Now I've decided to test it out, and dedicate a thread to it. What I'm testing is what determines how many citizens initially go into resitance when their city is captured, and how many are quelled each turn. My goal is to find out how it works, so that when playing a game, I (and others) can better estimate how many units we'll need to quell the resistance.

Here's my plan:

I'll make a fairly simple scenario, and capture an enemy city of 10 content citizens (making sure it's stable). (I'll give myself some units to easily do this.) I'll note any possible factors, and change one variable at a time (always going back to the original, or "control," each time, THEN changing whatever). I'll repeat everything 5 times, since there's some randomness to it (according to the Editor). I'll make sure "preserve random seed" is off (thanks, pdescobar. :D).
  1. First variable: number of units.
  2. Then change the units (e.g. from warriors to knights).
  3. Then declare war before attacking, instead of surprise attacking. (This is because rep might have something to do with it.)
  4. Then make the city happier than before.
  5. Then make the city more unhappy.
  6. Then give myself all techs.
  7. Then give the other civ all techs.
  8. Then let both of us have all techs.
  9. Then change my civ's government (in the Editor, so I start out with it).
  10. Then change the other civ's government (in the Editor).
  11. Then change the difficulty level from chieftain to deity.
  12. Then capture an enemy city (exactly the same as the original) farther away from its capital, and about the same distance from mine.
  13. Same as above, except farther away from my capital (same distance from their's).
  14. Then give the city that I'm capturing more culture, but make sure our two civs have the same total culture.
  15. Then give the city that I'm capturing less culture (making sure two civs are equal).
  16. Then give both of our civs more culture, but make sure we're equal.
  17. Then give the other civ more culture than me.
  18. Then give myself more culture than the other civ.[/list=1]If I can tell a certain variable isn't a factor, I'll stop right there and note that it isn't. If it seems that it is, I'll continue to expand my testing to better understand how it works.

    Now, before I begin, does anyone have any suggestions? I don't want to finish testing, only to realize I should have done a certain thing and that I'll have to start over. ;) Also, does anyone know if it's already known how it works? And any comments and questions are welcome, of course. :)

    Edit: Order has changed quite a bit, and a couple of things have been added.
 
I think that someone has already done this. But im not sure. I feel grateful towards anyone who does any testing, cause i am too lazy to do any, and probably wouldnt get the results accurate. Resistance and Culture flipping are probably one of the things i want to know most about, and soon will :)

I like the information :) Good luck

EDIT:btw i DO know abooot culture flippin...
 
Thanks for the well wishes. :)

@GB: Hmm... Too bad the search feature is disabled. If anyone clearly remembers that it's been done before, I'd be grateful to know. Of course, testing it again wouldn't be all that bad....
 
I was only able to find this thread, started by Killer. He's asking how it works, not telling, so I'm pretty sure it's not known. It was kinda an interesting read, and I've added in some things in my plan after reading it.
 
Good isea and good luck!

I'd just point out that the editor contains one or two variables tat influence the overall chances -- it is labeled (IIRC) resistance chances and is presented as a percentage -- te precise percentage depends on the relative cultural values of the civs in question; i.e., if you have a cultural lead, the resistance likelihood is lowered; if you are culturally behind, there will be a gretaer chance of resistance. Maye this eases some of your culture related tests (though it does nothing for the number of units, happiness, local culture, etc. variables).

I also wouldn't spend too much time focusing on the resistance suppression effects of a warrior versus a modern armor. It seems clear that in other instances of the game (military police, culture flipping) any unit with an A/D value is equally adept at influencing the outcome, whether its A/D is 1/1 or 24/16. Though conceivably possible, I doubt that the designers would have created a whole new algorithm that takes into account the A/D values but then not use that algorithm for other instances where number of units stationed is a variable in an equation.
 
Originally posted by Catt
Good isea and good luck!
Thanks!
Originally posted by Catt
I'd just point out that the editor contains one or two variables tat influence the overall chances -- it is labeled (IIRC) resistance chances and is presented as a percentage -- te precise percentage depends on the relative cultural values of the civs in question; i.e., if you have a cultural lead, the resistance likelihood is lowered; if you are culturally behind, there will be a gretaer chance of resistance. Maye this eases some of your culture related tests (though it does nothing for the number of units, happiness, local culture, etc. variables).
Yep, already knew. :) I'm a little confused by it, though. Is it for one unit in a city, or what? (Since, for example, there's not always a 40% chance of continued resistance when they admire your culture. If you have no units in there, it'd be 100%. If you have 30 or so, it's almost 0%.) I guess I'll try figuring it out myself.... Edit: Actually, not that I think about it, it's probably just 40%, balanced out with all the other factors. So if # of units is the only other factor, and one unit makes it 75%, balanced out with the 40% it'd be 52.5%. Of course, this is the reason I'm testing.
Originally posted by Catt
I also wouldn't spend too much time focusing on the resistance suppression effects of a warrior versus a modern armor. It seems clear that in other instances of the game (military police, culture flipping) any unit with an A/D value is equally adept at influencing the outcome, whether its A/D is 1/1 or 24/16. Though conceivably possible, I doubt that the designers would have created a whole new algorithm that takes into account the A/D values but then not use that algorithm for other instances where number of units stationed is a variable in an equation.
Yeah, after looking at resistance effects with modern armor, I'll just look at it a bit with warriors, just to be sure. :)
 
I have now completed the scenario I will use, and just in case anyone's curious or wants to make any suggestions about it, here it is:

Resistance Test Scenario

And here's the save file:

Resistance Test Save File

I'll sometimes change it to test the different variables (for example, giving myself all techs).

Edit: Added the save file, and updated the scenario file, since I changed some things to improve on it.
 
Great, "thanks for sharing". Silly question: can I load this in vanilla Civ3 or do I need PTW?
 
Originally posted by ivory
Great, "thanks for sharing". Silly question: can I load this in vanilla Civ3 or do I need PTW?
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It was created in PTW's editor, and I'm using the debug mode (only in PTW), so I'm sorry to say that I'm pretty sure you have to have PTW. :(
 
Okay everyone, I decided to post the answers as to how resistance works in this strategy article.

It turns out that while getting extremely bored with my testing, I decided to PM forum member Mike B. FIRAXIS just in case he'd know exactly how resistance works (I probably should have done that in the first place), and it turns out he did know, so there ya go! :)

Edit: And it'd probably be best to post any replies/questions in the article, not this thread. :)
 
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