Bz2 - 5CC Overdrive

After a glorious Bz1 - Warfest it is time to start another one. The BZ2 - 5CC Attempt.

Earp and I are in. It would be great to have a few more players. Since the latest patch is out worldwide lets have this game in PTW 1.21f.

I have never played a 5CC before so I am really looking forward to this.

As for the rest everything else needs to be determined.

Game Type - 5CC obviously.
Barbs - Sedentary
Civ - Ottomans. Map Size - Stadard, Pangaea
Victory Condition - Any
Difficulty level - Emperor



Players
______

Earp
Stuck_As_A_Mac
Betazed
SnapRoll
Tsukemono5

Can I play? I've been watching your "peaceful americans" game. I started my own, on Monarch, and I am in the midst of a UN battle (to build)

Sure. Welcome to our game Stuck_As_a_Mac. What do you think our civ, map size etc should be?

Glad to know that you are at least at the UN stage . In my latest attempt I am yet to reach the middle ages.

Here is a link to Charis' excellent Guide to 5CC. Everyone should read this.

Originally posted by betazed

Game Type - 5CC obviously.
Civ - ???
Map Size - ???
Victory Condition - ???
Difficulty level - ???

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Here is my vote:

Civ - Chinese, Mongols, Vikings, or Zulu
Map - Standard Pangea
Victory Condition - Any
Difficulty level - Emperor

I think we will have to choose our civilization wisely to be able to win this challengiing scenario on Emperor level. I am not sure which civ traits will be the most beneficial for a 5 CC. I think this is how I would rank the specific civ traits for a 5 CC.
1. Expansionist - Normally I do not value this trait very highly, but I think it may be a great benefit to a 5CC. We need to scout our area and determine the ideal locations for our five cities very early.
2. Industrious - I think that faster workers will help us improve our five cities fully and help build road networks to our colonies.
3. Militaristic - This trait will be less beneficial than normal. We can only build 1 army and may not be able to find uses for the great leaders we produce.
4. Scientific - I think this trait could be beneficial. With only five cities, I imagine that we will be technologically behind the other civs and need all of the research help we can get.
5. Religious - I think this trait will not be very useful. With only five cities, we will not get as much benefit from cheaper temples and cathedrals. I also do not think we will be changing governments very often.
6. Commercial - I never have much use for this trait and with only five cities, I think it is even less useful.

The only industrious/expansionist civ is America, but I'd rather not play them. I would rather play the Chinese(M/I), Mongols(M/E), Vikings(M/E), or Zulu(M/E).

Having done several 5CC myself, I would like to offer a suggestion.

NO barbs. Later on in the game when some areas have been razed to death you will really get sick of having to escort every worker, and sending cavalry to hunt down barbs.


My #1 trait for 5CC is militaristic.

I agree religious has limited 5cc value. Don't knock commecial, extra gold for size 7 helps.

I think setting barbs as sedentary is a very good suggestion.


Although I think the victory conditions should be set as ANY, I think we should shoot for a conquest victory. I think the other victory conditons will be difficult(especially domination).

Here are some 5CC games I've found:

Charis Braveheart's Deity 5CC Conquest

LK42 - Emperor plus, 5cc conquest, Arabia

LK31 - Emperor, 5cc conquest, China

Realms Beyond Civilization - Epic Twenty -nine: The Five Pillars

RBD9 SG - Five Russian Cities

what about Abe or Liz? Both are good when it comes to small civ building.

and @betazed: I have to admit i committed a small sin, because occasionally a unit slipped by in the build queue. I hit a GA with Hoover and Smith. Babylon is going to build the UN, but they started a war with EVERYONE and its not going to be easy for them to pull it off (in the following 20, ill try for Space)

As of now I am reading Charis' guide. Once I have absorbed all of it I will voice my opinion about civs, map type etc.

EDIT: I will be modifying my first post as our decisions are made. As for now the only one that seems to be good is the sedentary barbs. So I will add that to the first post.

More Edit: I also vote difficulty level Emperor. Let's hear from a few others before we decide on this one.

After reading some more, I think we could achieve any victory condition(other than domination of course). It sounds like a conquest victory may be the most difficult, but if Charis has done it on deity, we should atleast have a chance for it on emperor.

The reason I think we should use a standard map is because if the map is larger than a standard sized map, the AIs will have too large of an advantage.

My first choice for civs is China, but I would be fine with any of the militaristic civs.

I'll do it . I vote diff Monarch or Emperor and civ anything Industrious or Expansionist or with a good UU. I like America, but Greece and the French are also good for games with small amounts of cities. Greece has an AWESOME UU (even though the GA comes at a bad time) and the French are a very good builder civ with a decent UU. And America has a GA that can be set off whenever an Expansionist and an Industrious wonder are built, has scouts, starts with pottery, and has fast workers. But I'm open to suggestions.

Welcome aboard Tsukemono5. Have you ever attempted a 5CC?

My comment above about not wanting to play as the Americans was made slightly "tongue in cheek" in reference to betazed's failed attempt to play as peaceful Americans. In reality, I agree that they would be a good civ choice for this SG. I think the Expansionist and Industrious traits will be very beneficial.

Greece and France are both commercial. I have never been very fond of this trait. Do you think that the commercial trait is one of the better civ traits? Why do you think these civs are good for games with few cities?

Ok. After reading thru here are my thoughts and questions.

Civ
Civ traits I think we should go for are scientific and militaristic. The extra science and the often elite uprades will help.

Since we only need to build five cities and scout very little area around us why do we need expansionaist? By the time we can build 5 settlers our warriors can do the job.

However, the best UU in that combination is the German Panzer, which IMO comes very late.

So I veto my own choice and go eith Earps. Militaristic and Industrious . And the Chinese rider is as good a UU as any. Just make sure we have horses and iron in our 5 cities.

Difficulty - Emperor. Hey we need some bragging rights too? I am all for Deity too if the other's agree. I have been winning a few deity games solo nowadays. But with this variant I am sure we will lose on Deity.

Map Size & Type - Agree with Standard. That seems manageable. And Pangea it will be (I do not like the naval wars. They are too slow. ).

So we have two votes for Earp's choice. If I hear one more I will change the fiorst post to reflect this.

Originally posted by Earp
My comment above about not wanting to play as the Americans was made slightly "tongue in cheek" in reference to betazed's failed attempt to play as peaceful Americans.

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Good one, Earp. But myPeaceful Americans Take 2 is going better. And I am doing it in Deity too.

@Tsukemono : Welcome aboard.

@ Earp:
I've played several OCCs, including one on Warlord that ended in Conquest . How hard can a 5CC be?
@ bz:
Why not combine the two and go for a Scientific/Industrious? Ottomans have IMOSHO the best UU in the game.
EDIT:
Oh, and bz, whatever happened to your turn in TSK 01?

Originally posted by Tsukemono5

Why not combine the two and go for a Scientific/Industrious? Ottomans have IMOSHO the best UU in the game.
EDIT:
Oh, and bz, whatever happened to your turn in TSK 01?

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Otto is good too. I like them. I will play tsk1 tonight.

The Sipahi rock. The Ottomans are one of my favorite civs.

So, that's three votes for Sipahi, making it a decision. I will update the first post to reflect that.

@Tsukemono5: Please do not take this otherwise. I do not intend to be condescending or anything, but after watching your game in Eastern Uproar I do not think you are prepared for a 5CC at Emperor. We will be up against quite a challenge and a mistimed 10 sub-optimal turns will tip us to defeat.

So, I'll ask you again, do you really think you are up for it?

And once again, this was not a criticism of your playing skills. You are a better player than I once was.

Otto is fine. What about a Large map for size and continents? Perhaps a need for sea travel?

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Otto is fine. What about a Large map for size and continents? Perhaps a need for sea travel?

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A large map could give the AI a huge advantage. Imagine if on once continent a scientific civ takes over a majority of the land mass, then with our 5 cities we wil have a very difficult time stopping him to the space ship. We will probably have only one harbor, how many transports could we build for the invasion?

large, 80% water.
forgot to mention that part.
think a 5cc Age of Sail