*Spoiler3* Gotm20-Spain-Submit or complete Industrial

Again take a few seconds to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the divided spoiler rules.

This is the THIRD spoiler thread to support discussion of Gotm20-Spain.

The objective of these divided spoiler threads is to provide a little organization to the discussion that will help more people find the topics that they are interested in without having to rummage through the entire game discussion.

Help us to keep the things filed in the appropriate places: ancient age +home continent, middle ages+Full map, or this discussion of the industriral age.

I encourage every player to practice and master the process of posting links to the important previous reports of game progress that you may have posted for each of the two major phases of your game up to this point. If you need help with this process feel free to ask and I am certain that some of the more experienced players can help you.

The tests for access to this spoiler thread is simple:

• you must have reached the final required tech in the industrial age ---or---
• you must have submitted your final save file from playing the game.

To make things absolutely clear, if you cannot already see the locations of coal, oil, and rubber before arriving in this thread then you should not be here until your game has been submited.

You may discuss any information from the game up to the point where you almost enter the Modern Age but if you are posting reports of events and/or activities in the Ancient Age or Middle Ages portions of the game, those reports should be placed in the correct spoiler for that time segment of the game.

We particularly are interested in how you obtained key resources and how the distribution of similar resources to the AI civs may have effected the progress of the game?

You also should have at least one and perhaps two major rival civilizations who you are being forced to contend with on a regular basis. It would be nice to know how you planned to deal with these challenges and if you were able to successfully implement you plans without just having to react or respond to unforecast things that may have happened in the game.

Hope everyone has had fun with this game so far and that you are looking forward to Gotm21-The Mediterranean Melee!!

We will have one final spoiler thread after this one for the Modern Age plus any final game wrap up issues and a few game overview questions/discussions.

REMEMBER to try and be courteous to your friends and fellow players and identify what CLASS of game you are playing and what SOFTWARE version you are using at the begining of each and every post that you make in this thread.

Interesting that you added a fourth spoiler, compared to the usual three. My own game is now in the fourth stage, and there is a very sharp break between the tone of the industrial and modern age. Had there been only one spoiler, I would have probably divided my account into two, so as to make more narrative and strategic sense.

The calculator has been updated to include GOTM20.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/calculator/index.php

I lost!

conquest civ3 1.29f

we crawled into the industrial age, always a few techs behind the pack (america, india, ottomans). the remaining civs where all more or less in shambles following what must have been more than a few thousand years of on and off again wars.

the french had been the first to kiss this world good bye, followed by the zulu, iroq and lastly the aztec.

i had managed build a few wonders like the great library, sun-tzu's and bachs cathedral (i was really impressed with myself for being able to build all of them). I had also conquered Leonardos from the French.

due to the constant global wars the computers as soon as they could all became communists, which I recon is the only reason I actually managed to win this game.

i went for the theory of evolution, but that was built when i was only three turns away, which in turn ruled out me getting the hoover. i even had a great leader standing by for a quick build.

conquest of the world was ruled out. so was a cultural victory. my goal was an "easy" diplomatic victory.

[edited out stuff about the modern age].

a steady trade of iron and luxery had granted me what i lacked in resources (rubber) and fueled the wars.

[edited out more modern age stuff].


The big dog durring the industrial age had to be America (They had most of their continent). Ottomans and Indians followed. I managed to hang in there with trading and trying to get the other CIVs to war with eachother. Noone had had any success settling on each others continent for to long.

[double post]

Open Class 1.29

First post is here. Ancient Age 4000BC - 1025BC

Second post is here. Middle Ages 1025BC - 570AD

Spain entered the Industrial Ages in 570AD as republic:



Tech and Wonders:
Our Golden Ages ends, we build Newton's in Murcia. Only our second Great Wonder after Adam Smith's.
As I always do, I start researching NOW as fast as possible. Steam is researched at 70% due in 12 turns. Slow. Ottomans know steam in 650, we need until 690. Our coal is in the jungle and no workers close, thus we start railroading only in 740 AD. In 610, we start a ToE pre-build in Barcelona. Ottomans beat us by 3 turns to electricity. We research medicine next and are first. Medicine gives us nationalism, industrialization, and communism.
In 890 we discover scientific method, Barcelona switches to and builds Theory of Evolution giving us atomic and electronics. This gives us a tech lead which we always maintain, getting all the cash of the AIs plus the missing 3 luxuries.

War:
In 820AD, Zulus Attack ottomans and our mpp makes us join. We achieve our goal and capture Bapedi with Leonardo's. Zulus are wiped out. Interestingly, the Ottomas raze the Zulu cities and have to start again from scratch, except where our settlers were faster.
In 870AD Orleans (with our wines) flips to the Ottomans but our gracious allies refuse the rebels.
In 940 AD we declare war to the Keltoi and capture all of their country wiping them out in 1070AD.
Great leader Cordoba moves our Palace to Gergovia in 1060AD and from the first turn on, our economy benefits. We hurry lots of improvements in the former Keltoi lands with all the cash we make.

AIs:
Ottomans are the power civ, but they go communism in their war with Zulus and never recover. The other continent is also in almost constant war and the civs in communism. Thus we have to do all the research.

End of Area:
In 1275 Ferdinand ponders the future of his realm: keep peace and go for diplomatic victory, or wipe out the Ottomans and conquer space? Ottomans have mpp with Iroquois, the gem monopoly holders. We are peaceful and proceed as follows: Madrid switched to Palace as UN pre-build. Hurry some libraries, universities to prepare for fission research. And just in case: position stack of tanks between Sogut and Uskudur in case Suleyman makes trouble.
In 1280 we research flight and enter the next age in our quest for diplomatic victory.



PS: We have created roadblocks (red lines) to separate the disjunct Ottoman countries.

v1.21f


Here's a link to my Middle Ages post.


INDUSTRIAL AGE

This is going to seem like a bit of rambling since I mention some of my thoughts while I'm writing. There's a lot of good trades, I'm on the upper end of the group for tech and I'm selling a lot of my tech for gpt. I'm trying to get to Diplomacy as quick as I can with my limited gold input (I didn't expand militarily, was going the very peaceful route.) I do manage to get a few techs from their civs but my tech rate never got down to 4 turns until the end of the age when I got my GA.



550AD Get Medicine, only thing to trade for is Nationalism, but that's WAY too expensive. Going to go for Sanitation next because I expect to trade for Steam soon.

560AD Trade Democracy for gems and world from Iroquois. Trade Iron for Silks, world, 27g from Japan. Trade furs to Zulu for 155g.

570AD Trade horses and furs for 43gpt and 9g from America. America has Steam Power. India still has no new tech?? Going to wait a turn or two to see if Steam is going to come down in price, America wants medicine and 108gpt for it. Kinda steep.

580AD Buy Steam from America for Medicine, 94gpt, and 255g. ARG!! NO COAL!! America has an extra, better buy it now while it's available. Sell MEdicine to Zulu for 104gpt + 10g. Ouch, buy coal for 704g, 12gpt, world. Time to smack down some rails.

600AD Aztecs are almost gone, which might free up a wine.

610AD Waited too long, India has Medicine now.

620AD Sell Sanitation to America for 140gpt, 90g, world. Sell Sanitation to India for 61gpt, 14g, world. Start Electricity.

660AD Japan attacks America freeing up a wine. Buy it for 780g, world. This gives me 8 luxes finally.

670AD Excellent, America just finished Industrialization, so I should be able to trade Electricity for it in 3 turns. Assuming India isn't going for Electricity too. ::crossing fingers::

690AD Buy Industrialization for Electricity, 986g, 41gpt from America. Sell Industrialization to India for 71gpt and 67g. Sell Electricity to Zulu for 149gpt, 10g, world. Sell Steam to Japan for 6gpt, world, 3g.

700AD Working on Sci Method, will get TOE, slingshot to Hoover.

740AD Hurry factory in Barcelona so I can start Hoover next turn.

750AD Discover Sci Method, big picture choose atomic theory, change palace to TOE wasting 144 shields. Barcelona completes factory, Santiago completes TOE, get AT, Electronics, start radio - 10 turns. Start Hoover in Barcelona. Santiago starts factory. Sell Medicine to Joan for 100g, 47gpt.

760AD Renegotiate iron for spices (Japan). Trade Physics for gems (Iroquois). Buy Replaceable Parts from America for Sci Method, Furs, Horses, 120gpt. Gift Ottomans into Industrial Age, hoping to get Nationalism price lowered. But they got Steam Power instead. Hope America starts the Corporation path. Hmm, no rubber in my territory. Zulu and Celts have 2 each in their territory, all connected. Since I'm friendlier with Celts, will go for theirs. Sell Steam to Celts for 21gpt, 63g. Gift Electricity, then Replacable Parts. Trade Incense and Medicine for Rubber. Gift them Industrialization. Sell Steam to Joan for 61gpt, Indust for 2gpt.

830AD Gift Sci Method to Zulu, now cautious.

840AD Radio done, start corp - 5 turns.

850AD Sell AT for Nationalism, 660g, 185gp to America. Trade AT to Zulu for Espionage (they are polite now btw). Trade AT to India for Communism. Sell Communism to Celts for 16gpt, 30g. Sell Communism to France for 13gpt, 20g. Gift Nationalism to Japan, don't want them to go under TOO early.

870AD Corporation done, start Steel. Sell Corporation to America for 780g, 95gpt. Sell Corp to Zulu for 100gpt, 5g.

930AD Steel Done, start refining (6 turns at 100%).

940AD Woohoo! America, India, and Zulu have Refining. Trade Steel for Refining, 200g, 162gpt from India. Sell steel to America for 310g, 43gpt, world. Decide to set research to 0 and buy Combustion when it's available. Now have +1289gpt coming in. Rush stuff all over to increase happiness, allow city growth. Sell steel to Shaka for 35gpt, world. Might as well get more people in the mix to try and get combustion.

950AD (GA this turn) SNEAK ATTACK BY ZULU! Time to make friends. First though, let's get out GA finally. Attack Zulu cav with conq. Conq dies, cav took NO damage. Ok, use med inf to soften up cav. Takes 2 to get it down to 1 point. Next conq takes it out and GA starts! Ok, now I realize how much trouble I'm in. America and Zulu have a MP, and I'm getting a BUNCH of gpt from America. First, give 30gpt to India for MA. Give steel to celts, france - steel, ottomans, england - electricity, Aztecs - Astronomy, Iroquois for MA. Decide not to MPP with America because I don't want to lose Japan as a trade partner. And I think with luck I can turn everyone on America too. Blah, stupid Zulu. I was 4 techs from UN. Start fortifying my French borders (where Zulu are attacking). Use a BUNCH of cav to take out all the cav and knights in or near my land. Take another cav and using my ROP with france, and their rails, get down close to Zulu and take out a cav, and then discover an army of 2 knights/longbow and 2 rifles. Probably more stuff scattered about in french land. Time to use the conquistadors as intended, as scouts. Ok, if I'd done that sooner I could've wiped out army. Instead I take my last 4 cavs (all regulars) and attack the stack. Take out 1 rifle (lose 1 cav), next rifle down to 1hp before lost cav, 4th cav attacks army and gets it down to 2hp! before dying. No more cav available :/ ok, time to see what retaliation I get. And dreaded American attack. Bump up my sci to 100, just in case I'm able to hold off with my current military, so I won't slow down too much on run to diplomacy. Combustion due in 5 thanks to GA. Still have 280gpt coming in, and will lose a net 253gpt from America when it attacks. So I can research at full speed and not be in a deficit (unless I want allies against America too.) Hold breath and hits enter.

960AD Lots of Zulu movement, army runs away of course. America declares war on Ottomans, India, France, but NOT me!! Renegotioate gems for Communism - Iroquois. Trade iron for spices from America. I'm curious to see if an MPP is absolute or if a country can decide not to attack? Ah, now I realize what I've done. Since I got the whole world to attack Zulu, America must eventually attack the whole world. Well, that's fine. They should both be so busy with war that I can push to finish diplomacy while in GA. Probably couldn't have timed my GA better myself. (well I could actually ) Start building artillery to take out infantry.

970AD Renegotiate Iron for silks, 8g, world from Japan. Renegotiate horses, incense, 21gpt for rubber from Celts. Ok, America finally attacks, lost wine, spices, and a LOT of gpt. Give Celts Electronics for MA America. ARG. Just realized I should have sold it to india first. Blah. Give Iroquois Steam for MA America. Sell Electronics to India for 215gpt, 180g. Could have gotten around 340gpt if I'd done this first. Give England sci method for MA America. OK, I allied everyone but Aztecs cause they only have 1 city. Don't want to take rep hit for breaking MA when America steamrolls them. America is hitting Japan pretty hard, hopefully Iroquois can slow that down some.

980AD Help france rail so we can move through easier.

990AD Mass troops near Zulu occupied Iznik.

1000AD Finish Combustion, start Mass production. Woohoo! only 4 turns at 90%. American galleon on way to landing. Sell Combustion to India for 315gpt, 40g, world, and to Celts for 70g, 175gpt.

1010AD Take Iznik.

1020AD Just a note that conqs have been pillaging every resource they can get to in Zulu territory. Set sliders to 80sci 20lux, still 2 turns to MP.

1040AD MP done, start Motor Trans.

1060AD start Palace in Barcelona, due in 9, 2 turns left on motor prod, then flight is 4 or 5 turns, then I will gift ottomans into modern age and cross fingers. If they get fusion I will buy and finish UN. Otherwise I will sell factory to slow down palace. Finished pillaging Zulu, they have no iron, coal, saltpeter, oil or rubber.

1080AD Motor Prod done, start flight at 5 turns.

1120AD Take Zimbabwe out after beating it down with artillery for a couple turns.

1130AD Discover Flight, enter Modern Age. Gift flight to Ottomans. Let's just say I'm still researching.

My game is done but I'll have to wait till next spoiler to talk about the vote.

This pic is from 1100AD. I also have Iznik and Zimbabwe.

Tao and Xevious, I look forward to learning how your votes went. Your games are interesting in the different routes they took to arrive at a diplomatic conclusion.

Tao, I think I would have avoided the domination route as well, given the relative lateness. Are you going to replay it for domination and see how you would have done?

Xevious, you did a great job of trading for techs, thereby accelerating your progress through the tree. This is where it helps to make sure as many civs as possible are at the forefront of research. Too often I write off the laggard civs, when a periodic gifting of tech would help all around.

Excuse me, what's the meaning of the "curve" option? How do I know whether I should choose old <=18 or new >=19?

Originally posted by Aeson
The calculator has been updated to include GOTM20.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/calculator/index.php

Click to expand...

Conquest level - PTW 1.21 on PC.

Here is my previous post detailing how not to run a war:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1049069#post1049069

I somewhat built my reputation back up by giving away luxuries to other civs. Of course, France never like me, but that was to be expected.

Japan was the tech. leader throughout the Industrial ages in my game, builiding the Theory of Evolution and getting way ahead of everyone else in tech.

The other civs were also ahead of me in tech, but at one point I noticed that they seemed to all be going for mass production and flight, so I went after Atomic Theory. I discovered Atomic Theory before most of the other civs and was able to trade it for about 3 or 4 techs.

I then went after Electronics and was also able to trade that for another tech.

I did not have rubber in my own territory, but was successful in trading with the Celts for rubber, eventually trading rubber for oil on a regular basis.

Relatively late in the industrial age, it occurred to me that I had not yet had a GA. Looking at the other surviving civs (America and Zulu and Ottomans were gone), I decided that India was the weakest and declared war against them. They used some Cavalry to invade my territory. I was able to take a stack of conquistadors to defeat one of the cavalry and trigger my golden age. This was a huge boost.

I had signed a MPP with the Aztecs, so when the Iroquois declared war on me, the Aztecs declared war on them, and then the Japanese also declared war on the Iroquois. This was very bad for the Aztecs, but very good for me as the Iroquois and Japanese were too preoccupied with the Aztecs to do much against me. Also, once the Indians were wiped out, the remainder of my continent (French, English, Celts) all declared war on the Japanese and Iroquois. This world war meant that almost all the other civs ended up in Communism or Monarchy.

Around 1500 A.D., I entered the modern ages in the midst of a golden age, but still behind in tech.

Originally posted by RufRydyr



I lost!

Click to expand...

Mee too . It was a quite obvious I was going to lose that one. Ottomans were big and their mighty blakans dragoon wiped Zulus & Indias. I was reling on MPP with them to avoid trouble otherwise I would be history. They were leading in techs and not wanting to sell altough their were polite with me. I suspect that breaching a treaty (ROP) with Brennus caused my downfall in my ability to make good trading deals.

I was surely going to lose by SpaceShip as the only UN vote was not definitive. The final war was when out of the blue English decalres war against the Ottomans joined by the US. They were going to be badly beatten by joints forces of Iroquois / Ottomans and Spanish.
The shear number of armies crossing my territory to wipe the rest of English forces gave me the chicken at some stage. Surely a more intelligent AI would have gone for Conquest ...

My mistake was to let a bit to much the AI sort themselves letting Ottomans marching on other AI. I should have tried to keep the balance between the other AI but I was struggling to keep contact in Techs.

My close friends were France & England and I did not want to damage my rep sith them + they could serve as allies against the Ottomans. In fact this was a mistake. Going after France would have allowed me to expand more naturally rather than going first to Brenus. Brennus was my choice because they did not connect their iron source until late and in previous game they were very weak - which was not exactly the same in this game

Next game, i need to :
- work on expansion with better settler factory
- wroke more closely on trading and diplomacy in order to keep the pace
and I could win

Originally posted by CdB
Mee too . It was a quite obvious I was going to lose that one. Ottomans were big and their mighty blakans dragoon wiped Zulus & Indias. I was reling on MPP with them to avoid trouble otherwise I would be history. They were leading in techs and not wanting to sell altough their were polite with me. I suspect that breaching a treaty (ROP) with Brennus caused my downfall in my ability to make good trading deals.

Click to expand...

If you look at my post above, I also mpped with the Zulu, but carved out prime pieces when they destroyed France and Zulu. Getting Bapedi from Zulus with Leonardo's allowed me to upgrade all my units. These unit then conquered the Keltoi.

You have to distiguish between attitude (polite) and reputation(deal breaker). I lost my reputation when the Zulu broke my trade route with the Indians in the Middle Ages, but my economy was strong enough to make upfront payments for the later Middle Age techs.

And I prevented the wandering AI units by creating 3 blocking lines.

Conquest, Ptw 1.14

The industrial ages ended up being fairly eventful. Entered the era a couple of years ahead of other civs... carried on researching techs and selling them for gpt/luxuries from the others, just to keep them poor but polite. Also continued to sponsor a never ending dogpile on the zulus, which never made any progress, but stopped them rampaging over everyone and gave the AI's something to occupy themselves. This worked even better in this age than the previous one, they all had more money to give me

During this time the Iraqois were destroyed, by their neighbours ganging up on them. I tried to support them and gifted them miltary tradition, cash, horses and saltpeter. Unfortunately they were destroyed before these deals expired. This damaged my reputation, which was a problem, but not too bad as I was mostly selling rather then buying...

I was intending to sit back until the advent of tanks, then roll over a few of my neighbours while heading towards a modern age victory. This plan started well, I was pulling ahead in tech and the TOE helped even more. Built a huge amount of infrastructure. Also snagged Sufferage and Hoovers. Found I had a glut of resources from my assimilation of the French, so sold some of these to the new world for piles of cash. Iron in particular skyrocketed in value.

Unfortunately, with the arrival of replacement parts I realised that I lacked any rubber. The others were nearing this tech and I felt that I could not afford to fall behind militarily, the AI seems to be bad at connecting up resources and I didn't feel like trading. So I got nasty...

I made peace with the zulus (the alliances now expired) and launched an assault/dogpile on the Ottoman empire... I only had a dozen cavalry, as I was waiting for tanks, but I had 30 cannons, all upgraded to artillery and a lot of rush build money. Started immediately and had a very funny RNG war. For example, 2 turns of full bombardment of a large city failed to inflict any significant damage, 3rd turn near levelled it. Despite 60ish veteran cavalry attacks I produced only 2 elite units, however, in 1340, 1 of these finally produced my first great leader . (only 4 wars and 5340 years for that to happen!). Made an army and finally got myself a heroic epic and military accadamy, followed later by the pentagon.

The Ottomans were rapidly a footnote in history, and I had achieved my war objective of stealing their rubber, to celebrate the people upgraded all our riflemen to infantry and founded Rubber Theft War City But their allies, the Indians, were now at war with me. Dogpiled them as well, and the others managed to destroy them quite efficiently. The destruction of an indian army produced my second great leader, finally getting me a forbidden palace in former french territory. With hindsight I really should have built this earlier and closer, I did get a 2 full new rings of productive cities, but didn't really 'need' them at this point.

I ended the industrial age not too long after this. As things stood, I was several techs ahead of my closest competitors, the Aztecs and Japanese... I had a large army of tanks, artillery, infantry and the new spanish air force poised along my border with the primitive zulus... just waiting for any excuse...

All in all this is a most enjoyable game. Thanks to everyone involved in setting it up... First time I've managed to get a deity game past the ancient age, now I'm wishing I'd given the open game a go.

Originally posted by Txurce
Tao, I think I would have avoided the domination route as well, given the relative lateness. Are you going to replay it for domination and see how you would have done?

Click to expand...

Yes, I might do it. Going diplo is solely governed by aiming for a higher GOTM score. I'm sure I can win against the Ottomans since I have tanks and they don't. But it would delay my research by a couple of turns, will cause war weariness since I am a democracy, and thus lead to a lower Jason score, I suppose. Of course, it would be more fun since diplo is the easy way on deity for a cunning human.

Thought I was doing well on my diety game untill I read the results here...

Still playing open class as im yet to loose a game in civ3 but you guys are around 500 years ahead in terms of tec research..

Probably due to the fact of the constant war that the ottomans waged on everyone else.. (except me)
from around 650AD when I entered Industrial age till 1700AD world war when I finally enetered the modern age...

You could say my game had a huge middle/dark ages...

{we cannot discuss elements of the Modern Age tha may include space race or the UN as part of this discussion thread - cracker}

Originally posted by sekong
Excuse me, what's the meaning of the "curve" option? How do I know whether I should choose old <=18 or new >=19?

Click to expand...

Use the new curve, it should default to it. (>=19 is 'greater than or equal to') The old curve is included mainly to allow players to highlight the way the change in curves affects their games, so they can understand the changes better.

Open Class, 1.21f

As my Spanish Democracy entered the Industrial Age, I was a bit behind in tech. Nearly everyone else was already a few techs in. Thankfully, however, war started to brew. Soon, the entire New World was at war. This was splendid as it slowed them down severely. The Zulu, the leaders in my game by far, were in a few of these wars, but due to the ocean in between, it didn't affect them much. This, however, changed when one of the civs at war with the Zulu managed to pull the Indians into the conflict. This set up a massive showdown between the two largest and most prosporous nations on my continent.
The Zulu attacked mainly from the south, but also from the North through conquered Celtic territory. For around 10-15 turns, it was pure stalemate, a state of bliss for me. Finally, however, the Inidan lines began to break, and their downfall was swift thereafter. I, however, was looking forward to the future, and knew I would need votes to win the game. So, I gifted the old French city of Cherbourg to the Indians, and surrounded it on all sides to protect them. On the other continent, Japan, who I had grown friendly with, was being destroyed rapidly by America and the Iroquois. I decided to do the same for them, and I gave them an old Aztec city on the Hispanola island. I also had to surround this city, and watch in awe as the Americans, Japanese, and Zulu continued to mass troops outside of my barricade consiting of Conquistadors, Ironclads, and Destroyers.



The wars were pretty much over for then, as no more massive fighting occured. The damage had been done already though. Except for England, I remained the only Democracy of the world. This, naturally, presented me the long awaited oppurtunity to become the tech leader. As I neared Electricity, I began a Palace prebuild for the TOE. Naturally, by the time I reached Scientific method, I had it nearly completed, and in 1250 AD, I became the tech leader by receiving Atomic Theory and Electronics. I had already begun another prebuild for Hoover's, and in 1300 AD, my nation felt the joy of hydroelectric power. At this point, I was about one tech ahead of the Zulu, who still could research well in Communism due to their huge territory.

As I approached the Modern Age, I stood ready with a prebuild started for the UN and large gifts of gold for my 'friends'.

P.S. Sorry for the picture size, I uploaded it at like 4 am, so I wasn't the most coherent I could have been.

v1.14 Open class

To this date, I haven't been able to take notes or somehow remember what I did through the ages (my memory is so ). The spoiler threads for the previous ages came to late for me to really contribute anything usefull.

Coming out of the Middle Ages, I had managed to trade myself on par with the tech leaders (Ottomans/Japan/India/English). The Ottomans ofcourse got nationalism and although I was running on economy until then, I was not able to buy it from them. At that time, I had no real need for it either. My war to take over France was about to end (with their destruction ofcourse). In my core cities I was steadily building science infrastructure, to start with research of my own.
Here, I guessed the other civs would go for Steam Power, so I went for Medicine instead. This turned out to be the wrong guess. By the time I researched Medicine no other civ had Steam Power. Still gambling that the civs took the Steam Power route, I then researched Sanitation. As it turned out the first tech to be researched by any of the other civs was ...
Medicine ofcourse :suicide: !
So, I had to sell it around to the civs which didn't have it already. By the time I got to Sanitation, Steam Power was available for about 2 turns. I traded for it after I got Sanitation and discovered I had no coal! There was a source in the part of France I hadn't conquered yet. I traded coal for a tech from some civ (memory getting blurry at this point). By the end of this deal France was no more and I had my source of coal .
Around this time, I had a city set up to get me some wonders (didn't get any, except for Magellan's Voyage, which was located in a French city ). I started this city on the palace with the intention to switch to TOE. After Industrialisation was discovered I switched almost all my cities over to factories (including my wonder city). This gave my at least a good five cities (wonder city after 2 turns) in about 4-5 turns which had factories. Wonder city was set to palace again and my next biggest producing city was set to Universal Suffrage with the aim to get Hoover Dam as quickly as possible. I did this fairly well. On reaching Scientific Method, I had 3 turns to go on TOE and after completing that, 2 more turns for the Hoover Dam!
Needless to say, I was leading in tech after this. Here, I think I actually always do the wrong thing. Since Atomic Theory and Electronics are expensive techs, I'm always reluctant to sell them (at cheap prices, because nobody was able to give the full pot). This slows tech research down considerably with me effectively doing it all on my own.
Be that as it may. The Ottomans didn't take my tech lead very well and got very irritating and when I told them to stop tresspassing, they declared war. This was before they had Replaceable Parts, which I had just researched to learn that again I missed a resource! The Ottomans ofcourse did have them and reasonably closeby at that! My reputation was below zero by then for having MA's with the Aztecs and the American's when Japan (the leader at that time) rolled over them. This to say I didn't care anymore what the rest of the civs thought of me! Near the rubber was just enough space to plant a settler with a huge stack of military units. The new city did need to expand for me to profit from the rubber, but from there I charged the Ottomans with Cavs against rifleman and started destroying his cities (eventually filling up the gaps with my own settlers in range of the next cities). When I was a few turns into that war, the Celts were pulled into the conflict against me, but they were a lot further behind in tech and were furious with me for over a thousand years, so no problem. I was also still at war with Japan, but since the Iroquis and the English were doing most of the fighting (at my request), they hardly ever showed up on my radar. The Celts died quickly, netting me Leonardo's and Smith's (man, what a boost for my economy ). Half way through the wars, I finished Motorized Transportation. TANKS!!! :tank:
By the time I got Flight, which proppeled me into the next age, the Ottomans had only a few cities left and I made peace with Japan. (I hope this doesn't exceed this spoiler, but it seems better to finish this war story) The last Ottoman city "Sogut" gave me FOUR wonders (the important ones: Bach, Sistine). The most important thing I learned during these wars: if you're carefull, you can be at war for over 200 years (with several foes) and stay in Democracy!!

To be complete, I left the industrial age just before 1600. At that time, only the English with 2 seperated area's (their start place and former Indian cities) and 4 Iroquis cities were with me on my continent. I had acquired 2 cities on the island (Hispania?) and the other continent was almost equally divided by the Iroquis en Japan. After these wars I had to make a decision about what victory I would go for, but that is for the next spoiler thread.

mudfoot

Thanks.

Originally posted by Aeson


Use the new curve, it should default to it. (>=19 is 'greater than or equal to'

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