*Spoiler1* Gotm21-Melee - Full World Map+Middle Ages

This is the first spoiler discussion thread for the Gotm21-Mediterranean Melee.

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• Absolutely must have full visibility of most of the land areas of the world map, including a view of what would be at least the territory map of every rival with trivial exceptions AND
• You must have contact with all 15 rival civilizations in the game or their remains PLUS
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   [/list=1]
   
   This thread is intended to focus on things that you did in the game that are both on the starting landmasses and in the ancient age.
   
   SUGGESTED MAPS, SCREEN SHOTS and DISCUSSION TOPICS:
   
   1) try to report and discuss how you progressively gained contact with other civilizations in your world.
   2) you may want to discuss what you think the Civilization traits may be for civilizations that are in the game that would have normally been "scientific".
   3) you may want to discuss specifics of how you think the map configuration reflects the character of a real world Mediterranean like situation and any specific strategy elements that you may be using to try and take advantage of or deal with the special characteristics of the map.
   
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   cracker
   
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   Special Technical Note for v1.29 game versions: Any crashes or game aborts that may be occuring at time points when you might gain contact with Spain are probably a result of not having the eight copies of the "spain.flc" files properly installed. You should refer to the special thread on that topic if you might need to double check and make sure that all eight of those files are properly in place on your hard drive.

1.29f

It's about 600BC but thanks to the Keltoi getting an early contact with the "other" civs, and a "prudent" approach to the treasury I'm still in the game. First contact was Germans, Minoans wandered up, got a warrior to the Ottomans and traded for all the others... Even managed to trade Germans+Mins to the Ottos... so the trading side has been much better than GOTM20 for me, even if the start position isn't great.

Even if I am last on the leaderboard! QSC totals were 9 cities, 4 workers, 9 warriors... and yet again I can't make head nor tail of my notes... Grrr...

Even though I have all REQUIRED techs for ancient age, am still researching the govt techs. No one else has them either! A couple of bushfire wars have broken out, but they're a long way from my borders. Paid tribute to keep the AIs off my back.

Anyway, my plan is to build a full set of libraries, then barracks, build a lot of warriors, upgrade and invade. Got a war chest of 1,500 gold plus to pay for it.

Not sure who yet - Minoans land isn't too tempting (lots of hills and a thin section). I reckon Germans then Ottomans, or maybe vice versa via galleys. A new palace built in the middle of that land would be a great 2nd core. Squids are all but extinct by this stage, and I have yet to build a naval unit.

Trading seems an obvious way forward (managed to grab the cotton north of the Minoans) but so far no one else has a connected trade network!

Will edit this post with some maps when I have the right downloads - assuming my 'net connection isn't axed first...

EDIT: Sorry these are 900 pixels wide - my software scales them badly...

Open 1.21

This start is horrible, no freshwater in sight! I send my worker and settler off to find some.

3850BC: Locate freshwater. Fortunately my settler found it so I don't have to spend more time moving.



3750BC: Athens founded
3750BC: Begin 40-turn research of Writing
3550BC: Warrior
3350BC: Warrior
3100BC: Warrior
2900BC: Warrior

3100BC: Contact Minoans
3100BC: Trade Alphabet to Minoans for Pottery + 35g

2900BC: Contact Germany
2900BC: Trade Alphabet to Germany for Warrior Code + 35g
2900BC: Gift Pottery to Germany

2850BC: Declare war on Minoans, capture 2 workers



The Minoan archer moved southeast+south before chasing the refugees west, allowing them to easily escape.

2510BC: Trade 163g to Minoans for peace
2270BC: Granary
2190BC: Worker
2070BC: Contact Russia
2070BC: Trade Alphabet to Russia for Ceremonial Burial + 10g
2070BC: Gift Ceremonial Burial to Germany



1950BC: Discover Writing
1950BC: Start 40-turn research of Literature
1950BC: Trade Writing to Russia for Contact/France + The Wheel
1950BC: Trade Writing + Pottery to France for Masonry + 10g
1950BC: Trade Writing + Masonry to Minoans for Mysticism + 163g
1950BC: Gift all contacts and techs to all civs
1950BC: Build embassies

1350BC: Colossus
1325BC: Pay Minoan demand of 26g
1325BC: Worker
1225BC: Contact Ottomans

1150BC: Trade WM to Germany for TM + 55g
1150BC: Trade WM to Minoans for TM
1150BC: Trade WM to France for TM + 11g
1150BC: Trade WM to Russia for TM + 14g
1100BC: Trade WM + 19g to Ottomans for TM

1100BC: The Romans have been destroyed.
900BC: Turn off research

I am one turn away from Literature, but my Pyramids prebuild is nowhere near completion. I can't risk a civ demanding Literature.

750BC: Pay Russian demand of TM + 37g
750BC: 3 workers join Athens



625BC: Contact Celts
590BC: Minoans build Pyramids
570BC: Discover Literature
570BC: Trade Literature to Ottomans for 173g
570BC: Trade Literature to Russia for 135g
570BC: Trade Literature to Germany for Worker + 25g
570BC: Trade Literature to Minoans for 76g
570BC: Trade Literature to France for 3g
550BC: Great Library
550BC: Golden Age

For the rest of the game, my strategy was to sell new techs for whatever I could get, then give them away free to all civs.

370BC: Germany beats me to the Great Lighthouse by 3 turns
350BC: Colosseum
330BC: Galley
310BC: Galley
270BC: Enter Middle Ages
270BC: Buy contact with Egypt + Carthage + Hittites + Zululand



I got most of the remaining contacts through trading, but my late galleys did help. More on that in the next spoiler.

I'll post more tomorrow when I am not quite so upset...
It is 10ad in my game....and I am quite simply having one of the worst games of my life. The RNG is really putting it to me. I'm confident I will win, but this will certainly not be competing for best game of the month.

btw..by the time I made contact with Rome (630 BC), he was down to 1 city.

I didn't have a chance to contact with Rome. It was destoryed long ago

Here was my 'army' at 1000 BC:


Founded at start position.

QSC stats:
15 towns (2 of them extorted)
153 territory tiles=10.2 tiles/city
6 granaries
2 settlers
11 workers
611 gold
191 shields
142 food
27 citizens (2 specialists, 24 others happy with 100% luxury, 1 content)
6 contacts, 6 embassies
All tier-1 techs, Iron Working, Mathematics, Writing, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Mysticism.
Making from +23 to +38gpt depending on luxury rate.

My 2nd city was a worker/4 turns factory
My 3rd city was a settler/4 turns factory

Got hit with barbs 3 times, stealing 26 and 47 gold, and 21 shields towards a granary, before the Minoans took care of that camp.

RCP rocks!

Rome was destroyed early in my game as well. I might end up regretting going the conquest option as the game isn't quite as hard as thought it might be. I got Great Library as well as Pyramids which got me off to a great start and there was no competition for land for a long while. I had to sell my soul to get contacts with other civs, but it's always well worth it when you have the Great Library. I gained contact with all civs in short number of turns but Atlantis was the last to be discovered. I kept looking at the histograph to see my culture overhwhelming everyone else...until I discovered the Atlanteans... where did they get all that culture???
Easter Egg-wise The Peltast unit rocks! I wish we were given this unit! There are so many strategic possibilities. It also made attacking the Minoans harder than would otherwise have been.
Speaking of combat, I'll don't think I'll try sailing to the weaker countries to clobber them, I'll just hit my larger neighbours and make a land route.

Open ptw 1.21

Yeah, in my game Atlantis too has an amazing culture, some special builidng maybe? I'm gaining rapidly as I'm trying for 20k this time. Since all but the first GOTM where Space Race wins I wanted to try something else this month. My QSC will not score high again, but I have a few more cities than Dave .
As I founded on the spot my Athens has built the Colossus earlier but the GL was a few turns later than Dave's.
It'll be nice to be able to compare notes, even if I am not doing it as a OCC.

Here's the minimap @ 290AD

Open PTW 1.21

I don't do the QSC but I should if only to slow me down in the initial stages of the game. I have resurrected what happened from my saves and restarts as I keep all of those. First I again played too fast and forgot to save at the right times. The first save was at 1625 BC instead of 2000 BC, I really blew that one, and the next save was at 900 BC so figuring out what should have been at 1000 BC was tricky.

My first move was the worker west onto the lambs hoping to find water. When that turned out to be a bust I was racked with indecision and spent quite a lot of time using the control/shift 'N' key to try to see what was under the fog SE,SE. I was sure it was a resource but not exactly sure it was sheep. I just took a chance and went south. Now looking at the 1625 BC save I don't know how I saw the lake when I built Athens but I did. Anyway the worker immediatly went south to bring water to the two sheep tiles.

I started researching Pottery but it seems to me I traded for it before I finished researching it. After the first settler was built, I built a granary in Athens. I think with a 4 population the production was 7 shields and +4 food. I don't know how that translates into a settler factory but Athens was abandoned in the turn before 450 BC to move the palace to Thermoplylae SE of the lake.

At 1000 BC I would have had 8 cities and a settler who founded a city in 950 BC. I had 5 workers, 6 warriors, 2 archers, 5 swordsmen, and 4 Hoplites. I was also 4 turns into a peace treaty with those sneaky Germans who had attacked me. That was the reason for all the troops. I had 1 granary, 2 barracks, and 2 temples. I was 16 turns away from Map Making and had Iron Working, Horseback Riding, Mysticism, and Masonary most of which I traded for.

I left a warrior parked at the NW tip near the Ottomans waiting in vain for them to come into view. I lost 2 galleys to squid, the first was just an ambush, the second I tried to destroy and didn't get a single hit point on.

The barbarian villages were extremely active and it was unwise to try to settle near them. I had a swordsman get to elite when some barbarian horsemen attacked him on a hill. I don't know how many times the AI tried to settle on the volcano island but there were huge numbers of bararians there.

I think that is all. It is too bad I didn't do better for the start after that great starting move but playing late at night isn't a good idea. My first save that I restarted from was 630 BC and that was saved about 3:00 AM on the 1st of July. I tried to go to sleep and decided at 4:00 AM I wasn't going to make it so played until 5:30 AM before exhaution forced me to bed for good. That save was 290 BC. I had the good sense not to try to resume the game again until I could devote some quality time to it so waited until later in the evening of July 1st to resume. I played until 10 AD and finally saved on the correct date. That was about the time I qualified for this spoiler

, open.

My game started pretty badly. I built 2 granaries, but I never managed to get them anywhere as fast as Bamspeedy. I also decided not to use RCP on that long and narroq peninsula, but it seems that was a mistake after all. I sure will check out the QSC:s of this game.

By 1000 bc I only had 9 cities, 5 workers and 15 warriors.

Paris built the Pyramids, Berlin the Oracle, while I managed to get the Colossus.

The Romans were destroyed in my game, too, in 630 bc. The Atlantians surely have some tricks up their sleeve.

In 510 bc one of my galleys manage to land a warrior on a hut, and I get Polytheism from it. Too bad most of the civs already know it. The Squids take care of my galley the very next turn.



I had seen a border of some unknown civ south of the French, so I parked a warrior on the coast next to it and waited from someone to come by on the other side.



That happed in 450 bc, and it turned out to be the Hittites. Get 321 gold & contact with Egypt, Persians & Carthago + WM for WM, Maths, Poly & Lit. Persia gives contact to Zulu for WM. I don't sell anything to my own continent, since only Ottomans have a little gold to spare.

In 370 bc I declare war on the Minoans. My army consists of 26 swordsmen. In 170 bc Knossos (Minoan) completes great Lighthouse. My attack is slowly but surely advancing on them. Their bombardment has given me some extra damage, and their GA also makes things harder.

90 bc Buy contact with Babylon from French for 40g. Sell my WM to them for WM & 126 gold (all they have). Buy Monarchy from Ottomans for 720 g & WM. Trade it for Currency with Kelts. Enter new era, get Monotheism. Start at Theology @ 40. Revolution, 5 turns.

My map and army in 90 bc:



In 50 bc I get contact with Atlantis & Spain. This was how Atlanti's map looked like in 10 ad:

Well, I think I'm a shoe-in for idiot of the month. I finished the QSC with an impossibly low 3 cities. You see, I forgot about my mistakes from QSC19 and attacked early. I got nothing from the Germans, but managed to waste lots of units and a GA. Nothing like a GA with only 1 city to really slow someone down. I guess I better start at the beginning.

Founded the capital on the start location and built a barracks 1st. Built two vet Hoplites and two vet warriors. Did some tech trading with the Germans and then declared war in 2750bc. I was fortified on a hill and expected them to attack, so of course they just walked right past me and headed for my capital. I got behind them and built some vet archers. Wiped those units out and headed for Germany with my stack of doom. Wasn't real happy with the RNG. Was pretty unhappy when my elite archer on a hill was defeated by a reg archer.

Finally spotted the beautiful floodplains and menudo S of capital in 1150bc. I had made a beeline for Map Making, but got beat to it by 25 turns. Nobody would trade it to me and I was prebuilding in city 2 (which had Iron appear under it!). Only Germany would trade it to me, so in 1100bc I gave Germany 73g, 6gpt, and peace for peace and Map Making. I didn't even slow the Germans down with all that war. I then traded Wmap and Map Making to a couple of others for some techs and gold. Then I focused on wealth and settlers and let the tech race go on without me. {I continued to take notes past the QSC period which I haven't done in a long time.}

In 800bc I guess someone met the other continent group because like 5 or 6 civs all talked to me during the turn change.

I really wanted Republic but nobody would sell it to me for any amount of gold. I decided to try a different tact and it worked out pretty well. I decided that since I get a free tech in the age change, I would trade (everything I had including my only iron) for the missing ancient age techs. This was in 430bc. (I guess I can't go into details in this thread since it includes a tech from the 2nd age.) But I will say this. I could not believe how much they wanted for a World Map--412g and 34gpt!!! Got it in trading, though. Very pretty map.

I completed the Great Lighthouse around this time which was pretty cool. Guess I forgot to record the date, but it was 27t after 1100bc whatever year that is.

I had a pretty Ruf QSC, pretty Ruf rest of Spoiler 1, and it just got worse from there...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, anybody else see this:


Complete crappy QSC21.xls:

Conquest

Click to expand...

Year Event
4000 BC Established Athens at initial location. Sent Warrior SE to discover Sheep. Now have sheep, lambs and olives in reach. With four workers I’ll send one to sheep and three to lambs and on to olives. Started researching pottery at 20%.
3900 My warrior found more lambs, sheep and goats to the SE. There are also small lakes which should be useful for irrigation.
3800 There are more goats, olives and incense to the SW!
3750 Produced a warrior. I’m reluctant to use my treasure chests to produce more units because I’m losing money as it is at only 20% research.
3650 Rocks to the NW. Oysters, too. So many resources, but still population 1 in Athens.
3550 Finished Hoplite with aid of first TC.
3500 Athens finally reaches pop 2.
3300 Athens completes 2nd Hoplite. Begin first settler.
3100 We appear to be on a peninsula. Fits for Greece. There is a strait to the Northwest. Is that Crete I see?
3000 Athens completes a settler. I’m torn between heading NW to increase my cash flow or SE towards the fresh water. Athens is not growing very fast so I think I’ll go for the water first. My income is now –3 per turn and I’m down to 51g.
2950 The happiest nations in the World! I don’t make the top 8.
2900 Minoan warrior appears. I trade alphabet for warrior code. Establish Sparta in the forest next to the small lake.
2850 Looks like Sparta will grow much faster than Athens and my cash flow also improved dramatically. Upped research to 50%, trying to finish pottery.
2430 Finished Pottery. Spotted first barbarian SE of Sparta. Started researching Writing. Go down to 10% since it’s going to take 40 moves anyway.
2310 Sparta finishes settler number 2. Starts granary. Sending settler to incense and olive area SW of Athens.
2190 Built Thermopylae on an incense square.
1950 Athens builds a settler. Will go to the money squares on the NW coast. Upped research on writing to 50%. All Minoans have to trade is iron working and I can’t afford any deal they’ll make.
1870 Founded my 4th city, Corinth.
1750 Meet Germany. Buy the Wheel for 100g + 1gpt.
1650 Buy Ceremonial Burial from the Minoans for 50g. My treasury is down to 24 now.
1575 Established city #5 Delphi E of Athens. I have 4 cities equidistant from Athens. We’ll see how it helps production. I need to break out and go get the nearest horses now.
1400 Finally completed Writing. Traded it to Minoans for Iron Working and 25g. There is iron next to Athens and I’ll soon have a backup in my new horses city. I’ll now start Map Making at a minimum level so I can build my treasury back up.
1325 Pharsalos established.
1275 Bought Horseback Riding from the Minoans for 85g + 2gpt. Buy Masonry from Germans for 25g and 5 gpt.
1175 The most powerful nations in the World. We’re 6th, Minoans 3rd. Number 1 is Atlantians! Minoans and Germans have contact with 4 other civs and they want way too much for communications.
1000 I have 7 cities and a score of 195.

Fairly slow start but I'm still in the middle of the pack score-wise so I blame it on the terrain. Water wasn't as much of a problem as I thought it would be. Extra worker in Conquest helped.

I got The Great Lighthouse in Athens but it didn't help much as squids kept killing my galleys. After I had two veteran galleys (fortified) sunk by squids I watched a Minoan regular galley defeat a veteran squid! As a result all of my contacts came from trading after Minoans and Germany.

Minoans have no iron so should be fairly weak.

PTW Open

first of all i would say i love this map! very nice design! have read several times of the romans being defeated. happened in my game also, around 1200bc.
i wanted to do something different from going for the pyramids and i decided on the great library. did the 40-turn research on writing and literature and held onto lit until i had 1 turn left on the GL and sold it around. got very lucky with the pyramids being built by germany. they will be my second target, after the minoans. french were the first to have contact with the center continent. i bought the cheapest contact and went thru a big trading session to get what i thought was the WM and contacts with everyone. once i found out it wasn't, i sent out several galleys and made first contact(and still exclusive) with atlantis and spain. got the full WM around 170BC and had previously entered the middle ages at 210BC.

Bamspeedy- would love to see a screenshot of your RCP build!

PTW - 1.21F - OPEN

Moved worker west to lambs to see if he could see water. Settled on the spot and built Athens in 4000 BC.

Sparta founded in 2800 BC
Thermopylae founded in 2190
Corinth founded in 2030
Delphi founded in 1400
Pharsalos founded in 1375
Argos founded in 1150
Mycenae founded in 1075
Plebos Nexia founded in 1050
Herakleia founded in 710
Qitaiodea founded in 690
Brempalonica founded in 650

I always go for the Great Library, but with all the pre-game discussion about Islands and Predator naval movement, I was
undecided for the longest time as to whether to build the Colussus, GL, or Lighthouse. I finally decided that the GL was
still the way to go. Got beat to it by the Ottomans, leaving me with the decision of whether to build the Colussus (1 turn),
or Lighthouse (2 turns). Decided on Lighthouse.

Germans Build Pyramids - 850 BC
Ottomans Build GL - 825 BC
France Builds Oracle - 825 BC
Greece Builds Lighthouse - 800 BC
Russia Builds Colussus - 610 BC

First major trading session:

Traded Germany Alphabet, Contact w/Minoans, and 110 gold for Contact with Ottomans, France, and Russia.
Traded Ottomans Alphabet, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial, and Contact with France for The Wheel, Masonry, and 10 gold.
Traded Russia Alphabet for Warrior Code and 10 gold.
Sold France Ceremonial Burial for 10 gold (all they had)
Traded Minoans contact with Russia, France, Ottomans, The Wheel, and 56 gold for Iron Working.

Observations:

Only ran into 3 squid, and 1 small area of fog.
The Great Lighthouse has done me almost no good at all.
During the pre-game discussions, lack of food was the major concern. It seems to me that lack of shields is much worse, as
there are not that many extra shields to be had on flat ground, and it takes forever for our non Industrious workers to mine a hill
or mountain.

Civ 1.29f Open
Practice sessions that I played on the Emperor level GOTM 19 start paid off. First time I have the Pyramids by 1000 BC (actually several turns earlier).

Notes:
It took a long time to make ANY contacts as a granary was my early priority. First contact at 2470 BC with Minoans, second contact around 1600 BC with Germans. I played like I was on island start for a while, going full tilt on research for Pottery and then Writing and hand building the Pyramids as there is a lot of open land.

1000 BC Summary:
8 cities, 2 settlers, 4 workers, 11 warriors all regulars
Pyramids in Sparta (2nd city)
Techs behind by Mapmaking, 0 gold in treasury.

Plan is to build warrior army and upgrade to swords to attack Minoans.
+ Bill

Civ3 v1.29 Predator

I didn't get a good start...
By 1000BC I had 9 cities and 2 settler. I had more than 800 gold but only 6 contacts. I got Literature from a goodie hut in 1750BC.
In 1400BC I trade for Map Making and maps. I could see a purple border south of the French, but they didn`t get contact before the QSC deadline. At this time I was researching Republic and I was missing only Construction, Currency and Politheism. The germans attacked the minoans very early in my game and captured Knossos and Zacros. The minoans captured back Knossos before 1000BC. Around 900BC Russia demanded TM + 60 gold, I refused and they declared war. Next turn the germans demanded TM + 61 gold, I refused again and they declared war.
I signed peace with both without fighting a single battle.
In 690BC the Minoans got contact with persia, but didn't trade it with the other civs in the starting continent. I bought it. The persians had only one contact with zulu and zulu had contact with all the other civs except the Romans, but I bought contact with them from the Atlanteans. In the end of this turn I had more than 2000 gold and I was in the middle ages. In 610BC I finished the research of Republic and gifted it to all the other civs.

[edit] I use RCP in my game at distances 4.0, 6.0 and 9.0. They were not complete rings but I'm satisfied with the results.

1.21f Open Class

I started off founding on the starting position. By 2630 BC I contacted the "Peltast Plague" to the south. I did some minor trades with them, but nothing big. I expanded alright, and by 1000 BC I had 10 cities and a settler en route.
I was beginning to fall behind in techs at this point, however, as I was funning science at minimum to build my treasury. This changed at 850 BC, when I bought mapmaking from the Germans for several gpt. After trading it with the known world, I netted 4 techs and maps galore.

So much for the classic Greco-Roman rivalry, as Rome is dead in 390 BC. The only thing I ever found left of them was a couple of roads and old abandoned mines. Apparently Atlantis's steroid enhanced start was too much for them.

Around 10BC I used my harbor in Athens to trade luxuries with France for Currency and Polytheism. At about 10 AD I attacked the Germans, using two attack forces. One, consisting of around 25-30 swordsmen, goes up the gut towards their highly populated cities. The second, conisting of Horsemen being rushed to the front, flanked the Western front of the Germans and drove them back, taking their frontier cities. The war was going well, with the exception of rampant flipping. This leads me to believe that the Germans were reassigned with the Religious trait. As for the other science civs, I think Russia went Militaristic, Persia Commercial, and the Ottomans....well, I was never quite sure.

A tragic suprise caught me in the early in the war. Germany signed the Zulu up against me, which was nothing. The Zulu, however, bribed the Minoans to attack me. This was important because I was purposely keeping Hoplites away from the front line until I reached Republic. With no offensive troops in the south, I had to watch in horror as that first Peltast died at the feet of my hoplites, sparking a Despotic golden age. I received Republic a few turns in, and I had to make a tough decision: Go with the rest of my GA, or hope for a short anarchy and live the rest of it in a blissful Republic? Well, I decided to risk it, and paid with 6 turns of wasted GA. However, I think the remaining GA in Republic was worth it. I was able to get all of my core cities outfitted with Marketplaces, Libraries, Temples and such.

All in all, as the Middle Ages came, Greece was riding high on a GA and progressing well through Germany.

I've got to say that this is my first 'real' try after giving up on 'GOTM20 - Spain' after a bad experience on the Conquest game. Man, those Zulus were strong!

This time I thought I'd try the Open class game. And after an initial 'decent' start, I was doing pretty good. Yeah, I can do this. Or so I thought.

After being harassed by the Germans and Celts for tribute too often, I refused. That's when all hell broke loose. It was at this point that I was getting ready to take the Minoans out of the game, so it was disappointing timing.

The Celts signed a ROP with the Germans, and they eventually teamed up against me. Then the Ottomans chipped in, bringing the Hittites along with them.

Fighting four CIVs at the same time is hard work, and we Greeks subsequently lost some cities and territory as a result of not giving in to their preposterous requests of 'Delphi' each time.

Eventually they settled for GPT to sign for peace, and it was something like 84gpt between the four of them to keep them happy. Fortunatley, I'd already build up a few trade routes with other CIVs, so they paid for them.

<snip>Deadloss, it would no be possible to discuss Democracy in the limits of this spoiler thread. -cracker <snip>

The biggest disappointment was losing out on the GL - by three turns! I seemed to be the only CIV with Literature at one point, I was the only one building the GL and was plagued by other CIVs wanting various agreements/trades for it. Each time I refused and thought I would get the the GL first. Only to find out shortly afterwards that another CIV had managed to research it, with Athens having 23 turns left before I completed it.

Lo and behold, that CIV traded it with every other CIV and before I knew it, each of them were switching their Wonders to the GL.

For 20 turns I had my fingers crossed and waved them at the monitor each time the 'press RETURN or SPACEBAR' came up. Twenty turns I tell you! Sweat was dripping down my face, nails were frantically being bitten - despite being crossed, my heart was in my mouth, and I was telling myself that if I get the GL everything would be rosy and I'd be on for a good score.

I lost out on it by three turns. And the worst of it was, the Minoans built it! The land around their capital, Knossos, was rubbish - not suitable for good shield production unless the hills were mined. I had held off destroying them until I got the GL. After that was built, they were gonna be dust. And then THEY had the audacity to build it!?!

That was it, all downhill from then on.

Until now however. All is not lost as I'm on the mend again, and fighting to stay in the race for the Space Victory.

From a completely lost situation, it's looking a lot better.

I daren't say too much about the game though. It's my first time in the event, and wouldn't want to drop myself in it by blabbing too much.

I am thoroughly enjoying the experience though. I reported in the past that I used to save the 4000BC and scan the surrounding area before reloading the 4000BC save. I've now got to report that the game is SO much better now I don't know where to build and what's 'round the corner. It's given me a big buzz again.

Nice one Cracker and the team.
Keep up the good work!! Please! I'm hooked now.

Well, I suppose I'd better say from the off that I am playing a personal 20K challenge against A Space Oddity.

The start is awful for a 20K, but I settled there anyway. I built 4 warriors and then a settler on turn 20. I then built a temple, the Collossus and then the Oracle which finished at Exactly 1000BC.

My research path was the 40 turn writing and Lit. I traded Alphabet, but not writing or Lit at all, just to have some chance of getting the great library. As I didn't have the chance to build an aqueduct, I could only get 13 spt out of the capital, but it was just enough to get me the great library, but not enough to get me the hanging gardens, which I missed by 4 turns and had to dump 97 shields as the Great wall was completed by the minoans on that turn. Germany built the Pyramids, which was the best bit of luck I had in the game. Anyway, building TGL triggered my GA in despotism. I hadn't realised this would happen.

The whole of the starting peninsula is quite difficult from a population point of view. Getting irrigation to the south of the hills means irrigating right through the capital radius, which was a pain.

I liked the Minoan Javelins, cool UU, but weak. I used the Minoans to fish for leaders, perfectly unsuccessfully. They had one city left at the end of the spoiler and I still had no GL. The Germans were already dead at this point, and I was carefully manually building th FP up there in a City I built myself to the North of Berlin and a carefully constructed perpetual WLTKD. Would still eventually take 40 turns though.

Any road up I have been at war at all times since around 500BC and I'm having a blast.

If only I could get a few leaders... about 12 would be nice.

Thanks for amending my spolier so quickly, Cracker.

And apologies if I overstepped the line in the sand.

It's just so exciting sharing experiences...

(you know how it is)