*Spoiler2* - Gotm21-Melee - End of Medieval Age

This is the Mid Game spoiler discussion thread for the Gotm21-Mediteranean Melee

Again take a few moments to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the new spoiler rules.

This is the second spoiler thread to support discussion of the Gotm21-Mediterranean Melee. If possible, you should have already summarized your ancient age progress in a short report in the Early Discussion thread for this game.

For many players the game could end in this era.

Every player must pass two tests in order to be able to view or participate this spoiler thread. These two tests define a dividing line where knowledge and events prior to the line may be discussed but knowledge that you may have from later in the game may not be included.

For Gotm21-Mediterranean Melee:

• you must have the full world map and contact with all 15 rivals or their remains (just to make sure this carries over from teh previous spoiler) AND
• you must have reached the End of the Medieval Age and discovered Magnetism and The Theory of Gravity (or already submitted your game) but you may not discuss any feature of the industrial age with respect to technologies, wonders, or resources. (If you discuss or hint about locations of Coal, Oil or Rubber you will be forced to drink hemlock and attone for your poor judgement.)

Information in this thread must be from BEFORE BOTH OF THESE EVENTS.

You may discuss continuations of Cavalry or warfare that may include encounters with riflemen defenders of you enemies but essentially this thread is intended to be a discussion of the Middle ages and nothing beyond that point in time.

We are again particularly interested in discussions of any encounters that you may have with other civilizations and how they may have advanced in technology and/or upgraded units into the offensive and defensive units that could be available in the middle ages.

Also help us to understand how and where you decided to place your Palace and/or Forbidden Palace to support the ending moves of your game.

What were your impressions of the behavior of the other Civilizations during this phase of the game? Try to touch on all the surviving civs and what you thought they were doing.

There should be ample opportunity to discuss the strategic use of Galley based seapower at this point in time for the game. Some players may play an almost exclusive land game upto this point in time while others will take advantage of special strategic positioning to use galleys to craft the ancient age equivalent of railroads in selected regions.

What was or has been your impression of the Peltast unit as it has played in this game so far.

The games may also subdivide into 4 major categories at this point in time based on the general regions where the players may have chosen to position the palace and forbidden palace.

Have fun!! Again that's what this game is all about.

Open 1.21

Part 1: 4000BC to 270BC

270BC: Free Engineering
230BC: Marketplace
210BC: Hoplite
190BC: Hoplite
170BC: Trade 320g to Ottomans for 3 workers
150BC: Temple
110BC: Suicide galley contacts Atlantis + Persia + Spain

Atlantis had 600g in their treasury when I made contact. They paid me all of it for my world map, and then I made 400g more by selling their map to the tech leaders (who weren't paying me money for the GL techs).

70BC: Both galleys are sunk by squids
30BC: Harbor
10BC: Begin 5-turn anarchy
30AD: Contact Babylon



70AD: Become a Republic
110AD: Library
250AD: Courthouse
330AD: Cathedral

340AD: Start Sun Tzu as a wonder prebuild
450AD: Start research on Printing Press at 100% science
540AD: Germany builds Sun Tzu
540AD: Change prebuild to Sistine Chapel
540AD: Trade route with Atlantis is broken for the first time

This route was broken very often by barbarians. Almost every time I got a tech from the GL I would sell it to Atlantis for the same luxuries. The interesting part is, my reputation never suffered! Apparently a broken trade route only hurts the resource owner's reputation.

550AD: Civil disorder

Here I made another interesting discovery. I forgot to replace my luxuries while checking my reputation, so the city went into disorder. But my research continued as normal! Even in disorder a city produces its normal gold/science/entertainment.

570AD: All civs discover Printing Press 5 turns ahead of me
570AD: Buy Printing Press for 10g
580AD: Education + Chemistry from the Great Library
580AD: I have 5329 gold + 72gpt from other civs as the GL expires.
580AD: Start research on Astronomy

I will get a discount for my research when Astronomy is discovered.

620AD: France builds Sistine Chapel
620AD: Change prebuild to Leo's
640AD: Half the civs discover Music Theory
670AD: Spain builds Leo's
670AD: Sell Saltpeter to Russia for Music Theory
670AD: Change prebuild to Bach's.

Astronomy will be discovered soon, so I can't risk completing Bach's and having the other civs cascade to Copernicus if they get Astronomy on the same turn.

680AD: No Astronomy. Bach's will finish in 1 turn, re-arrange citizens to delay it.
680AD: Still no Astronomy. Half the civs discover Metallurgy.
690AD: Still no Astronomy. Sell temple to trigger disorder and delay Bach's
700AD: Still no Astronomy. Germany builds Bach's.
710AD: Production auto-changed to University.
710AD: Half the civs discover Astronomy.

710AD: Buy Astronomy for 19gpt, change University prebuild to Copernicus
840AD: Copernicus's Observatory
890AD: University
910AD: Buy Banking + Economics for 1350g
910AD: Start Smith's as a wonder prebuild
910AD: Sell Economics for Physics + Metallurgy + Navigation
910AD: Start research on Theory of Gravity

940AD: Pay Russian demand of 100g
940AD: Sell Saltpeter to Russia for Magnetism + 317g + 38gpt
940AD: Sell Magnetism for Military Tradition
950AD: Buy Theory of Gravity for 950g



Despite some bad luck with anarchy and wonder timing, I am doing extremely well. I only needed enough gold to buy my way into the industrial age, but I made it with 4400g to spare! I have Colossus, Copernicus, and soon Newton's, to keep me competitive in research.

I will discuss my industrial tech monopolies in the next spoiler.

I entered the middle ages in something like 390 BC, when I traded for construction. My research was slowly progressing as a 40 turn gambit for republic. My free tech was monotheism (I didn't get to choose, but I'm running PTW1.21f )

I built my FP by hand in a city 5 tiles S of Athens, preparing a later palace jump to the fertile Ottoman lands, at that time I was already preparing my invasion as I had founded one city in the coast of the ottoman lands, to serve as my beachhead. I completed the FP roughly at the same time as I connected the iron near AThens and I immediately upgraded my 25-30 warriors to swordsmen. My war with the Ottomans started in 130 BC (I allied with the Celts, Minoans and Germans just to keep them from allying with the Ottomans) went great and in 30 AD I executed a Free Palace Jump to the former Ottoman Capital Sogut, which also contained the Pyramids! (Thanks for a great article, DaveMcW! ) Now I had 2 productive cores...

In the next five turns I got 3 GL's, Pyrrhus, Hector and Ulysses. With these I rushed Sun Tzu's and the Hanging Gardens in Sogut (best available at that time) and I kept the third in reserve for Leonardo's Workshop. Around this time I also switched to republic. Now the Ottomans had only five citiies left and my MA's had expired. My swordsmen were, unfortunately, running out of steam and I was forced to sue for peace, getting another city from the Ottomans. The Celts continued to decimate the Ottomans, but unfortunately one of my cities culture flipped back to the Ottomans, and eventually became their capital as it was their last city remaining.

Immediately after switching to republic, which I also traded away for monarchy and feudalism and some gold, I began researching the:
Engineering -> Invention -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry -> Metallurgy -> Militarry Tradition path, to do a mass upgrade to cavalry. I traded away invention for theology and gold just before I rushed Leo's in Sogut with the previously mentioned third leader.

In the 20 turn peace period I built library's and marketplaces in all my cities followed by lots of horsemen. After 20 turns I ended the misery of the Ottoman empire.
I got military tradition in 600 AD and I immediately upgraded my 75 horsemen to cavalry and attacked the Minoans the next turn, after allying with the Celts and Germans (again to keep them from allying against us). I took all the Minoan cities in 5 turns (including Knossos, which had the Great Library and IIRC also the Colossus), but they had one settler out somewhere which I haven't been able to find so far. I got only education from the Great Library and I immediately started doing 4-turn research on the required Middle age techs.

Unfortunately, due to my MA against the Minoans I coudn't go to war with the Germans immediately after taking all the Minoan cities, without destroying my rep. I spent this time building universities and banks and the occasional cavalry, as well as rushing libraries in the formerly Minoan lands.

In 800 AD my MA's expired and I went to war with the Germans. In the first assault I got 2 GL's Jason and Aeson, which were used to rush the Sisitine Chapel and Bachs Cathedral. The computer then proceded to check all the wonders I had already built/conquered and found I was due a GA...
In 820 AD I discovered Theory of Evolution and entered Industrial Age. By this time I had taken 6 or 7 German cities and joined with France and the Celts in my crusade against the Germans.
I'm still going 4-turn research and I've got Newton's coming up in 3 turns in Sogut, so it's going just fine....

In response to some of crackers Q's:
The peltast was OK, I guess, but couldn't stand up to my cavalries.

The AI's have been pretty peaceful so far. Besides the wars I started there has been only one other (I think). The Zulu and Hittites tried to take out Carthage but got nowhere...

A couple of the AI's are close behind, techwise. These are Spain, Russia, France, Persia, Carthage and the Zulu. I just sold them physics for heaps of gold. The others are hopelesly behind...

This is what the world looked like in 820 AD, the beginning of my Industrial age...

Spoiler 1

As stated in the previous spoiler I couldn't beg, borrow, or steal Republic, so I decided to try a different tact since I was so far behind in techs. I decided to trade for the missing ancient age techs and then see if I could get Republic in trade from my free tech. In 430bc I traded everything I had (300g, Wmap, 10gpt) and even my only source of iron for Math, Construction, Currency, and Poly. Got Engineering for free and was able to trade for Republic, 1000g, and 58gpt. Also got some luxuries and finally a World Map. During this turn a civ was finally willing to sell me Wmap for only 34gpt and 412g. Luckily I found a civ willing to accept a tech for it.

The Great Lighthouse turned out to be a great waste! Wish I'd built the Great Library instead!

A few turns before France had declared war on me after a refused tribute. In 390bc the Frogs would have accepted 280g for peace, but no, I had to wait and see if it would go down. The next turn they got an alliance with the Celts against me who then got an alliance with the Minoans against me. The Pelfast was nasty against my tiny army and even against my swordsmen once I got my iron back. The RPG was lousy. Had to give 550g to Germany for an alliance against Minoans. Got Egypt to ally against Celts for Republic. The embassies I had to build really drained my treasury. I just couldn't catch a break in this game! When a French horseman appeared beside an undefended city I gave them 23gpt and 8g for peace. Gave the Minoans 5gpt and 10g for peace. Btw, one of them had gotten the Hittites to declare war on me, too. Finally in 70bc was at peace with everyone again.

In 90bc I got beat to Feudilism by 2 darn turns. It was all the warring against poor little me!

Since I finally had some military by this time I then focused on settlers and libraries. I was very tempted to quitt a couple of times. Especially after the defeat last GOTM and finishing this QSC with only 3 cities. Like 5 or 6 times just as I was 1 turn away from building a city on or by a resource or luxury another civ built on it or beside it. My score continued to be in dead last. This was just such a frustrating period as I attempted to claw my way up. (Don't feel too sorry for me, though. I'm a determined civ veteran and things got better in the future. Stay tuned for more in the next spoiler......)

I've prepared a very thorough writeup for this spoiler, but just need to insert some dates from my notes at home. Could someone advise me on how to post pics too? I'm probably just being thick, but they'd really add to the post!

Thanks

Kello

1.29f

EDIT: KELLO, this link explains how to post images - but you need some screen grabber software as well to take the pictures.

How to upload images


Well, things got pretty good after 600BC. I decided to commit on an invasion of the Ottomans, mainly because they had the Pyramids. Also, the land area looked very nice for a new core - lots of grassland, rivers etc. Not as good as the homeland for production, but with the Pyramids it was better than Germany or Minos.

However, I had a tedious interlude waiting for someone to trade me Monarchy or Republic. Maybe 15 turns of checking all 15 civs - it drove me nutty. Eventually I settled down to a Monarchy in preparation for my conquest(s).

So, 14 galleys (about one third of them regulars) loaded down with swords and Hoplites made their way over the sea. I decided to enter an alliance with the Keltoi and Russia to destroy the Ottomans - this had repercussions though.

As I was making my way up the peninsula from the wines area (I had to go down first, clear it and then back up) I finally got Feudalism from a trade. One of the cities I took had a barracks, so I upgraded my stack to Medieval Swordsman.

About this time, somebody else built the Great Library, Sogut cascaded to the Great Wall. Great, every city now has a set of walls around it - nevermind, I was commited now. The excellent news was that Knossus had the Great Library - so I turned down the research and started building a horseman stack to go for the Minoans.

The Babs built a city on some waste ground (had to raze 2 badly placed Otto cities). A quick war later and the Babs were furious - but I had fought hard for my new core, I wasn't about to let a culture freak like Hammarubi to camp on my new doorstep.

The Great Wall slowed down my advance, but I took Sogut about 600AD. Just before this, it had managed to build SUN TZU'S!!!

Woohoo! Free granary and barracks everywhere. I was so chuffed.

The Keltoi had been busy, marching up towards Sogut, so I had maybe 60% of the area for a new core. Deciding to take the risk, I built a new capital next door to a captured Otto city. And waited for a leader.

And waited. And waited. Got one just as the 2nd last Otto city fell. That was a close call - I declared peace (alliances had expired) and the next turn the Russians finished the job. Awesome army they had - 2 stacks of 20+ Medieval Infantry.

Next, the Minoans. I had disconnected the iron after the upgrade, built up the horseman, upgraded to knights (got Chivalry from the Otto's as part of the peace treaty) and then went for them. Took my time taking Knossus - it was the last city to fall. I was fishing for a great leader - and I didn't get one.

The Minoans survived, a settler escaping by boat - and just as the Minoans died and I entered the Industrial Age, the Germans sneak attacked me. Fools... but that's for another spoiler. Only 1 leader by 640AD - but I'm very happy I got that one leader.

As for Cracker's questions, only one I can really answer is the Peltast (haven't seen any other easter eggs). It's a great unit in combination with with others, but not so good when not combined. An equal balance of Peltasts and Pikemen slowed down my Minoan adventure quite a lot.

- I decided to make my middle age report shorter for easier reading. =)

At The end of the Ancient age, I had contact with all but three of the civs, had just upgraded 20 warriors to swordsmen and had
started moving in on the Minoans.

630 BC - Final contacts with Spain, Rome and Atlantis are made. Spain lacks Construction, but has Poly. So we swap techs
(she throws in her 6 gold treasury and her World map as well). This puts me in the middle ages. Feudalism is my free advance. My swordsmen were now well into Minoan territory, having captured 1 city. I decided to press on with swordsmen rather than running them back to a barracks to be upgraded to MI. In hindsight, this was a HUGE mistake. It is at this point that I realize Atlantis culture is ridiculous! Here is a screenshot I nabbed later (@770AD) when i wrote this report:



570 BC - We go to war with the Ottomans due to a refused demand. Pay Celts into an alliance for 270 gold. This spurs alliances and wars everywhere over the next few turns..all to my benefit. This war would continue well into nearly 800 AD, as I would have to wait till his 1 point cities pop in culture or get up to pop 2 (I decided no city razing this game).

330 BC - 40 turns on Republic finally finishes. Other civs beat me by a couple turns. I make the switch, drawing 5 turns of anarchy.

10 AD - The war vs. the Minoans goes extremely badly! where I started with 20 Swordsmen, over half of them veteran, in the end, I have 3!. I think a combination of the Pelstat (which I grossly underestimated), Minoan GA, and simply bad, bad rolls contributed to my very poor attack. 17 dead swordsmen, many who became elite, and I fell far short of the original plan to completely eliminate the Minoans. I did manage to get maybe half of his cities, including his capital with the great lighthouse. At one point, I watched in horror as an Elite swordsman fortified on a mountain lost to a regular pelstat - and the pelstat incurred zero damage. The individual battle results overall were simply bad. I don't think I have ever been so disgusted with roll results in a civ game before. I even had to stop short of capturing a cotton city.

This left me in a quite vulnerable state, my 'army' comprising of 2 hoplites, 3 swordsmen and about 5 horses. My main cities had been busy building infrastructure for research. I was forced to declare peace with the Minoans while I tried to rebuild up some semblance of an army. Engineering was researched this turn as well.

30 AD - As I figured, the other civs decide the Greeks are feeble. Atlantis demands engineering. We tell them to go away. He has no way of reaching me anyway. They declare war. Zulu then demand my territory map and 100 gold in 50 AD. Again, they declare war upon my refusal. I Buy Carthage into an alliance vs. zulu for incense and 20 gold. The Egypt joins the alliance for free! Hittites PAY me 13 gold for a zulu alliance! Note that none of them were already at war with the Zulu! Poor Shaka - he is so misunderstood.

40 - 350 AD - I acquire Invention, Theology, Chivalry, Gunpowder, Chemistry and Education in this period. Theo, Chiv and Edu were traded for. The others self researched. The war continues vs the Ottomans with my task force of about 5 knights, who manage to capture 2 cities (Ottoman attack units are all to the far west dealing with the Celts) and secure wines.

360 - 480 AD - Minoan wars #2 starts and results in the Minoans being eliminated by my Knights. Meanwhile, the Ottoman wars continue, having captured about 5 of his cities - including Sogut with the Hanging Gardens. Research Metallurgy, Military
Tradition and Astronomy in this timeframe. AI contributes Monotheism, Music Theory and Printing Press.

510 AD - The Ottomans are nearly finished, and I am grooming his lands for my new palace. I have more than a dozen elite cavalry/knights...and not a single great leader to show for it. I decide the army will sweep west until we circle the globe and
get back to starting Greek territory. So Celts, then Russia then Germany...

530 - 610 AD - War declared on Celts. By the end of this period, I would be 1/3 of the way through the Celts. Research
Physics, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism. AI contributes banking. I hand-build Copernicus in Sparta thinking this would trigger my GA (I have Lighthouse from Minoans fro Commercial). I stare in disbelief as this does not happen. Why on earth is Copernicus an
Expansionist wonder!? Start building Newton’s - which I confirm is scientific. Also in 540 AD, after many, many, many elite victories, GL (Pyrrhus) finally appears. He rushes a palace in the middle of ex-Ottoman lands.

I enter Industrial age in 610 AD. This is what my world looked like at that point in time.

Predator 1.21

Part II.

370BC - 480AD

370BC: Republic
190BC: Buy Feudalism. Begin Chivalry.
130BC: Palace Jump.
30BC:
/* Comment
WM - World Map
ROP Right of Passage
GPT Gold per turn
MA(Ger) Military allians vs. Germany
MA(Egy+Zul+Ger) Military allians vs. Egypt and
Military allians vs. Zulu and Military allians vs. Germany
TM Territory Map
(Ott) trade with Ottomans
we want = we offer
*/

(Ott) Eng+WM+38GPT+117 = Chiv
(Min) ROP+MA(Ger)+44+WM = ROP+MA(Ger)+Eng
(Rus) WM+28GPT+52 = Chiv
(Fra) WM+32GPT+97 = Chiv
(Cel) WM+29GPT+65 = Chiv
(Hit) MA(Egy+Zul)+WM+15GPT+13 = Chiv+MA(Egy+Zul)
(Spa) WM+20GPT+83 = Chiv
(Rom) MA(Zul)+Dyes+WM+27 = Eng+Chiv+MA(Zul)
(Fra) 12GPT = Incense
(Car) MA(Egy+Zul+Ger)+WM+7 = MA(Egy+Zul+Ger)+Chiv
(Atl) MA(Egy+Zul)+Ivory+WM+32 = Eng+Chiv+MA(Egy+Zul)
(Per) MA(Ger)+WM+34 = MA(Ger)+Chiv

Invention=(5t=0.10.0+131/1415)


10 AD:
World Ranking
Nations=Score:Gold:Cities:

Per=714:8:20:
Ott=685:65:19:
Atl=617:14:10:
Bab=602:28:15:
Gre=599:977:32:
Ger=598:1:12:
Cel=572:4:17:
Rus=567:30:19:
Spa=550:17:15:
Fra=549:44:16:
Car=475:39:13:
Hit=471:31:17:
Rom=466:40:17:
Egy=420:0:3:
Min=418:24:10:
Zul=375:35:10:

Greece:

Worker:26+FraWk+GerWk
Archer:4
Swordsman:1
Knight:5
Catapult:3
Galley:1
M.Infantry:3

Cities:31+Frankfurt.

Score=599 (98.8,31.1,469.2)

Invention (3t=0.10.0+117/977)

10 AD - 480 AD

Technical Game - Research and Trade. Nothing interesting.

10: Invention 3t=0.10.0+117/977
70:
Discover Invention.
Trade:
(Fra) WM+Theology+86=Invention
(Ott) MA(Ger+Egy)+WM+53 = MA(Ger+Egy)+Theology+Invention
(Spa) MA(Egy)+WM+10GPT+95 = MA(Egy)+Theology
(Rus) WM+18gpt+72 = Theology
(Hit) MA(Ger)+WM+12GPT+54 = Theology+ MA(Ger)
(Car) WM+11GPT+6 = Theology
(Rom) WM+23GPT+54 = Theology
(Cel) WM+Gems+15 = Theology

Gunpowder (5t=0.9.1+179/806)

90:
(Fra) WM+MA(Ger)+ROP+14 = MA(Ger)+ROP

170: Chemistry(6t=0.9.1+165/1354)
270: Banking(4t=0.9.1+211/1161)
Trade Education+.. = Gunpowder+Chemistry
310: Metallurgy(4t=0.9.1+381/2216)
Trade PrintingPress+.. = Banking
350: Astronomy 4t
360: Trade Astronomy+..= Metall
Physics (4t=1.8.1+351/2269)
400: Magnetism (4t=2.7.1+409/2239)
440: ToG (4t=2.7.1+494/2445)
JS.Bach Cathedral build in 0003.
480: Industrial Age (+Steam Power)


End of Part II.

I enter the middle ages #1 in tech. I research for my Knights. Get it and upgrade my horseman. I then attack and take all the Minoins land. They did however manage to send off 1 settler on a galley which survived at sea for hundreds of years until they finally settled their one little town.

My knights easily wiped out their Pelasts or whatever they were. I had the Germans join in just so I didn't have them against me. But unfortunalty they ended up blocking one of my armies and they actually took one Minoin city which I did not like at all. I remember from on of the previous GOTM where Rome was on their island by themesleves and put one city on my continent which costed me dearly.

Anyway the Germans, being stupid declared war one me a little while later. Well, I bring in the ottomans, Russia and France and soon the Germans are no more. At this point, I was megarich, at least compared to my other games. I had 1000's of gold with 100's coming in each turn, as this only increase throughout the game.

As my tech lead increased with my money, there was no doubt I was going to win by the needed victory condition. I just had to now plan the quickest way there and going around destoying the other civs was not the key. I needed them all to figtht each other and give me any techs that I passed up.

So by the end of the Middle Ages, I was #1 in pretty much everything, and now just working to get to the max research rate of 4 per turn.

These games usually go all for you or all against you. If you are behind in tech, you have to spend your to try to get some, but then can't reaserch as fast becasue you have no money and then you fall further behind . It's like riding a wave, if you can get in front of it, you can ride it to victory, but if you miss it, you are left in the dust and it's only a matter of time until the team up on you.

I've taken the time to write a really comprehensive Middle Ages report/analysis. I won't clog up the forum with it all here, so
please check out the attachment below:

1.21 Open

The Middle Ages were a quiet and peaceful period in my game. Except for Shaka's offer to join him in his war against the Persians, which was just too good to be ignored. The Persians later on allied Rome against me, but after 20 turns of not seeing a single Persian or Roman unit, I settled for peace, getting one town from Rome and two towns that the Persians took from Shaka. My peaceful civ built a lot of culture, and later on 3 Minoan towns and one German town defected to me.

After 3 40-turn gambits in the AA, I traded for a couple of early MA techs, and from Printing Press onwards did my own research. I did keep the AI's on tech parity however. By the end of the MA I managed to build Newton's University and Smith's Trading Company, which were two key milestones in my roadmap to Alpha Centauri.

Open

Ancient Age Post

Left previos post in 150AD having just jumped into Middle Ages, in about 5th place in score,and behind in tech. I found that the free tech (Monothism) was only known to me and I was able to gain all the tech I had missing, lots of cash, world maps, and luxury trades. It certainly helps to have so many Civs as the effect of tech leads is dramatic and even when behind in tech you can still find stagglers that have something. In GOTM20 once I got behind in tech I never found anyone to trade with.

By 260AD, I had become a Republic, and created large army of Persian Mercenaries, we stopped the people complaining about the mercenries with some nicely traded luxuries, and reminded them its better the Persians than the Greeks.

In 360AD, we lanch an attack on Germany with two stacks of 6 Persian Mercenary.
Two things here, as I moved into their territory (no ROP) and declared war when they asked me to move was that a Reputation hit? 1000 years later somebody complained that I'd done something wrong to Germany. Its true I destroyed their civilsation but I think I did it fairly with no broken treaty. The other thing is that before I declared on Germany I could not get Russia or Minoa to join the alliance, but after declaring war I bought them both in with ease.

It took until 450AD to get a GA, started seeing culture flips from Minoa, captured GL (only got Education from it) from Germany destroyed them by 650AD. Built the FP in Sparta.

Now still in GA was able to build both Sistine Chapel and Leo's in Athens and Sparta.
Now in first place 872, Persia 871, Otto 864.

At this point in my game I realised I had screwed up my intended palace jump. I only ever did one before in a practise game, but to jump the palace one needs to abandon the capital, that same capital that had built both the Lighthouse and Sistine Chapel, oh dear.
Basically I had to build a new Palace and then abandon that city. Moral is to try not to build Wonders in the capital.

In 900AD with a comfortable tech lead we built Military Tradition and attacked Minoa with about 10 Cavalry. I'm glad I waited until now, as they were tough, it appears that the Peltast can both defend themselves and throw Javalins in the same turn, but not the same attack.
So if 2 Cavalry attacking 2 Peltast, each Cavalry will first get a Javelin thrown at them from one Peltast and then have to fight the other unit, pretty powerful.

With help of some friends again, it didn't take long to destroy Minoa, and here we got the Great Wall from them.

By 1250AD, we emerge into Democracy, still building our replacement palace and about this time left the Middle Ages with 6000GP a big tech lead and comfortable score lead.

I didn't build any Galleys as I was content to conquer the local area (albeit slowly). My biggest comment about the other Civs is that it was easy to get them into alliance with my tech advantage.

Originally posted by KELLO
I've taken the time to write a really comprehensive Middle Ages report/analysis. I won't clog up the forum with it all here, so
please check out the attachment below:

Click to expand...

Kello, just wanted to say I enjoyed the writeup.....now just run the spellchecker...

Smackster,

Declaring war on a Civ while you are in their territory is a reputation hit, but not as bad as breaking a ROP.

Melifluous - PTW 1.21 Open


Up to Middle Ages

And the Second Installment

Turn 099 ( 550BC) - Incense City Library -> barracks. WM trading.
Turn 100 ( 530BC) - Scythia library -> barracks. Herakeia library -> hoplite.
Turn 101 ( 510BC) - Corinth library -> temple. yay! Horses are now within my borders. Get that road up! Sell construction to Spain for 46 gold. Sell construction to the Celts for 25 gold and WM. Sell construction to France for WM, 5 gold and a worker. Sell WM to Russia for 27 gold
Turn 104 ( 450BC) - Herakleia hoplite -> worker. Currency next turn Research to 30%.
Turn 105 ( 430BC) - Currency -> Feudalism. We get monotheism free . First palace upgrade, hehe. Sell currency to Germany for WM and 138 gold. Give currency to the Ottomans. Give Currency and Construction to the Russians. That should get all three into the next age. Lets see what tect they get
Turn 106 ( 410BC) - Sparta temple -> Marketplace. Herakleia worker -> marketplace. Research to 80%. Running at -8gpt. Check the three civs and they have no more tech? They were all scientific and they all entered the Middle Ages so WTH is this?
Turn 107 ( 390BC) - Sell currency to spain for WM and 30gold. Sell currency to the french for WM and 50gold.
Turn 108 ( 370BC) - Oops our galley stops next to a squid. Incense city and menudo city switched to courthouse.
IT - Squid kills our galley
Turn 109 ( 350BC) - Qitaiodea Library -> hoplite. Horses are connected. Corinth temple switched to Marketplace.
Turn 110 ( 330BC) - Harbor whipped in Brempalonica. WM trading
Turn 111 ( 310BC) - Athens aqueduct -> marketplace. Brempalonica harbor -> hoplite.
Turn 112 ( 290BC) - Plebos Nexia library -> barracks. Buy Ivory from Atlantis for Currency and 40gold. Meet Persia, trade them Maths for their WM. Buy contact with Babs from Zulu for WM and 20 gold. Sell Babs WM for WM and 133 gold. Sell my WM around and I now have 1001 gold . Now to fleece the younger civs.
Turn 113 ( 270BC) - OysterTown library -> hoplite.
Turn 114 ( 250BC) - Finally someone else has researched a Government We sell Monotheism to Spain for Monarchy, WM and 12gpt... Sell mono to Russia for 100 gold and 3gpt. Sell mono to Zulu for WM and 249 gold. We have 1402 gold and only -6gpt
Turn 115 ( 230BC) - Knew I would forget something... Start a revolution... We are gonna have 6 turns of Anarchy. Running at +15gpt
Turn 116 ( 210BC) - Zzzz. Sell monarchy to everyone for any price.
IT - Ottomans complete the Great Wall
Turn 121 ( 110BC) - We are a Monarchy. No news techs are available and nobody new to trade lux with... Lux to 10%, research to 90%.
Turn 122 ( 90BC) - Scythia barracks -> horseman. Qitaiodea hoplite -> barracks. A decision is made, switch Thermopylae to FP. Builds next turn. 13 shields lost. Someone will beat me to it i'm sure and I want to go pointy stick soonish... Well before pikemen anyway. Aim to build lots of horsemen after library in all and marketplaces in core, then upgrade to Knights. Hurry marketplaces in Herakleia, Sparta, Athens and Corinth. Hurry courthouses in Incense and Menudo Cities. Hurry barracks in Brempalonica.
Turn 123 ( 70BC) - Athens market -> barracks. Sparta market -> Horseman. Thermopylae FP -> Merketplace. Corinth market -> hoplite. Menudo courthouse -> barracks. Incense courthouse -> barracks. Herakleia merket -> Horseman. Bermpalonica barracks -> hoplite. Research to 70%.
Turn 124 ( 50BC) - OysterTown hoplite -> horseman.
IT - Zulu complete TGL.
IT - Carthage builds the Hanging Gardens. Celts complete the Great Lighthouse.
Turn 126 ( 10BC) - Athens barracks -> horseman. Sparta horseman -> horseman. Research to 60%.
Turn 127 ( 10AD) - Corinth hoplite -> hoplite. Brempalonica hoplite -> library. Sold Monotheism to all who didnt have it. Feudalism next turn.
Turn 128 ( 30AD) - Feudalism -> Chivalry. Menudo City settler -> barracks. Scythia horseman -> horseman. Plebos Nexia barracks -> horseman. Give carthage incense and 30 gold for spices. Research to 100%.
Turn 129 ( 50AD) - Athens horseman -> hoplite. Sparta horseman -> horseman. Thermopylae market -> Sun Tzu. Incense City barracks -> horseman. Herakleia horseman -> horseman. Sell feudalism to the ottomans for The republic, WM, 24gpt and 40 gold. Sell Feudalism to the Zulus (they have TGL) for WM and 40gold. Sell Republic to Russia for WM 3gpt and 48gold. Sell the republic to Persia for Wines, Gems and 6 gold. Sell republic to everyone else, except the minoans.
Turn 130 ( 70AD) - Sell minoans republic for 11 gold and a worker. Build an embassy with the Zulu. I get a ROP for my WM.
Turn 131 ( 90AD) - Athen hoplite -> temple. Corinth hoplite -> horseman. OysterTown horseman -> horseman. Sell the republic to Rome.
Turn 132 ( 110AD) - Sparta horseman -> horseman. Buy Ivory from the Atlantians for Incense and 190gold.
Turn 133 ( 130AD) - Incense City horseman -> horseman. Ephesus founded, starts barracks.
Turn 134 ( 150AD) - Menudo City barracks -> Temple. Scythia Horseman -> horseman. Plebos Nexia horseman -> horseman. Sell Feudalism to Carthage for WM, 4gpt and 50 gold. Sell Feudalism to the Atlantians for Ivory, WM, 1gpt and 50gold. Maybe they wont keep breaking this deal
Turn 135 ( 170AD) - Athens Temple -> Horseman. Sparta horseman -> horseman. Herakleia horseman -> horseman. Qitaeodea barracks -> hoplite. Brempalonica library -> hoplite.
Turn 136 ( 190AD) - Corinth horseman -> horseman. Expand my palace. Research to 80%.
Turn 137 ( 210AD) - Chivalry -> Theology. Single scientist research set in Qitaiodea. Research set to 0%. Doing +116gpt. We need 1040 gold to upgrade all my horsemen. 2 turns
Turn 138 ( 230AD) - Zzzzz.
Turn 139 ( 250AD) - Athens Knight -> Knight. Brempalonica Hoplite - hoplite. 13 horsemen upgraded to Knights for 1040gold.
Turn 140 ( 260AD) - Scythia hoplite -> hoplite. 14Knight stack sits outside minoans territory. We go to war next turn.
Turn 141 ( 270AD) - Sparta Knight -> knight. Qitaiodea hoplite -> hoplite. Another palace upgrade. Declare war on the minoans, and then move 14 knights into their territory.
Turn 142 ( 280AD) - Menudo City temple -> hoplite. Incense city knight -> knight. We take Zakros from the Minoans, plus 2 workers. Start them roading back to our other cities. Send a hoplite forward.
Turn 143 ( 290AD) - Athens Knight -> knight. Resistance in Zakros ends, gonna starve them down and rush a barracks. scythia hoplite -> hoplite. Brempalonica hoplite -> hoplite. Upgrade 9 warriors for 540gold. Knight takes out a peltast/settler combo and the workers are added to the road building squad. Knight takes out M.Archer. Lose a knight attacking a peltast, damn there goes the GA for minoa.
Turn 144 ( 300AD) - Herakleia knight -> knight. Hoplite attacks a peltast at Rithymna and wins, Golden Age! Oh and I take Rithymna. Hurry barracks at Zakros.
Turn 145 ( 310AD) - Zakros barracks -> hoplite. Menudo City hoplite -> market. Plebos Nexia Knight -> market. Ephesus barracks -> market. Sell Chivalry to Russia for Theology, Wool, WM, 1gpt and 110gold. Sell chivalry to Zulu for WM and 28gpt (He has TGL? Dont understand the AI sometimes...) Sell Chivalry to Ottoman for 60gold and 25gpt. Buy Silks, WM and 16gold from the French for Chivalry. Pay germans chivalry and WM for alliance against minoans. 100% research, still running at +35gpt. Education in 6turns. Kill a minoan warrior and a minoan peltast.
IT - Minoan peltast kills our injured decoy Knight.
Turn 146 ( 320AD) - Athens Knight -> knight. Sparta knight -> knight. Corinth knight -> knight. OysterTown knight -> market. Scythia hoplite -> market. Qitaiodea hoplite -> Market. Brempalonica hoplite -> market. Palace expand. Various sales including selling russia incense to Russia for 10gpt...
Turn 147 ( 330AD) - Palace expand. Knight attacks and kills peltast/settler combo near Amnessos.
IT - Carthage and Zulu sign a peace treaty... They were at war? wierd...
Turn 148 ( 340AD) - Attack defenders at Amnessos and win one, lose one. hehe my troops (12 knights and a hoplite) approach the minoans second city.
Turn 149 ( 350AD) - Herakleia knight -> knight. Athens knight -> knight. Incense City knight -> knight. I lose 2 knights taking Phaistos. Damn city got to size 7 before I could get there. Remaining troops march on Knossos.
Turn 150 ( 360AD) - Sparta knight -> knight. No loses as we take knossos with Knights. march onto Gortys. Education next turn, research to 50%.
Turn 151 ( 370AD) - Wow, Education -> banking. Sell education to Zulus for Engineering, WM, 31gpt and 147 gold. Bye bye Zulu Great Library
Turn 152 ( 380AD) - Athens knight -> university. Thermopylae Sun Tzus Art of War -> Library. Corinth knight -> university. Menudo City Market -> university. We take Myrtos. Sell Eductaion to Spain for WM, 15gpt and 19gold.
Turn 153 ( 390AD) - Zakros hoplite -> library. Plebos Nexia market -> university. Three knight take three peltasts to make Olus ours. A knight takes out the last defender in Amnessos to make it ours.
Turn 154 ( 400AD) - Sparta knight -> university. Thermopylae library -> university. Herakleia knight -> University. Knossos barracks -> library. Athens university -> Knight. Gortys hoplite -> hoplite. Amnessos hoplite -> hoplite. Myrtos hoplite -> hoplite.
Turn 155 ( 410AD) - Research to 90%.
Turn 156 ( 420AD) - Banking -> Printing Press. Athens knight -> bank. Brempalonica market -> university.
Turn 157 ( 430AD) - Thermopylae University -> Bank.
Turn 158 ( 440AD) - Sparta university -> Aqueduct. Menudo City university -> Bank. Incense City University -> Market. Our knights take Malia.
Turn 160 ( 460AD) - Knossos settler -> hoplite. Settler goes to fill a gap in Minoan land Trade Atlantians Iron for Ivory.
Turn 161 ( 470AD) - Printing Press -> Democracy. Corinth University -> Bank. Herakleia University -> Aqueduct. Qitaiodea Market -> university. Our knights take Nirou. Hurry library in Amnessos.
Turn 162 ( 480AD) - Athens bank -> Cathedral. Thermopylae Bank -> temple. Amnessos library -> courthouse. Myrtos hoplite -> library. Thessalonica founded, starts library.
Turn 164 ( 500AD) - Sparta aqueduct -> Bank. Thermopylae temple -> Sistine Chapel. Move 5 knights next to Minoan capital.
Turn 165 ( 510AD) - Golden Age Ends... Malia hoplite -> hoplite. Brempalonica University -> Aqueduct. Trade for Wool with Russia, costs 180gold and cotton. Trade French cotton, incense and 100 gold for silks.
Turn 166 ( 520AD) - Scythia University -> temple. Take Vathypetro. Make Peace with the Minoans and take all their cities apart from their capital. Sell banking to Zulus for WM, 57gpt and 120gold. Sell banking to Carthage for WM, 47gpt and 40gold. Sell banking to Babylonians for WM, 11gpt and 90gold. wow
Turn 167 ( 530AD) - Russia offers 10gpt for Incense, we take it. Zakros library -> Courthouse. Plebos Nexia aqueduct -> temple. Ephesus library -> university. Sell banking to Hittites for Furs and WM.
Turn 168 ( 540AD) - Athens Cathedral -> Harbor. OysterTown university -> Aqueduct. Rush build some libraries in the former Minoan lands. Democracy next turn research to 10%, +335gpt.
Turn 169 ( 550AD) - Democracy -> Astronomy. Revolution starts. Phaistos, Malia, Gortys, Komos, Arkhanes, Ierapytna, Thesalonica and Lindos library -> courthouse. Sell banking to everyone who doesn't have it.


To Be Continued

Melifluous - PTW 1.21 Open

Turn 173 ( 590AD) - We are a Democracy. At 90% research we get Astronomy in 4 turns. Sell Russians Democracy for WM, 76gpt and 110gold. Sell spain democracy for 8gpt and 30gold. Buy Dyes from the Romans for Iron.
Turn 174 ( 600AD) - Knossos hoplite -> Library. Herakleia aqueduct -> temple. Hurry some libraries.
Turn 175 ( 610AD) - Incense City market -> aqueduct. Nirou, Myrtos and Vathypetro library -> courthouse.
Turn 176 ( 620AD) - Menudo City bank -> Cathedral. Rithymna library -> harbor. Build an Embassy with the French. Sign an ROP with the Germans, they might get their troops out quicker now that I have blocked the land route to the Minoans.
Turn 177 ( 630AD) - Athens Harbor -> Leonardos. Plebos Nexia builds temple -> harbor.
Turn 178 ( 640AD) - Hurry some courthouses. Knossos library -> Courthouse. Gortys courthouse -> University. Olus library -> Courthouse. Herakleia temple -> bank. Komos courthouse -> University. Thessalonica courthouse -> University.
Turn 180 ( 660AD) - Sparta bank -> Cathedral. Scythia temple -> harbor.
Turn 181 ( 670AD) - Chemistry -> Physics. Brempalonica Aqueduct -> temple.
Turn 182 ( 680AD) - Sell my world map around.
Turn 183 ( 690AD) - Thermopylae Copernicus'-> Cathedral. Corinth Bank -> Temple. Plebos Nexia harbor -> Bank.
Turn 184 ( 700AD) - Amnessos Courthouse -> University. Qitaiodea university -> temple. Research to 70%, physics next turn
Turn 185 ( 710AD) - Physics -> Metallurgy. Research to 90%, 4turn tech Incense City Aqueduct -> Bank.
Turn 186 ( 720AD) - Sell Gunpowder to Russia for Wool, WM, 19gpt and 80gold. Sell Democracy to France for Silks, WM and 40gold. Sell Democracy to Ottomans for Economics and WM. Switch Athens from Leos (which Carthage just built) to Smiths. Thermopylae switched to Bachs as prebuild for Newtons.
Turn 187 ( 730AD) - Sell Russia Incense for 11gpt. Ephesus University -> Aqueduct. Sell Democracy to Hittites for Furs and WM.
Turn 188 ( 740AD) - Research to 70%, Metallurgy next turn. Sell cotton to Russia for 11gpt. Sell Chemistry to Carthage for WM and Free Artistry.
Turn 189 ( 750AD) - Metalurgy -> Theory Of Gravity. Research to 90%. Sparta Cathedral -> Courthouse. Menudo City Cathedral -> Granary.
Turn 190 ( 760AD) - Germans and Minoans sign a peace treaty, my blockade of the Minoans last city saved them it seems. Corinth temple -> Cathedral. OysterTown Aqueduct -> Temple. Sell physics to the Carthaginians for Navigation, WM, 61gpt and 90gold. Sell Physics to Russia for WM, 42 gpt and 310gold.
Turn 192 ( 770AD) - Brempalonica temple -> Bank.
Turn 193 ( 780AD) - Scythia harbor -> granary. Research to 80%.
Turn 194 ( 790AD) - Theory of Gravity -> Magnetism. Research to 90%. Menudo City Granary -> Cannon. Plebos nexia Bank -> granary. Qitaiodea temple -> Bank. Sell Metallurgy to Carthage for WM, 82gpt and 130gold. Sell Physics to spain for 11gpt and 17 gold. Sell metallurgy to Russia for WM, 27gpt and 100gold. Hurry a LOAD of stuff in former Minoan lands. I just spent just over 2000 gold.
Turn 195 ( 800AD) - Sparta courthouse -> Palace (prebuild for ToE). All Minoan land cities complete either Courthouse or University and change to worker. Thermopylae switched to Newtons (Will build in 2 turns). Sell romans Democracy for Dyes and WM.
Turn 196 ( 810AD) - Herakleia Bank -> granary. Amnessos worker -> market.
Turn 197 ( 820AD) - Knossos worker -> University. Zakros worker -> harbor. Thermopylae Newtons -> Cathedral. Malia worker -> university. Menudo City Cannon -> Bachs. Vathypetro worker -> harbor. Thessalonica worker -> Market. Research to 50%.
Turn 198 ( 830AD) - Magnetism (Nationalism free tech) -> Steam Power. Research to 90% (will get in 6turns). Olus worker -> temple. Incense City bank -> temple. Plebos Nexia granary -> Cathedral. Komos worker -> temple. Nirou worker -> Harbor. Myrtos worker -> temple.

Industrial Ages in 830AD


This Space Race is gonna be a snap...

Pulling away in tech and earning +120gpt at 90% research.

Melifluous

PtW 1.21 Open

Greece was a straggler in the Ancient Age, but the wily Alexander managed to transform his fledgling empire into a flourishing dominion in the middle ages.

Purchasing from the Germans the art of Construction, Greece suddenly found itself the first nation to enter the middle ages. Prophets, praising the name of Greece, preached a new religion: a religion where one god, and only one god, ruled supreme; Greece was quick to adopt the new faith, and just as quick to export it to other lands. Soon, much of the world adopted the worship of the One True Lord as Greece guided them into the new medieval era. Greece's prophets, preaching in distant lands, brought back many secrets as well: maps of every nation in the world and two highly unusual ideas for governments: one where a nation of city-states ruled itself and another where one man, called a king, would rule.

Alexander, as an honorable and decent leader, gave the reins of government to the people. The transition was nearly seamless and those few who disapproved of the new regime were quickly crushed [2 turn Anarchy]. Greece was a new land, a new nation.

The Minoans, however, were not happy with Greece's great success. They began, with their frightfully dangerous peltasts, patrolling the mountainous, bone-dry border between the two nations, sometimes even approaching Mycenae and Corinth, opposite each other, east and west, on the inland sea. Greece, ever a friendly and forgiving land, gave the cretins every chance to withdraw, yet they would not demilitarize. Alexander reluctantly ordered the buildup of a legion of blades. A few swordsmen of the ancient ages had for generations guarded the empire, but they were augmented with greatly increased numbers and an improved weapon: the flail. Christened the Medieval Infantry, a large force was raised: about 10 full legions were created and sent to the three borders with Minoa:
East, on the northern talon of Falcon Bay east of the inland sea, two Minoan cities stood, sentinels staring towards Persia across the ocean.
Southwest of Mycenae, on the southern shore of the inland sea, stood Vathypetro, a mountainous citadel.
In the desert stood Malia, on the coast, providing a route through the desert and to Minoa proper beyond.

Greece gave its childish southern neighbors one final chance, which they refused.
The fury of the scourge came down upon them....

Soon, Vathypetro and the two cities on the Talon fell to Medieval might, but at Malia the peltasts made a stand. It was the first major battle of the war, and there were many injuries. In the end, though, Greece naturally prevailed, for it was in the right. For many years, Malia stood as a now-Greek citadel against constant waves of Minoan attack while those legions who fought the Minoans elsewhere regrouped and marched for Malia.
At last, the army was there reunited and augmented by yet another weapon: the horse, a beast long known to the Greeks but thought useless. But an especially honorable group of Medieval Infantry codified their honor and, by the grace of God, found that the new code of chivalry gave the horses great love for the Infantry. Chivalric followers became Knights, mounted in a war to teach Minoa what was right.

Greece advanced on with ever greater success. Phaistos, a city on the coast of the sea as well as on a lake separating it from Knossos, fell. There, Greece again waited and endured the fury of the peltasts.

A dastardly trick proved beyond a doubt that Minoa did not understand the One True Lord at all. Striking behind Greek lines, a legion of peltasts and one of archers struck Mycenae, reducing the one hoplite legion there to barely functional status [one hp]. An infantry unit took on heroic measures the next turn, acting on its own, entering the city and smashing the foe. The commander of the legion, Pyrrhus, became a great hero throughout all of Greece; later a great epic to his name would be composed and enshrined forever in Mycenae. The land entered an age of renewed prosperity, a time now considered the Golden Age of Greece's history. In that time, it passed from being weak to being great.

Pyrrhus led a great triple legion of infantry south, and with the aid of the Knights took the city of Knossos in 600 A.D. Little known to the Greeks was that the city had, 20 years before, under the watchful eye of Leonardo da Vinci, constructed a great workshop. It fell into Greek hands, along with the mighty Pharos and the Colossus.
Alexander granted mercy on Minoa, allowing them to surrender the cities of Gortys, Amnessos, and Komos for peace. Olus, on a flood plain farther south, became Volak's new home.

News reached Greece of another war brewing in the north: the vicious Turks, mightiest empire in the world, had launched themselves upon the German empire, itself much more powerful than Greece.

Alexander rushed his legions, now with as many knights as medieval infantry, to the eastern coast north of the inland sea. He offered his services to the Turk, solicited the aid of the Great Bear, and the three nations, together, launched themselves on Bismarck's empire.

Greece took the eastern coast easily and soon took the desert oasis of Konigsberg, from there advancing north to Frankfurt. Beyond lay Berlin's Oracle and Hamburg's Sistine Chapel; the former fell to the Knights of Greece; the latter to the Rus. The war dragged on when the Turks betrayed their promise and withdrew. But the Graeci and the Russians persevered, the latter taking Germany's northeastern lands while Greece took the southwest.
Nuremberg, Heidelberg, Brandenburg... all fell to Greece. Hannover of the frozen pearls.
New Berlin fell, birthing the last of three heroes of the campaign: Hector, Ulysses, Jason.
J.S. Hector's Cathedral, Ulysses' Observatory, and Jason's Trading Company all opened their doors soon after, the first in Thermopylae, the others in Athens. In the interim, New Leipzig fell to Greece; Germany was no more.

Not even months, barbarian hordes rose in the north as those few Germans who survived rode forth from the hills to punish their foes, though their civilization was forever gone. They aimed for New Berlin, but wealthy Alexander was wise: he, fearing for the growing treasury, gave the city as a reward to the Rus as the cruel horsemen loomed down upon it; Greece's riches were spared.

And, it was happy to discover, it was no longer the weakest nation in the world. It was the richest, the most advanced, and, once Greek culture was brought to Germany, the largest. Only the great past of the once-mighty Turk, the Atlantians, and the pagan lands of Zarathustra yet were thought greater than Greece.

In the last days of the war, revolution tore through Greece; Alexander was cast down for many years [5 turns] before being brought back again as the president of a new Greek Democracy: the perfect government to lead the nation that led the world.

----
Notes
Never had a chance to use Cavalry in the Middle Ages... by then Germany was nearly vanquished and there was no need.

The Forbidden Palace, which I am always loath to build for fear of poor placement, was not built by the Greeks in the Middle Ages.

Oddly, the German territories blended seamlessly into the whole in terms of production, growth, and (low) corruption levels while the Minoan towns remained unproductive in every way throughout the entire age.

I got *really* lucky with the leaders-1 in my first war, 3 in the 2nd.

In the rest of the world, peace reigned. A few minor wars broke out, but no more than 2 or 3 minor cities were exchanged.

Originally posted by scubagtr
Smackster,

Declaring war on a Civ while you are in their territory is a reputation hit, but not as bad as breaking a ROP.

Click to expand...

How does the hit for breaking a ROP work. I used ROP to get inside Germany and when it expired I terminated it. On the same turn I declared war and proceeded to quickly eliminate the Germans with about 30 Cav.

Now many turns later some Civs still wont give me an ROP because of that . Many of the Civs don't seem to be aware of it but the few who do have held it against me fo many, many turns.

Actually, declaring war on a civ while in their territory does count as a broken ROP. When you do an ROP rape, the ROP itself only counts as a broken trade deal. The real penalty is for declaring war with units in foreign territory.

Every time you do one of these sneak attacks, your cost of buying an ROP goes up. The civs stop telling you how much to pay after the first violation, but you can still buy one if the price is right. But after repeated violations you'll never be able to afford it.

OPEN PTW 1.21
just a few comments on how my game is progressing.
Firstly, at the very begining of my middle ages Germany decided to war against me as i decided not to provide tribute. unfortuantely every turn about two other Civs joined against me. in a matter of about 4 turns it was me against about 10 civs.
One of the third ring cities i founded was near the ottomans on their side of the coast. though i liked what it allowed for my city positioning structure i think it may have made them mad. they were the first to join w/ germany against me.
Those ottomans also lead to my Golden Age as my hoplite defended the city.
I was able to hold off the attacks and take 2 german cities while eventually getting everyone but Spain off my back.
Spain is the current world power. I was able to rush the GL which afforded me quite a bit of funds early on.
At the end of the Middle Ages my funds were nearly wiped out but i was in a pretty good position territory wise. I built/rushed the F. Palace in one of the taken German cities, just south of Berlin. Finding myself too afraid to try a palace jump i've left my capital in athens. wrapping up the middle ages i am in a slow war against the nearly dead germans. i have in the last 7 turns taken their capital but am having trouble committing towns to build up an army. i find myself committing to build infrastructure.
Final Notes. unless someone wars against the Atlantians (or other southern semi-isolated countries) they may only gain in strength. this strength could pose problems come the modern ages.