CG9 - The French Spirit! (Circa WWI)

OK. I'm reading "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman, and I find the mental state of the French Army in WWI fascinating. Therefore I thought I'd try to translate that into some rules for a Civ game - with the French as the Civ of course. Here goes...

Civ: The French. Duh. I've never played a full game as the French anyway.

Version: PTW, 1.21. Wasn't there an international patch recently?

Level: Emperor.

Map: Large, Continent, all the usual. Generated in-game.

Enemies: Maximum.

Victory Condition: Any, all of them on.

Variant Rules: Here goes!
- We must have the spirit of elan. That means we must attack. While the French loved to attack when they should retreat in WWI, since that's hard to translate into Civ terms, here's what it means for us: Offensive wars. Not all the time, but when we sense that an enemy is trying to invade us, or they don't like us, or we simply want territory, we attack. (I know the French didn't start WWI, but I'm trying to get elan into Civ terms).
- No offensive artillery. The general opinion of the French was that artillery was useless combined with elan, so they carried none bigger than 75s on average. For us, that means no artillery offensively. Defensively is fine, even encouraged.
- Territory we lose in a war (if we lose some) must be regained in another war as quickly as possible, no excuses. Again, this didn't happen in real life, but I'm trying to recreate in Civ-terms the French want for Alsace.
- Cities with French citizens must be regained right away.
- We must go into 'free' governments right away. By free, I mean Republic and Democracy.
- We must fight a war during the early Industrial Age. If one isn't going on, we must start it.
- We must utilize MPPs. We don't necessarily have to avoid ones with Germany and do ones with Russia (if they are even in the game, that is) but we must make MPPs with nation's we feel are are allies.
- Our offensives must be an even mix of mounted and infantry units. So that means use Swords and Horses, use Knights and Medevil Infantry, Cavalry and Infantry, Tanks and Infantry, and MAs and Mechs. By even mix I mean an attack doesn't necessarily have to be exactly 50-50, but it has to contain a good amount of infantry along with mounted. And don't cheat and have the Infantry not attack on an offensive. (BTW, this isn't necessarily reflecting the French spirit, just the WWI warfare as a whole.)
- Avoid defensive/trench warfare. I know that in WWI the French utilized trench warfare, but that was a last ditch attempt. We must take the the offensive whenver possible. If we are outnumbered, attack. If we need to retreat and heal, attack. To give up a city, territory, workers, etc - even if its planned to be temporary - isn't honorable and shouldn't be done. We must attack always, even when defense is prefered.

Roster:
Myself
(Open)
(Open)
(Open)
(Open)

BTW, if anyone here has anymore suggestions or finds that I'm off about the French spirit in WWI, please tell me and we'll change the rules. After all, I may be wrong. But, if not suggestions are made, I'll make the save as soon as we have players.

elan!

I bet you started this game because today is the French National Day, but I might be wrong. Mmmh, wasn't aware of this French "élan" during WWI, but I'm not that interested in this part of history. So I'm pretty sure that you know more about it than me. But I won't sign up, as I have way too much Civ going on. And BTW, I find your rules a bit too complicated and not very clear (precise), but maybe this is part of the deal. I may lurk in the future to see how you're going here.

Oh, and don't forget to wear bright red war costumes, so as Germans can spot you immediately and kill you !! Damn ! The French really missed the spirit of modern warfare in the beginning of both WW. But don't blame ; we had already got our Golden Age !!

Originally posted by kryszcztov
I bet you started this game because today is the French National Day, but I might be wrong.

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Nope, but that's what I'm going to say. I had no idea today was Bastille Day until after I made the thread.

Mmmh, wasn't aware of this French "élan" during WWI, but I'm not that interested in this part of history. So I'm pretty sure that you know more about it than me.

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Actually I was as clueless as you until I started reading "The Guns of August". I highly reccomend it.

But I won't sign up, as I have way too much Civ going on. And BTW, I find your rules a bit too complicated and not very clear (precise), but maybe this is part of the deal.

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I think I know what you mean, in which case it is - sort of - part of the deal. The rules are not meant to be as rules that must be followed in every circumstance. They're more meant as...guidelines. I tried to convey the idea of elan as best as I could. The whole idea of the game is we follow elan, and I tried to convey what it meant - hopefully I did.

Oh, and don't forget to wear bright red war costumes, so as Germans can spot you immediately and kill you !! Damn ! The French really missed the spirit of modern warfare in the beginning of both WW. But don't blame ; we had already got our Golden Age !!

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If only I could get a mod of this!

I'd love to try this. I'm kinda new around here, so I'll take some handholding probably, but I like the setup and the policy-style rules.

(The no-artillery rule will cripple me, but it'll be good exercise.)

It would be fun to have a lot of France's historical enemies represented. Is this a PTW game? Carthage and the Arabs can sub for the various African colonies. Iroquois and Americans would be in.

For a countries list, maybe something like:

Spain,
Germany,
England,
Vikings,
Romans,
Ottomans,
Arabs,
Zulu (Madagascar)
Carthaginians,
Egyptians (Napoleon!)
Indians,
Chinese or Japanese (far east)
Iroquois,
Americans,
Aztecs (Carribean)

which makes 15 opponents.

I think policy might include a futile emphasis on culture, since it's the self-absorbed French we're playing, and it's all part and parcel of the whole "Elan" thing. So - when we fall culturally inferior to any other civ, that should be a causus belli and a reason to rush all kinds of cultural improvements, something like that.

Interesting idea Puzzlinon. I hadn't thought about making the Civs specific - but now I will. I'll do it in the Editor but I won't look at the map.

That idea about the culture is good - its very vague also, its not even really policy, almost a general idea. I like it.

So, are you in?

(And yes its PTW 1.21. I'll add that the the first post)

Count me in.

Can't you choose the countries as part of game creation, right in PTW?

Nice varient! I never heard of this before, though I cant join, I have too too many things going on. I would've loved to though. I hear that the French are realy under rated . Good Luck!

I'd love to join.

I'd like to join, but I'm leaving for three weeks to do a Gifted program thingy, so it would be a bad time to commit . élan sounds very interesting. Good luck!

And Cgannon, don't worry, all things heal in time. Even Jack White's finger .

Originally posted by Tsukemono5
And Cgannon, don't worry, all things heal in time. Even Jack White's finger .

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Good to see someone gets the title. Lets hope it heals in time for my concert I was going to buy tickets for!

OK, so this is the roster so far:

Myself
Puzzlinion
Bacon King
? Tusukemono5 (how soon do you leave?)

I'll make the save tomorrow, its too late for that now.

@ Puzzlinion: Not in-game, but I can choose in the editor.

The start position:



And the save:

EDIT: I'll play this afternoon.

i have a question. how many turns will we do? 10, 20, or something else?

I suggest moving worker to the montain first to look around.

I leave this very Sunday.

@ Bacon King: I will move the worker. We're going to do 40 for the first, then 20 from there on out until it gets too long and we go to 10.

@ Tsukemono: We'll see if you can get up before then. So you're sort of on the roster...you'll play if you can.

OK, here are my 40 turns:

[Turn 1 - 4000 BC] Worker reveals 3 Cattle and two Bonus Grassland to the East. That gives me a dilemma. Do I found on the starting spot, taking a Cattle and a Bonus from the next city, do I move to the West to allow a second city to get ALL of them, or do I take a long walk to the East to take advantage of all of them? I decide to found on the starting spot. It has a river and Flood Plain, so it can be a settler factory. Paris founded, Warrior started.

[Turn 2 - 3950 BC] Pottery started at 100% for 20 turns. (I think I've done this in every single one of my games for the last...who knows how long.) The worker moves painfully slow to irrigate a flood plain.

[Turn 3 - 3900 BC] Worker walks more...

[Turn 4 - 3850 BC] Irrigation begins for two turns. I love Industrious, I haven't been it in a while.

[Turn 5 - 3800 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 6 - 3750 BC] Road started.

[Turn 7 - 3700 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 8 - 3650 BC] I decide to pull something a unusual to my style. We need production badly, and our culture will expand in 3 turns, so I head over to the Cattle - currently out of our territory - to mine it.

[Turn 9 - 3600 BC] Paris grows, Warrior founded. Warrior heard NW to explore. Second citizen works Forest until Cattle is mined.

[Turn 10 - 3550 BC] Paris riots. Sorry, its been a while since I've played Emperor, I forget the Second-Born-Unhappy rule. I raise lux.

[Turn 11 - 3500 BC] We meet Rome! (I thought I placed Germany closer...ah nevermind! ) They have Warrior Code and Burial and we have Masonry. I want both, but they won't deal. I decide to trade Masonry for Burial and 10g. Paris expands, and we see some Spices to the South - alright!

[Turn 12 - 3450 BC] I accidentally move the Worker to the Bonus Grassland and not the Cattle. Grr.

[Turn 13 - 3400 BC] Worker moves to Cattle.

[Turn 14 - 3350 BC] Incense found to the North.

[Turn 15 - 3300 BC] Warrior->Warrior in Paris. Warrior heads South to explore.

[Turn 16 - 3250 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 17 - 3200 BC] Paris grows. Lux raised one more notch - just until the Warrior finishes (1 turn). Warrior moves South onto a hill and sees an orange border.

[Turn 18 - 3150 BC] Warrior->Settler in Paris. Lux lowered.

[Turn 19 - 3100 BC] We contact England. They have Bronze Working, Pottery, and Warrior Code. Pottery does't matter - we get that in two turns. They will give us Bronze Working and 10g for Masonry; unfortunately not Warrior Code. I take it. Rome won't take Bronze Working for Warrior Code...weird. Bronze Working is VASTLY superior in my mind. I guess AIs think differently (read: dumber) than humans. So far our corner of the globe looks pretty tight, so I think we're going to need some elan pretty soon. England has 3 cities, we have one, and Rome has one. The worker finishes mining the Cattle. So far Paris has an irrigated Flood Plain, a Mined Cattle, and a roaded forest. That means it has a 5 shield surplus and a 3 food surplus. Since it won't get above size 3 very often as a Settler factory, I decide to move the worker away and start some roading and work on the future city spot for our next city.

[Turn 20 - 3050 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 21 - 3000 BC] We discovery Pottery and research Iron Working at min sci (sort of - the lowest notch possible while still researching) so its coming in at 40 turns with 5gpt. Rome wants Pottery, Bronze Working, and 32g for Warrior Code. What? All it gives you is stupid Archers and its required for Horses while Bronze Working gives you Spears and is required for SWORDS! Sheesh. We meet Ragnar of the Vikings. He was Warrior Code but he wants out Alphabet. Alphabet is worth too much for that, IMO. Isn't it the most expensive tech of the first techs?

[Turn 22 - 2950 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 23 - 2900 BC] We contact Carthage. (Jesus this island looked bigger in the editor!) He also has Warrior Code but wants all our gold, 47g, and some gpt for it so I deny. In case you're wondering, England is very close to our South, Rome is somewhere North, Scandanavia is somewhere North, and Carthage is somewhere NW. I start mining the Cattle for our next City.

[Turn 24 - 2850 BC] Settler->Spear in Paris. Settler/Warrior move South. Rome will go as low as Pottery and 40g now. Wow, this is Warrior Code (one the worst starter techs, IMO) and its owned by 4 people!

[Turn 25 - 2800 BC] Nothing. Settler moves to city spot.

[Turn 26 - 2750 BC] Germany spotted. He also has Warrior Code. I decide to break down and trade Alphabet for Warrior Code and 15g, afraid that other Civs will get Alphabet before I can trade it. Orleans founded, starts a Spear.

[Turn 27 - 2710 BC] I spot some irrigation to the North, outside of any borders. I'm intrigued.

[Turn 28 - 2670 BC] Paris Spear->Granary. I decide to squeeze it in before I start the Settler, something I usually do. Warrior exploring reveals that the irrigation leads from Germany territory towards the mountain range. Apparently the AI used a worker to make a trail of irrigation from a river to their city away from fresh water. This is very intelligent behavior, I've never seen this before. However, it appears that the German city benefiting from the irrigation trail is surrounded by grassland. Dumb AI.

[Turn 29 - 2630 BC] Worker starts mining Cattle near Orleans.

[Turn 30 - 2590 BC] My hypothesis is correct. The Germans made the large trail of irrigation all so ONE grassland tile could be irrigated. The rest of the tiles won't even benefit because they are forests!

[Turn 31 - 2550 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 32 - 2510 BC] Worker starts Roading Cattle by Orleans. I discover that Carthage is actually to the far North, even farther North than Germany, but slightly West.

[Turn 33 - 2470 BC] Spear->Settler in Orleans. I see an English border pretty far South of York, their city very close to us. It leads me to wonder whether that city was popped from a goody hut and that the island is less crowded then I thought.

[Turn 34 - 2430 BC] Worker begins mining a Bonus Grassland for when Paris expands to size 4 (the Granary build will make it bigger than expected).

[Turn 35 - 2390 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 36 - 2350 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 37 - 2310 BC] It looks like the North is the crowded part, not ours. I can see German, Carthaginian, and Scandanavian cities all from one mountain. That looks like a warzone in a while...

[Turn 38 - 2270 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 39 - 2230 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 40 - 2190 BC] Granary->Settler in Paris. Settler->Spear in Orleans. I decide to end my turn here so we can have discussion on where to move the Settler(s). I'm making a rough dotmap of our surrounding territory. I think some immediate spots must be the Incense, the Plains to the North, and grabbing the Spices to the South. After that I say we fill in jungle and the desert. Keep exploring the black area to the South and the NW. And more workers are necessary. If I had more turns I would have built another one. Good luck!

Now the Dotmap. The Dark and Light Green Dots are two options for the city. The Light Green has no overlap, but the Dark Green has a Flood Plain. You decide.



And the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG9-2190BC.sav]

Got it. I'll play this evening. (I'm in CA.)

The yellow dot could go on the hill just sw of where you put it;
that would pull in useless desert but a bit of hill, and it would still have early coastal food.

The southern dot is a bit tight. Could we pull it down due south onto the second hill, or due west onto the spices, and plan on removing that orange blight as soon as possible?

I'd keep the dark-green dot location over the light green, just for river status (if not much river benefit.)

Originally posted by Puzzlinon
Got it. I'll play this evening. (I'm in CA.)

The yellow dot could go on the hill just sw of where you put it;
that would pull in useless desert but a bit of hill, and it would still have early coastal food.

The southern dot is a bit tight. Could we pull it down due south onto the second hill, or due west onto the spices, and plan on removing that orange blight as soon as possible?

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Good point on the yellow dot. And if you can see a better spot for the Spice City, take it - as long as we get the Spices!

cg- is that a custom tile set or is your screen shot taker messed up?

*waiting for Puzzlinon to finish*

Re Elan:

The French army almost commited mutiny in 1917, after Verdun. "Elan" was a bad idea, based on misreading napoleonic history, in view of modern technology (the machine gun) Trench warfare was necessary to survive on the battlefield, and it was terible living conditions, in mud up to the ankles (if you were lucky). Everyone had lice. Food and water supplies were unreliable. The French may have relied on the famous 75 gun but the Germans were exponents of heavier artillery (Krupp, big bertha and railroad guns). If somehow you manage to follow the French WW1 prescription, you will understand the old joke, why do the French plant Poplar trees along their roads? So the German army can march in the shade.

well, he did say the elan thing was to be a guidline instead of what we must follow no matter what.