Should Armies be Upgradeable/Unloadable?

SinisterDeath · Aug 6, 2003

I was just at this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38929&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=5

and I saw that there was no poll. Apologies to the thread starter, but this is a hot one, and I think a poll will really tell the tale. I've included quite a few options and ideas which I got from reading the 5 pages of posts. I'm also going to post this thread ID in the original thread so we can have people from there voting on this too. What do you think?

nalves · Aug 6, 2003

I don't like changes to the core game, things that came as far as civ I, like the RR movement. But in this case I would like some changes like the ability of unload from a army.
That download could be done in any city as long as there were barracks in there.

Hawkster · Aug 6, 2003

I prefer option 3 (which is why I voted for it) - I think the danger is making armies too powerful - always unloading and upgrading could turn civ into an all out wargame. I also wonder if the AI could deal with this effectively or would it be just another human benefit?

Restricting the ability to capital/FP/mil wonder cities may help prevent too many armies being around, I think I would prefer linking it directly to a small wonder (military academy) which would then make that wonder much more useful.

anarres · Aug 6, 2003

Hawkster, when you get rails option 3 is just as powerful as option 1.

I voted to keep it as it is. Armies are fine, unloading would make them far too powerful IMO.

Iztvan · Aug 6, 2003

I voted for upgrading, just like normal units. Of course the units in armies should upgrade as soon as you hit shift-U.

I was thinking about adding "Unload" to Armies in the editor, but then I realised that the AI probably wouldn't be able to handle it -> another player advantage over the AI = not good.

Hawkster · Aug 6, 2003

@anarres

I agree about rails to a point - but it would prevent armies being used overseas as much, thats why I also indicated that my preferred option would be small wonder linked rather than capital/FP as well at least the cost would be higher (having to build the wonder).

At least old armies would then be useful - as it stands an army of knights , for example, has no use after a while and you end up with units which can't be used / upgraded which is a waste of shieds (which is why I very rarely use armies).

Perhaps what is needed is unload and disband - the army is disbanded (for a shield bonus) and the units unloaded for upgrading - this would prevent the army being upgraded to the latest units.

anarres · Aug 6, 2003

Originally posted by Hawkster
Perhaps what is needed is unload and disband - the army is disbanded (for a shield bonus) and the units unloaded for upgrading - this would prevent the army being upgraded to the latest units.

Well I would be happy with that. If you disband an army in RL the troops don't keel over and die do they?

SinisterDeath · Aug 6, 2003

Even better, I think that there should be no shield bonus for disbanding. Really, what are you going to get in RL from a bunch of Swordsmen in the modern age? Perhaps some money for their antique breast plates and swords, but hardly a factory/production bonus. IMHO, I think you should be able to upgrade until you can't anymore, and then disband to unload, with NO shield bonus.

amirsan · Aug 6, 2003

I would just keep it the way it is, yes it is sometimes annoying to have a archer army in the Modern Age but that is the challenge, thats what keeps you trying to get an army with newer units. If you can just upgrade the army then there would be no use in trying to get another and half the strategy of battle (which IMO, there is little compared to RTS games) would be useless.

kb2tvl · Aug 6, 2003

The unload option was removed in some very early patches. I do think armies should be upgradeabe but not unloadable... Unless the unit is at full heath, maybe.

anarres · Aug 6, 2003

Originally posted by kb2tvl
The unload option was removed in some very early patches.

It was a bug they fixed, not an option they removed. Unloading was never intended.

zorven · Aug 6, 2003

Of course I like the idea of unloading and re-loading armies. My concern would be game balance. Restricing it to a city with the Pentagon and charging a fee to re-constitute the army could be enough to keep it balanced.

The Last Conformist · Aug 6, 2003

I think it's fine as is.

I'd not mind allowing units in armies to be upgraded, but allowing unloading would seem to allow for some very questionable "tactics".

handy900 · Aug 6, 2003

I voted for #4. I usually only build 1 army so I can get the heroic epic. Since I play mostly as Persia, it's often an army of immortals. This army eventually gets disbanded and it just seems like a waste. The ablility to unload to upgrade would certainly make Army's a little more useful. I could also live with option 3, but I likes #4 better.

On another topic, how about the option to airlift artillary.

amirsan · Aug 6, 2003

Immortal armys can be effective even untill Nationalism. I love Persia!

SinisterDeath · Aug 17, 2003

Originally posted by amirsan
Immortal armys can be effective even untill Nationalism. I love Persia!

I think it depends on what level you're playing at.

SolarFlare · Aug 17, 2003

Unhappiness causes: 100% "Hell, no, we won't unload/upgrade!"

In history, did real "great leaders" who lead an army live for hundreds of years? No. Agreed, an army of inferior units is somewhat useless, but is Napoleon still alive today commanding an army? (Can I have his autograph?) If you want a better army, build a new one, with the Military Academy.

slothman · Aug 17, 2003

If there is a way of disbanding the army unit but not the military units inside that could work. Then to upgrade you disband the army, upgrade the units, and build a new army with now-modern units. The problem is that armies are not powerful enough right now. Even the ability to heal quickly in barracks would be good.

Should Armies be Upgradeable/Unloadable?

Should Armies be Upgradeable/Unloadable ?

Yes - fully unloadable.

Yes- unloadable with a 2 or 3 turn wait penalty (stops MA to MI in the same turn to hold a city).

Yes - but only in your Capital, Forbidden Palace, Pentagon, or city with Heroic Epic/Sun-Tzu's (or s

Yes- in any city as long as it contains a barracks.

No - You can upgrade instead but once you max out (Med. Infantry/Cavalry) no more upgrading, and no

No - Until you can't upgrade your units anymore (Med infantry/cavalry), then Yes you can unload.

No - Make it an option for people. If they like it, they can choose it.

No. And that's the bottom line because I said so!

Firaxis should have allowed us this option from the start!

Quit moaning, I like the game how it is!

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