Presidential Discussion: Where to build the ToE?

GenMarshall · Aug 12, 2003

Since one of my goals in office is to make sure we are the first to build the ToE before any one elts does. The Discussion I want to put onto the table is "Where should we build the ToE?". I would recomend using a city with the greatest SPT (Shield Per turn) output.

Here is the rundown on how this should work. First, we have the chosen city make a palace-prebuild. Second, We research up to steam engine (and possibly stock up on shields with the PPB (PPB = Palace Pre-Build). Lastly, once we have discovered Scientific Method, imediately switch the PPB to the ToE.

Now I Open the floor for the discussion on where the prebuild should go

.

DaveShack · Aug 12, 2003

Originally posted by CivGeneral
Lastly, once we have discovered steam engine, imediately switch the PPB to the ToE.

Is it fair to assume you mean once Scientific Method is discovered? :lol:

GenMarshall · Aug 12, 2003

Dang, thats the last time I leave a crumb ontop of my Tech tree paper

deshelbr · Aug 12, 2003

I posted this in the Presidential thread, but it really belonged here.

I would like to suggest that each governor be allowed to submit one city in their province to the Science Department for the building of ToE and that an open poll between the four cities decide the final location.

GenMarshall · Aug 12, 2003

@Deshelbr - As I said in the Presidential thead, Sounds like a good Idea

.

Gingerbread Man · Aug 13, 2003

Well, I must say that Quirnial is completely unworthy for the honor. Sad, yet true.

This is a hint to rush more courthouses in Quirnial! I think that a capital province city would be best for this, or a city near the forbidden palace. I know that Gorina has had it's fair share of wonders, should we pump more into it, or give another city a try?

Rik Meleet · Aug 13, 2003

The TOE is very important. Therefore we should build it in one of the shields-powerhouses. Memphis, Gorina, Aureus and Noshuret.
Aureus - Cannot grow beyond 17 shields really.
Noshuret - Gets to 22 spt if all growth is halted and all mines are used (also reduces knight from 4 turns to 3).
Memphis - should build courthouse and then gets 22 spt. But I don't think an important wonder like that should be build in a city close to the front during a war, perhaps under Egyptian cultural pressure. We'll be thrown back so far if the city falls or flips right before we finish the TOE.
Gorina - Decent city, could get up to 23 or 24 spt if we stop growth and build a courthouse. I choose this city for the TOE.

Of course all my computations are based on building the TOE from scratch, not on rushing it with a Great Leader.

Donovan Zoi · Aug 13, 2003

No courthouses yet, please. There is a great chance that we can enter Democracy at the beginning of this turnchat.

DaveShack · Aug 13, 2003

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
No courthouses yet, please. There is a great chance that we can enter Democracy at the beginning of this turnchat.

I keep seeing this, so I took a closer look at the domestic page the turn before and after a switch from Monarchy to Democracy. I was playing Vikings on Emporer (no not the GOTM game). The result: Corruption did not change as a percentage of the total, at least for gold. This was on ptw 1.27f. It would be hideously expensive to check if shield production changed, but I suspect it did not.

I think an experiment and strategy article is necessary to fix the apparent misconception that Democracy is a cure-all for corruption.

I believe that the corruption will still exist, and Democracy will merely improve the ability of courthouses and police stations to correct the problem. In my own ad-hoc and non-scientific experiments, the effect of Democracy on corruption was minimal until the corruption reducing buildings are constructed.

This is not to say we shouldn't switch, the other benefits are still important.

ravensfire · Aug 13, 2003

There is also the possibility that while the amount of corruption stays the same, the increases in production and income outgains the cost of troop maintenance.

Long-term, we need to be in Democracy. Especially with our goal of a space victory. The upcoming war with Egypt shouldn't cause too much weariness. Unless we have horrendous luck, we'll have overwhelming force and fairly quickly get our target cities.

That said, I would like to see the Revolution begin immediately.

donsig · Aug 13, 2003

Anyone have any idea how close we are to getting scientific method? We need a good estimate of that so we can then estimate if it is too early to start a pre-build...

zorven · Aug 13, 2003

I think we will need to see how Democracy affects us before we can give a good estimate on time to Scientific Method.

ravensfire · Aug 13, 2003

Assuming we revolt immediately in the t/c, we'll probably have 5 at most productive turns under Democracy.

I propose that while we continue to discussion on the timing, that the actual site for ToE not be determined until after the t/c. As zorven says, the impact of Democracy could very well change the order of top producing cities.

-- Ravensfire

DaveShack · Aug 14, 2003

Here are the current production stats.

Gorina and Noshuret can be micro-managed up to 21 spt. Memphis is making 20 net spt but has 20% corruption (off 25 gross spt) and would benefit from having a courthouse built first if it were selected for ToE. Another 12 spt (corrupted down to 9spt) is possible in Memphis with full railroads.

We are 1 turn away from Magnetism, and will have to discover it to find out what Industrial Age tech deals are available, if any. Our best hope is that one of the AIs is researching Medicine, so we can potentially swap Steam Power for it.

In the absense of trades, assume that Steam, Medicine, Electicity, and Scientific Method cost an average of 5 turns each, at maximum rate. ToE will take 30 turns without rails, 20 turns with rails. We should start the prebuild now, and it will still take 10 turns more than the remaining time, sans trades.

Recommendation:

Start a prebuild in Gorina immediately.
When steam is discovered, assuming we have coal, rail the Gorina area as soon as possible.
Build Wall Street in Noshuret to give us 50gpt in extra income.

Octavian X · Aug 14, 2003

It's rather obvious, then. ToE does not need the city to have a particularly strong science output to be effective. Simply build it in the one place where it may be built as soon as possible.

I, therefore, agree. Gorina will make the best site.

zorven · Aug 14, 2003

I support DaveShack's recommendation.

GenMarshall · Aug 14, 2003

The President also supports the desision to build in Gorina.

zorven · Aug 18, 2003

Has Gorina been designated to pre-build ToE? If so, Gorina's build que shows Wall Street - this will be changed, right?

GenMarshall · Aug 18, 2003

I wonder the same thing.

@Donsig - Is the wall Street the Prebuild for the ToE?

donsig · Aug 18, 2003

Originally posted by CivGeneral
@Donsig - Is the wall Street the Prebuild for the ToE?

It wasn't meant to be. How does all this wonder building talk fit in with the silly idea we have of building 30 cavalry to invade Egypt?

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