TH5 - Cutthroat Capitalist Competitors

ROSTER rotations for easy reference:

1: T-hawk/Speaker/Rubberjello/Dark Savant/6thGenTexan
2: T-hawk/Dark Savant/Speaker/6thGenTexan/Rubberjello
3: T-hawk/6thGenTexan/Dark Savant/Rubberjello/Speaker
4: T-hawk/Rubberjello/6thGenTexan/Speaker/Dark Savant

Here's yet another idea I've been kicking around for a while. This is a COMPETITIVE game between the players involved. (Hopefully it will be good-natured and fun competition despite the title. )

Starting with the player turn after we enter Republic government, each player, for each of ther turns, scores points equal to the percentage increase in the "From Cities" income from the beginning of their play interval to the end. For example, if the F1 screen reports the "From Cities" income as 400 when I download the save file at the start of my turns, and I raise it to 560 when I upload the file again ten turns later, I score 40 points.

VARIANT RULES:
- We must enter Republic government as soon as we can and may not revolt after that.
- RBCiv exploits off limits as usual.
PLAY FAIR:
- No abandoning or giving away cities.
- No temporarily lowering the lux slider to increase cash/science income at the end of your turn.
- No giving away gold or income or overpaying to deprive the next player of our cash income. (Paying market price for anything including a monopoly tech is okay.)
DURING EACH PLAYER'S TURN:
- No more than one worker/settler merge.
- No more than one building sale.
- No more than one disbanded unit.

All civilization affairs - research, building, rushing, diplomacy, war - are up to each player to conduct as he/she thinks will best benefit the goal. This could lead to some interesting situations...

The Forbidden Palace comes to mind for one - who's going to want to start it if it won't finish on their 10 turns? Perhaps a player will conduct war to grab extra cities on their turns, even if it leaves land indefensible and doomed for the next player?

This game will have liberal timing rules, since we will want to keep the roster in order and avoid skips as much as possible. 48 hours to claim, 96 total to play.

I am thinking Standard map, 40% land, Pangaea, Emperor difficulty. Civ is up for discussion, although I think it should be industrious (we will definitely have fewer workers) and commercial (for obvious reasons).

This game will be limited to five players (including myself), although we can run another game of the same idea if there's enough interest.

So, any wanna-be robber barons out there?

T-hawk,

Wouldn't it be a good idea to always have every player lower the lux tax and science rate to 0 at the end of their turns? I think this might be the easiest way to remember and compare results... Also, this way, people will get the benefit of having built (or rushed) things like courthouses and marketplaces on their turn.

Of course, maybe I am just missing something and haven't thought about the game enough...

JMB

Hell, I'll join . AM3 is going slow. But I am leaving for Canada soon (the 21st), and I won't be back until around the 30th. So put me down with a question mark. If four other people sign up, feel free to drop me.

You can get maximum commerce income either from 100% tax or from 100% science. I think that comparaison should be made between the highest of the two at the beginning and at the end.

Idea is good but the game itself could be hurt by the competition.

I'm not joining but following the concept.

JMB: How much cash and science to run is up to the player. As Yndy says, either maximum tax or maximum science (leaving any required lux tax in place) will result in maximum commerce income, depending on what buildings are in place. The player can adjust that slider at will, so the comparison will effectively be between the highest of the possibilities.

Yndy: Of course the game will be hurt by the competition. You better bet we'll be building marketplaces instead of needed military or workers, that's the point.

I guess there isn't a whole lot of interest? C'mon, it should be a good-natured competition

Now this is a truely interesting concept, one where you could well win the battle and yet lose the war!
By putting the one thing that Succesion Games are assumed (teamwork) to the stake, you've created an interesting variant.

I am sorely tempted to join, although I may not turn out to be the cutthroat type you may be looking for. I would be tempted to "do the right thing" in order to win the game and just say "hang it" to my personal score.

Some thoughts:

Add another rule to limit disbanding of military (otherwise they'll all get turned into marketplaces! ) No more than one disbanded unit per player turn.

This could also be set up as a team game, 4 or 6 players divided into two teams, adding up the score from all the players on each team. Would that be a bit more palatable and less cutthroat for any lurkers still considering joining?

Finally, do note that the competition doesn't start until we get into Republic, so we have plenty of time to develop a normal base of cities that should be sufficient for us to hold our own well enough on Emperor.

I'm in.

One other possibility: are we going to have rules about swapping builds? I'm not concerned about normal builds, I'm just wondering if we're ever going to complete a wonder later on if people decide that Palace pre-build looks better as a bank.

The guy/team finishing Smiths will definitely score a ton of points. Leaders would be good for that purpose.

Originally posted by Yndy
The guy/team finishing Smiths will definitely score a ton of points. Leaders would be good for that purpose.

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure ... the only measure is the 'From Cities', doesn't Smiths just reduce the 'To Cities' cost?

Won't be able to join this one, T-Hawk, but school starts again today

I'll join. I expect ST1 to finish relatively soon and besides that, all I have going on is Epic36. Since we know from the beginning that the whole point is to bludgeon and undercut each other, I will be quite offended if anyone takes offense.

OK. Currently interested are:

T-hawk
Tsukemono5
Rubberjello (do you indeed want in?)
Dark Savant
Speaker

I will randomly determine a roster order for when we start, rather than risk favoritism by assigning who gets to play after whom. Tsukemono can be skipped for a round if he's away until the 30th, as the despotism phase doesn't matter until we get into Republic.

Yes, the From Cities number is the one that matters. I pick that indicator specifically because there's actually pretty little that one can do to unfairly manipulate that. Few wonders affect it; happiness wonders can affect it indirectly by allowing lux tax to be lowered, but the only wonders that directly affect the From Cities income are the Colossus and the three double-science buildings. Even the Forbidden Palace only affects it semi-directly, as corrupted income IS counted in From Cities; what the FP does is allow more of it to be affected by multiplier buildings.

Dark Savant: swapping builds will be an interesting thing to see develop when each player is out for themselves. Yup, building wonders will definitely be difficult.

One thing that will have to be addressed - Golden Age does boost the From Cities income, and tremendously so. I'm tempted to go into the editor and edit GA length to zero for this game...?

Also, anyone have any comments or thoughts on the map/civ selection? I'm leaning towards Carthage for the traits, and also the shades of Epic 25...

Sure. I'm in. It will be a challenge for me because I will have to savagely squelch my teamwork instincts.

Carthage would be great!
I don't know about the Golden Age question. On the surface it may seem unfair to some, but on the other hand it would add to the subtrefuge and strategy to try to use it to your advantage or deny it to the current leader in points. This game very well may get a lot of traffic on the PM side for some wheels and deals.

@CHrth? can you confirm that "CTR 2 -- Illuminati Underground" is officially dead for now? I was leaving a slot open on my available Civ3 time for that one.

I'd like to keep the Golden Age as is. 20 turns will mean that at least two players will get the benefit and possibly 3 and I think it will greatly add fun and excitement. I immediately thought of Carthage and Epic 25, so I'll vote for them. Of course we could make sure to trigger our Golden Age before we hit Republic and the competition starts and then the GA is a moot point.

Yeah, I realized that too. As soon as a player realizes that Republic will be reached before his next turn (including the turn that we do reach Republic), it's in his best interest to start a war and kick off the Golden Age so that another player doesn't get a massive boost during his turn. So, since that will probably happen, that isn't a problem. Just one adjustment - for the player turn during which the GA ends (if we're in Republic then), no negative score will be assessed if the From Cities income turns out to be lower at the end than at the betinning.

It also means - and I love how perfectly this works out - that the player who does play the GA will have a war on his hands.

OK... Tonight or tomorrow I'll determine a roster order and set up a map. Tsukemono, we'll probably skip you for the first round (while in despotism) and let you take a normal slot again when you get back on the 30th.

You could also play as Korea making that build it or not build it wonder decision even more interesting.

I hope we don't get a dry start. That would go against the spirit of the game!
"Greed is good. Greed works."

We should probably limit the sale of buildings as well -- otherwise, someone will decide, "hey, if I sell off all of our barracks, granaries, and temples, I'll have enough cash to rush two libraries".

Is there an open spot for a newly re-united civ player??

Amirsan - we've already got five, and you do have plenty of games already and a bit of a habit of disappearing; this game will run much better on a more solid schedule. Nothing personal, of course.

Thanks to a feast of my other two current games coming up at the same time, I'll get this one started tomorrow night. I updated the first post with a few extra rules and clarifications; any comments welcome.

The roster order, as determined by a highly advanced random number method (ten-sided dice ) is this:

T-hawk
Speaker
Rubberjello
Dark Savant
Tsukemono5