Domestic Discussion: 3 Turns of 0% Science?

It seems that we are well on our way to building the Theory of Evolution, and making a great tech leap forward in the process. I would like to take advantage of this lead by granting a temporary halt on research so that we may may increase our treasury for Fanatica's many needs.

These things include:

1. Rushing improvements in slow-production cities.
2. Bringing our military up to date by upgrading obsolete units.
3. Rushing the occasional worker in 1-2 spt cities, for use in the Size 12 Plan.

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Here's how it works:

Next turn we discover Industrialization, after which we will set the queue to Atomic Theory. Since we don't want to waste a turn of research on a tech that ToE will give us the turn after, we should immediately set the Science slider to 0%. Doing so will net us 735gpt.

So at the very least, I hope that everyone is convinced that we should do this for at least one turn.

After this, we may want to consider staying at 0% for the next two turns as it would net us another 1470 in gold . That's over 2200g in three turns!

After we do this, we should have no problem getting back in the tech race by setting science at a high research rate, and we will even be able to endure -gpt for some time. It will also allow the Domestic Department to select and accept several more rush and upgrade requests immediately, rather than waiting for the treasury to build up again.

For instance, we are currently making -3gpt with 1800+ gold. At this current rate, a few budget requests will take us dangerously close to the 1000g mark, where we will risk losing Wall Street interest. This quick infusion of cash willl allow us to take advantage of great opportunities now, with minimal loss of research time.

What do you think, Fanatica?

hmm.......

thing is we really need to get Nationalism soon...

Though this isn't a bad Idea, I just have certain reservations about doing it.

If we get far enough ahead in tech, Falcon, we should be able to trade for Nationalism.

Plus I would rather head for Replaceable Parts anyway(either before or preferably after Sanitation). This will get us Infantry, whereby we start the whole upgrade process all over again.

I dont really think Nationalism is necessary to our development at the moment. There are far more important techs we need and we can always trade for those 3 later on in the game.

Sanitaition and RP are more needed than Nationalism, we don't need Communism, we don't need Police Stations at the moment on account of the 12 size city plan, and we don't need spies immediatly.

I'm all for 3 turns of 0% science.

It is a very good idea. We may lose 2 turns in the tech race but it is more important that we can achieve some sensible production in the provinces.
With the coming of clean drinking water and proper sewerage our cities will be able to grow to unprecedented levels. We need the money generated by this plan to accelerate this programme of public works. There are still some cities without aquaducts and properly irrigated fields. These issues are of prime importance to Fanatica.
OUR CITIES MUST GROW. SUPPORT THIS PLAN

I'm also in support of this idea DZ. This won't hurt us in the science race, and will give our economy and military forces a nice boost.

My only stipulation would be to suggest that all of the money raised in this be spent within two full turn chats (that is, we earn it next chat (Wednesday). We have the following two chats to spend it.). We already have 1800 gold. There are a lot of demands on the treasury, most especially the need to keep our military up to date. If we raise the funds, we should use them, not stuff them under our mattress!

Again, great idea! As both the Science Advisor and the Domestic Leader agree, I plan to carry this out tomorrow.

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

Originally posted by ravensfire
I'm also in support of this idea DZ. This won't hurt us in the science race, and will give our economy and military forces a nice boost.

My only stipulation would be to suggest that all of the money raised in this be spent within two full turn chats (that is, we earn it next chat (Wednesday). We have the following two chats to spend it.). We already have 1800 gold. There are a lot of demands on the treasury, most especially the need to keep our military up to date. If we raise the funds, we should use them, not stuff them under our mattress!

Again, great idea! As both the Science Advisor and the Domestic Leader agree, I plan to carry this out tomorrow.

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica

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Mr. President,

With all due respect, I wouldn't have devised this proposal if I didn't have big plans for the money.

Seriously, thanks to all for your support. I plan to use these funds to honor all reasonable rush requests as well as come up with a few of my own.

Also, I would to upgrade at least 12 Spearmen to Muskets(960g) immediately under this plan, in the hopes that this action will allow Aventine to switch production from Muskets in some cities.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi


Mr. President,

With all due respect, I wouldn't have devised this proposal if I didn't have big plans for the money.

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Yes, I'm aware of your "plans" for that money. Mr. Pindleton and I had a discussion about the rather large number of suitcases you were recently seen purchasing. And the boat you've chartered. I think the number of dancing girls was a bit extravagent though. I mean, 10 of 'em?

Mr. Pindleton will be keeping a close eye on that money.

-- Ravensfire

This looks like a good proposal. I can trust that the gold netted off of this will be well-spent.

I do think the science can be stopped for 2 turns, even 5 or 10 if you like, but I do think the money generated this way should have a properly defined use. And that brings us back to the discussion: What is our Goal?
Just getting money for the sake of getting money isn't smart. Getting money to use without discussion isn't wise either.

I think the money should be used according to the principe of "What can wait, should wait. What can't wait, shouldn't".

- Upgrade the military : it can wait.
- Finally get some buldings : we've waited far too long; it can't wait.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi


Mr. President,

With all due respect, I wouldn't have devised this proposal if I didn't have big plans for the money.

Seriously, thanks to all for your support. I plan to use these funds to honor all reasonable rush requests as well as come up with a few of my own.

Also, I would to upgrade at least 12 Spearmen to Muskets(960g) immediately under this plan, in the hopes that this action will allow Aventine to switch production from Muskets in some cities.

Click to expand...

12 muskets? woohoo.
I like this plan very much. However there is a policy consultation paper floating around which suggests that 2 muskets in each city in each province is a good idea.
What is Domestic's view on this?

I think this plan is acceptable. Now, can I request a new chair, Peri took his with him to the Military Dept......

@Peri - I believe that 2 Muskets per city is fine on the perimeter and harbor cities, where we would be most vulnerable. However, on our interior cities, I really don't see the need for two muskets. Ther is no more martial law, and our new breed of "rail-cavalry" will more than protect these cities by removing any possible threat. Remember that opposing units lumber along at one movement point per tile, rails or not.


@Rik - the 12 Muskets I propose rushing will be it for this turnchat until we can further assess our treasury situation. I feel these are a necessary expense to shore up our borders, as well as to ensure that we don't fall too far behind in the upgrade process. I too would like to keep some gold on hand for rushing of Factories and Hospitals when the time comes(and it will....soon ).

Please look at the Factory Switch NOW thread for my ideas regarding Tyvek and Gorina.

I would like to see some money to rush a factory in Tyvek (I know, not my province).

Falcon proposed to switch from bank to courthouse wasting 60 shields. I propose to wait 1 turn to get industrialization, then switch to factory there and cashrush it. That would make Tyvek even more productive and gives us security we will get both wonders.

Muskets can be build from scratch; it's harder to do that with factories or wonders.

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
I would like to see some money to rush a factory in Tyvek (I know, not my province).

Falcon proposed to switch from bank to courthouse wasting 60 shields. I propose to wait 1 turn to get industrialization, then switch to factory there and cashrush it. That would make Tyvek even more productive and gives us security we will get both wonders.

Click to expand...

I agree with this, Rik. See if you can get buy-in from Falcon on this, otherwise we may need to use a spot vote.

Muskets can be build from scratch; it's harder to do that with factories or wonders.

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True, but the more units we upgrade, the less we have to produce from scratch. Why pay maintenance for obsolete units on top of new units? Just upgrade the old so that more cities can build Hospitals etc instead of Muskets.

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
I agree with this, Rik. See if you can get buy-in from Falcon on this, otherwise we may need to use a spot vote.

Click to expand...

I'm in for both the 3 turns of 0% sci and the Factories, however a rush on the Courthouse after the Factory I think would be adventageous.

With the Factory, we may not need the Courthouse to meet our goal. Unfortunately, I don't have time to do the math right now.

I did some math in the Factory switch now thread

From my best estimate, a Factory will increase the production by about 10 shields, barring any further corruption. A courthouse should increase production by about 4.

Assuming we do both (and I don't have a clue about the costs - can't remember the gold per shield ratio), turn 3 the Factory completes. Turn 4 we put 1 turn of production into the courthouse. Turn 5 we rush it, turn 6 it completes. Post Factory and Courthouse should give us a production of 34-35, or so.

Time to build 800 shield wonder
Current status: 40
Courthouse only: 32
Factory only: 27
Both: 23

Is it work it, marginally for now. A lot will depend on the inpact of corruption. I think that if Tyvek has a production of 27 after the Factory, we go straight to the wonder, and queue the Courthouse up.

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatica