Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (part-hex)

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Celeborn

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LotR Thread I:
LotR Modders UNITE!!!
Half-way-point.
LotR Thread II:
Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54134&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=4
Half-way-point.
LotR Thread III:
Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (cont)
Half-way-point.
LotR thread IV:
Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (4)
Half-way-point
LotR thread V:
Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (5)[Latest]
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60650http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60650 Half-way-point

This may be unnecessary to the regulars, feel free to skip it.
We started working on this MOD as a ‘gathering’ of Modders, who had an acute interest in Lord of the Rings. This is a continuation of five threads created, as seen at the Links above. We made some significant progress in actually working together to make a collaboration of ideas, to please everyone.

Thread Log
-In the Third installment of our collaboration, significant work was completed on the buildings\wonder\improvement front. Unfortunately it was sort of sporadic, and it's hard to define just what we did ;).
Discussion of the maps also took place, at which point Yoda Power offered to make an older version of Middle-earth, you can see this here

-In the Fourth thread, we have gathered some new blood, and discussed about how to implement certain civilizations into the game, namely Isengard and Rohan. We set our course to make it clear, to stomp on the sporadic-ness of the third thread.

-In the Fifth thread, more new blood, significant progress in the joining of graphic designers (even if it's just for a while :) ), and a recession, in which the new blood has expressed their long bottled up opinions on how the mod should go. Talks on the tech tree in a forum based discussion has been put off for a bit. We should let the new (and old) idea's re-circulate, meanwhile, chat based discussion on the tech tree will take place at undefined periods, then re-introduced into the sixth installment of the thread.

1.) Resources (completed)
2.) Tech Tree (see above)
3.) Random Map Civ listings
4.) Finalize Units
5.) Update 'engine'
6.) Governments *Beta Released
7.) Fine tuning Undefined period-


Large amounts of intellectual discussion should be going on, while in the background techs are completed, then posted to see the forumer’s general opinion.
End Thread Log.

FAQ
What is going to be in the MOD? When will it span? What are the Civs? Has work started yet?

1.)When will it span?
Well, we decided that the Mod should start slightly before the coming of man. Like this:
  • Era#1 First Age (middle-late first age, with the arrival of man)
  • Era#2 Time of the Rings (Elven supremacy and Saurons Power)
  • Era#3 Time of the Númenóreans\Dark Age (Supremacy of Man, Numenor and it's later subdivisions\Last Alliance)
  • Era#4 Third Age(Best known, time of the peace, yet weakened state, time of the fellowship)

This way it won’t be strange to have all civs in existence, and yet it still has the remarkable, mythological ‘old middle-earth’ in tact.

2.)What are the Civs?
We haven’t been able to agree on Civs at this point, we have all the important ones but have some minor squabbles, such as: is Arnor, Gondor, and Numenorë really necessary? Should Umbar and the Southrons be one civ? Should there be two Dwarf Civs? We have been arguing about this forever, it seems to lean towards accepting Gondor and Arnor, but leaving out Numenor.
Yet for the Random Map, perhaps Numenor should be included? We would really love your input.

The Important Civs we have made lists for can be located here:
The Shire
Gondor
The Dwarves
Mordor
High Elves (Noldorian)


Some civs that may or may not be added, or ones that are not finished yet, can be found here (thanks SoCalian) :
Valinor
Haradrim
Numenor
Rohan
Arnor
Dale


3.) What is going to be in the MOD?
We plan on four versions of the Mod, most important first.

Mod Types
  • Random Map Mod (regular)
  • Middle Earth- Map of Middle Earth, with specific placed things (like dragons)
  • Lord Of the Rings quest- (You can only choose out of 3 Civs, though the rest make an appearance, but depending on the Civ you choose, you have a specific Victory cond.)
  • Older version- This will have modified ages, and different civs, such as the Vanyar, and unique buildings\wonders.

4.) Has Work Started on the .bix yet?
Yes, Celeborn has been working on the .bix for a bit now, we still remain in the red however, and need some more direction from fellow LotR fans. As seen above, the Beta will be revealed in do time. Work on the .bix isn't really necessary until a little bit later, we will have it all mapped out by then.

5.) I would like to join in this project, is there anything I can do to make the production go faster?
Well, we will always have need of those talented artists. If you would like to make some building graphics, just pick one off the list below, but make sure work on that hasn't already started or been completed.
If you would like to make units for the game, certain ones we are looking for are:
  • Silvian Archer-
    A Wood Elf type of unit, used for, Well an Elven archer unit. Preferably hooded :).
  • Troll-
    We already have the Cave Troll, and this unit is great, but we would like to use an early offensive unit that would act as one of the expensive 'behemoth units' for Mordor, similar to the Cave Troll, yet smaller, and more lithe.
  • Medieval Worker-
    A worker, more heavily clothed than the Civ3 counterpart, yet still more 'medieval' than the Civ3 Modern Worker.
  • Dwarven archer unit-
    If this was made we would be sure to find a use for it, as it is one thing of which this civilization is lacking.

We would also appreciate civilopedia entries, but we can't comment on those yet.
End FAQ

Buildings

Download the Building list right here.
Rich Text doc (wordpad-recommended)
Regular text doc.(notepad)


Resources-
Strategic:
Iron: +2s +0f +0: mountain, hills
Horses: +1s +0f +1c: Grassland, Hills, Plains
Timber: +1s +0f +0c: forest
Stone: +2s +0f +1c: mountain, hills
Wolves: -0s -1f -1c: tundra, forest

Luxuries:
Mithril: +4s +0f +4c: mountains
Wine: +0s +1f +2c: hills\grassland
Pipeweed:+0s +0f +2c: grassland\plains
Salt: +0s +1f +2c: hills
Gems:+0s +0f +2c: hills\mountains
Gold: +0s +0f +3c: hills\mountains
Wool:+1s +1f +1c: hills\grassland
Lebethron:+0s +0f +2c: forests

Bounus:
Wheat:+0s +2f +0c: grassland\plains\flood plain*
Oliphaunts:+2s +0f +0c: plains
Coneys:+0s +1f +0c: forests\grasslands\plains\hills
Deer:+1s +1f +0c: forest\hills\mountains
Cattle:+1s +2f +1c: grassland\plains
Fish:+0s +2f +1c: coast\sea
Silver:+0s +0f +2c: hills\mountains
Taters:+0s +2f +0c: grassland
Mushrooms:+0s +1f +0c: grassland\forest
Wasetland: -1s -1f -1c: Wilderland

Unit Lines
A word on the difference between civilizations unit lines.

Elves-
The idea we have so far, if to make Elven units better, let them only get slightly better, in the last age, and go up in Shield Cost Substantially, after all, they weren’t weaker then men, just fewer.

Mordor-
The idea was to make their Offensive line weaker, half or a third as cheap as the Mens. And going further, they get stronger behemoth units, that cost much more than the Mens'. Giving them something to look forward to.

Men-
They act sort of like a standard. Everything is weaker, or more powerful compared to their units, they are the default.

Hobbits-
A passive Civ, We may make only the Space Race Victory available to them, only it will be different, and called something like ‘Journey to Mt. Doom’. All their units are Def. oriented.

Dwarves-
The Dwarves are dwellers of the mountains, they will get a slew of unique bonuses, such as certain resources unique to them, and the ability to travel through mountains easier than most Civs.

Bombard- We gave all the archer units a Bombard ability, they will not be able to attack the ground, but when a group of 2 archers are attacked, the first archer will fire at the attacker (depending on the Bombard Strength) they should wound the offender accordingly. Lethal Bombardment will probably be checked.

If you would like to download the Unit lists, you can do so here, they are available in two formats, the first being of better quality, the second is the lists straight forward, in standard text format.

(Thanks Mrtn)
Word Pad-Rich Text Doc.(Recommended)
Standard Text Document

Public Tech Tree progress as of Aug 23, 2003
PTP


Early barbarian listings
Prim. Barb.



Now lets get on with it :goodjob:Tech-Tree Discussion
 
I just sawe in the first thread here some talk about leaving the numenoreans out. We cant do that... The numenoreans represent the men at their highest. Before theyre downfall the numenoreans were equally great with the elves at theyre peak... The numnoerans must be included...

About the small civs im not sure, but it would be neat to have civs like Dale...
I think that the Southrons\Haradrim should only be one civ..
 
Sir John-
I just sawe in the first thread here some talk about leaving the numenoreans out. We cant do that... The numenoreans represent the men at their highest. Before theyre downfall the numenoreans were equally great with the elves at theyre peak... The numnoerans must be included...

About the small civs im not sure, but it would be neat to have civs like Dale...
I think that the Southrons\Haradrim should only be one civ..
I disagree. I think the Southrons and Easterners should be separate. Moreover, while Númenore is very important, it should only be included in the Random Map version. Not a 'Middle-earth map' unless it is fine toned to the 2nd age.
 
So we need to decide quickly if this thread is going to continue the techs or start putting them together in a tree...

or go of on a completly different track...
 
The Last Conformist-
If I may weigh in, I think Southrons/Haradrim, Easterlings and Umbar should be three different civs.
For the Random Map:

Umbar:). That’s a new spin on an old tale. Well if I had to argue it out (and rest assured, I will;) ) I would say Umbar has no purpose of being a new civilization. For instance, if we look at Gondor, we have tons of different regions that are all tributaries to Gondor, and under her protection, should they be unique civs also? IMO no, as for the evil civs, naturally we don’t want all of these civs to be tributaries of Mordor, so we split it up a bit. The only time Umbar was successful was when it was in a coalition with the Haradrim (North and South).
So who were ‘Umbarians’ so to speak, what were they?

We know they were originally the ‘Black Númenoreans’ who apparently were on Middle-earth before the island was swallowed. And, they were destroyed by Gondor in the third age, we assume they fled to other parts under Mordors sway, and Gondor did not allow them to live long and prosper ;). Before this, we hear that the kin-strife held in Gondor. Gondor apparently (yet eventually) kicked the revolutionaries out, and they fled to the stronghold of Umbar and thus became the ‘corsairs’. When Sauron was able to gain control of Umbar in the 3rd age, we now enter a new type of civilization, not really Black Númenoreans, more of a mixed breed of peoples. And yet again, they were assimilated into Gondor with the downfall of the Lord of the Rings.

So Umbar can’t really be a Black Númenorean faction, it can’t be a part of Gondor, a Corsiar civ wouldn’t work well just to silly, so what can we make them? I think it’s to un-important to be a new civilization. Because of this we shouldn’t go to great lengths to make them unique, as we will do with Isengard. It’s like Khand and the Easterners, two separate civs? I shouldn’t hope so.

And as for the divided Gondor argument, I have to say this:
Should the United Confederate States of America be a new Civilization? Should England be divided between the Yorkists and the Lancastrians? Remember this argument only holds for the Random Map version, I am up for a separate civilization in a Middle-earth map version.

My take on the subject, at least:).

EDIT***
Celeborn-
So we need to decide quickly if this thread is going to continue the techs or start putting them together in a tree...

or go of on a completly different track...
A completely different track is the wisest course, honestly, it’s to hard to discuss it with 20 people on 10 different subjects;). The few of us who want to do the techs, will post updates on all the different techs, and post them up here. Then we can still all decide together and have something to go on.
 
I'm just here eagerly awaiting the next set of techs. I figure we need a minimum of 70 to give the mod a real full feel. We're at "55", but many of them need to be eliminated (and 29 was skipped). mrtn and PCH have been promising a fuller 2nd/3rd/4th era list for a while...and I'm eagerly awaiting it.

Just thought of something else. Conquests might solve our Ringwraith problem. I'm thinking the Daimyo from the Japanese scenario, who upgrades over time, might well require coding and options similar to our nine Ringwraiths, so that they can be made properly when C3C is out....

Plus, I'm subscribing to the thread.... ;)
Arathorn
 
I havent said that the numnoreans should be in the ME map as they barleley were there.. the main part of them was as u know on their own island.. they only should be inlcuded on a random map or on a "second age" map...

mrtn: Pleeeease post those tech soon :) I need something to critisize so that I can revive my creativity ;)

Im not sure if the easterlings and the southrons should be separate but If we have enough information an stuff about them and that it would be at least somewhat histroicly correct then I guess I could agree with that...

If the daimyo works as we hope then that might solve another problem... Maby it give mordor some weak balrogs in the begnning and then only make them better trough upgrading them.. :)
 
Originally posted by Arathorn
Just thought of something else. Conquests might solve our Ringwraith problem. I'm thinking the Daimyo from the Japanese scenario, who upgrades over time, might well require coding and options similar to our nine Ringwraiths, so that they can be made properly when C3C is out....

Plus, I'm subscribing to the thread.... ;)
Arathorn
You should be able to just use king units for the main characters. Since these character units are not buildable they will be preplaced on the map. You can make them all kings and that way they will be able to upgrade without being buildable. I don't think you need conquests in order to acheive this effect.

In this way you should be able to take all the major characters from the books and make them "Kings". You could set the game up to play as regicide or not, it doesn't matter, you can still place the king units and use them. One issue to be considered is the AI's use of King units. Generally the AI just hides them in cities. So, in order to avoid this you would have to not give these character units the King AI strategy, and instead give them the offensive strategy which will become available if you check the "capture" flag.

Then at various stages in the game you can have new "techs" that allow the player to upgrade specific characters increasing their potency and increasing their chances of surviving and conquering the enemy.
 
First I've redone a tech Arathorn posted in the waning days of the last thread. The orcs are already coming at a lot of techs, and we don't have a troll unit yet, but we wont give up hope, eh? :)

Tech ID #: 29
Name: Corruption
Era: 2nd or 3rd I'm momentarily confused, but I think 2nd
Unit(s): ev. troll unit
Buildings and Wonders: The second Pit
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None
*Only available to evil civs.

Tech ID #: 56
Name: Pledge of Barahir
Era: Late 1st
Unit(s): 2nd Def (men)
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None
*Not required for era advancement

Tech ID #: 57
Name: Leather Armor
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): 2nd Man and Mordor offensive
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID #: 58
Name: Composite Bow
Era: 2nd
Unit(s): 2nd Missile (Mordor\Men)
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID #: 59
Name: Long Bow
Era: 4th
Unit(s): Longbows (Men and Elves)
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID #: 60
Name: Chain Mail
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): 3rd era offensive, 3rd era men and orc archers
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID #: 61
Name: Stirrups
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): Cavalry and Warg Rider (men\orc)
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Tech ID #: 62
Name: Cavalry Tactics
Era: 4th
Unit(s): Knight
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None
*Only available to men civs

Tech ID #: 63
Name: Military Formations (?)
Era: 4th
Unit(s): 4th era off (men/orcs)
Buildings and Wonders: None
Resources: None
Worker abilities: None
Other Abilities: None

Techs revisited:
Tech ID #: 41
Name: City Guard
Era: 3rd
Unit(s): 3rd era def
Buildings and Wonders: City Guard
Resources: none
Worker abilities: none
Other Abilities: none

You want to be creative, I hear you cry? Give me the names of the techs that give "Armored Pikeman" and "Cave Troll". These are both 4th era defensive units, but I have trouble seeing them come at the same tech; so, two tech names please. :D I warn you, I've shot down PCHighways all proposals, I'm cruel. :evil:

I also besiege all unit creators out there to make more dwarves. We could use Kindreds first versions of his dwarves, but they are both very like the later version (they're only tidied up, after all) and not as good looking as those (as they needed tidying up :crazyeye: ). So, dwarves and hobbits seems to have the most need of units. :)

Kal-el, that works in the "Quest"-type scenario we probably will make, but we'll also make a random map version, and one version on a ME map that starts in the First Age. And we cant have Frodo running around for thousands of years. :lol: I can PM you an idea about how to get nineish Nazguls with Conquests.
 
Please post specific unit requests for LotR, that would help the creators. I Plan to do these units during next 2 weeks, I think at least the elves will fit in LotR.

Wood Elf Spearman (you've seen the preview)
Wood Elf Archer
Wood Elf Cavalry, not sure if armed with bow or spear
High Elf Cavalry
Dark Elf on raptor
Dwarf w/ hand cannon
 
Mrtn:
Leather armour in second era???? Isnt leather like stone age basic??
And u get calvalry before calvalry tactics?? uh...

Embryodead: The elf calvalry should have both (two attacks) and should be quite lithe armoured..

The high elf calvalry should look "rich" some gold and shiny stuff.. just to get the "pure feel" (white horse ofcourse)

Dark elf on raptor???? WTF?? A raptor???
Hand Cannon?? What have u been smoking??

techs:

The pike man tech could be named:

Adv. Iron working
Defensive formations
Defensive tactics
Defensive armour
Heavy Armour
Pikemen armour

If that isn good enough then u find something better ;)

The cave troll could with a tech named:

Deep mining
Slavery
Slavery Mining
Orc Mining
Forced labour
Troll Breeding
Troll slavery
Troll Capturing

I think that one of those should do it.. :)
 
Originally posted by Sir John
Mrtn:
Leather armour in second era???? Isnt leather like stone age basic??
And u get calvalry before calvalry tactics?? uh...
Got any better names? Those where among those me and PCHighway had problems with.
I saw your pike and troll tech names, let's see if anyone can top them. ;)

Originally posted by Sir John
...Dark elf on raptor???? WTF?? A raptor???
Hand Cannon?? What have u been smoking??
...
He isn't smoking. He is making a Warhammer mod. I thought you knew. :rolleyes: And he is very kind as he let's us use those graphics for this mod.

Embryodead: I'll post a unit list in a sec.
 
This is unit's we'd like to get help with creating. Pretty please with Lembas on top? :)
I have gone through the Unit Lines document, and found these soft spots in the dragons stomach:


Elven Spearman (embryodead's working on it)

Elven Archer -"-

Elven Swordsman (More lightly armed than Kinboat's, will upgrade to this)

Two Elven Cavalry units, weapons doesn't matter that much, bow or spear sounds nice. :)


One Dwarf Defender (Complement Kindreds High Guard)

One Dwarf Offensive unit (Complement Kindreds Ironbreaker, probably heavier armor.)

Another Dwarf (a fast runner, think Dain and the dwarves from Iron Hills. A pickaxe and a shield would be very cool)

We have also talked about a Dwarf Archer, though it hasn't been added to the list yet.

EDIT: We want the archer, it's just that we haven't given it any proper stats yet. I have a way with words, haven't I? :crazyeye:

One of these three dwarves can use embryodead's Dwarf berserk. Remember, the unit list was made this spring, a lot of units have been created during the summer. :)

The Hobbits are a problem. We'd like 5 hobbit units, and only have one yet. Two Archers and two more are needed. One Spearhobbit and some Hobbit Militia type unit, maybe having some sort of farming implement. Or another spear. We are the beggars, after all. :)


A Troll would be nice.

A Worker with some clothes on (aka Medieval Worker).



If I missed any please tell. The Orc and Men lines seems as if they work, at least. UU's have not been decided yet.
 
Originally posted by mrtn
First I've redone a tech Arathorn posted in the waning days of the last thread. The orcs are already coming at a lot of techs, and we don't have a troll unit yet, but we wont give up hope, eh? :)

There is an ogre unit I saw floating around somewhere that looks similiar to a small troll. It could be touched up or something and made a troll by one of these amazing unit makers here. Just a thought. Now that I think about it, It was on Embryodead's sig.

@embryodead: I don't know if the raptor or hand cannon will go far in this mod since I kinda tried throwing in gunpowder stuff in an earlier thread and was shot down.:slay:, but they still sound cool to me and would love to see them in the War Hammer mod.

As far as new techs for later era's I was wondering about the Istari. Were the Istari the only mages in ME? If not there could be shamans for evil civs and wizards for good civs. Sorceress for elves and so on. Besides, wasn't the White Council several Istari? Only ones I know are Radagast the Brown, Saruman the White(Colorful), and Gandalf the Grey(White).
 
Alatar and Pallando:
Two of the five Wizards who came to the northwest of Middle-earth in the Third Age; they journeyed into the east, and never returned to the western lands.
 
I am working on Hobbit units and buildings. I just don't have the time. 4 Honors classes, Inline Hockey, Young Republicans, Technology Student Association, and Boy Scouts of America only leave Wednesday and Sunday availiable. I will do as much as possible on weekends.


CAN someone please tell me where I can find clothes for 3DS MAX 5. I am in the middle of a hobbit militia. I just can't get the clothes. I need help, it is impossible to do it from scratch unless I go to a tech school for 18 months and $4000. PLEASE HELP!
 
to all: gosh, I though I stated clear it is *my* to-do list, but some of it may fit in LotR. I never wanted any raptors or gunpowder in middle-earth.

mrtn - from above list, I might try to do a troll later, it would be something more like a one-of-those-three trolls from Hobbit.

EDIT: Peregrin_Took - 3DS isn't too popular here, I doubt anyone can help you, though I have one idea. I assume 3DS imports Wavefront .obj files. Check www.renderosity.com and runtimedna.com FreeStuff sections, and look for Poser clothings/props (It has the most extensive library of models on the net). Look for the geometry .obj file and load it into 3DS. It won't conform/morph etc., but you should have ready model to start with.
 
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