*Spoiler1* Gotm23-Arabs Full World Map+All contacts+Middle Age

Spoiler1* Gotm23 Full world map visibility plus contact with all rival civs plus you must have completed the ancient age.

Please read these instructions to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the new spoiler rules.

Spoiler threads are divided to allow players to participate in spoiler discussions AFTER they have played their game far enough to pass a certain point in time and have already gained specific knowledge of the game.

For this game, every player must pass three tests in order to be able to view or participate this spoiler discussion thread.

For the Gotm23:

1. Full world map visibility of the entire starting landmass.
2. Contact with all 9 rivals or their remains.
3. Plus you must have completed the ancient age.


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You may discuss any game features/easter eggs that you discovered prior to the cutoffs.

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This thread is intended to focus on things that you did in the game that lead up to getting out of the ancient age. It may have taken you longer to gain contact will all the rival civs but confine your discussion to the events in the ancient age "or I will have your tongue cut out."

SUGGESTED MAPS, SCREEN SHOTS and DISCUSSION TOPICS:

1) try to report and discuss how you progressively gained contact with other civilizations in your world. One thing that really helps in this is a minimap with colored arrows that shows your exploration path as well as any chains of contact trades that you may have made.

2) You may want to discuss specifics about the configuration of the geography in this game because this is a unique map situation that you will not encounter in games outside of the GOTM game under the "guiding game's master" style of play.

3) Discuss strategic choices and why you made them for this game, while staying with in the bounds of the spoiler rules.

4) PTW players will notice that the Ivory resources in their game will inadvertently show up as an untradable bonus resource instead of as a luxury. This error was as a dirrect result of the map upgrade and conversion process that forces us to import the map manually between the Civ3v1.29 and PTWv1.14 versions in order to bypass two known bugs that can result in total game culture shut down due to flaws in how the PTW software has implemented the Culture Flipping switch off that we do not want to use in the GOTM games. There are still 8 available luxury resource in you game even without Ivory amd due to a number of other game factors, this lack of Ivory should have little or no effect on game play if you are attentive to the trade screens. Just pretend that the enemy has no Ivory available to trade to you which they probably wouldn't do anyway if you were in a dominating game position.

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PTW 1.27 Open
With Labor Day off I've moved well beyond this point, but I got off to an unusually difficult start for Monarch level. (A wee bit of trouble with an invincible Carthagian Horseman -ha ha ho he parry spin guard thrust THWAP).

I found the starting position very unappealing for expansion. And for the 3rd straight game have tried lowballing science - which apparently isn't my thing. Next game I'm going to lowball the income and go for my usual science advantage.

This one's fun though, it's easier to pick allies because of the central location. You get a good idea of who's going to attack you next (or vice versa) and can cozy up to his neighbors.

Good luck all

Cracker.

I must commend you on this map. It is by far one of the most interesting that I have ever played.

I am playing conquest!

It's funny how little the luxeries we ended up getting, most people had it all wrong thinking that it would be all about trade.

I must say that it was pretty hard to get to the horses. I managed to get to them 2 turns after i discovered horseback riding

By the end of the ancient era I had basically overfun half of the carthigans and expanded to the bounds of my "island" in the sand

I tried a different tactic this month decidng on a complete military domination style (usually I focus on building wonders)

I managed to grab a leader some time towards the very end of the ancient era when fighing with the carthigans.

I was second last out of the ancient era but my plan was sound.

1: Use the leader to create Sun Tzu
2: Prebuild tens of horsemen for the upgrade to ansar warrior.
3: Discover chivalry as quickly as possible
4: Once all units upgraded to ansar warriors declare was on the carthigans (to finally wipe them out)
5: Declare war on the spanish and the ottomans (once carthage was out of the way)

The most powerfull civs in my game are as follows

1: Arabs
2: Romans
3: French
4: Ottomans

I think I will definatley win this but my start was too slow so I don't think that I will be able to win _quickly_


I was second last to the

1.21f Open

1. Contacts.

Built a second scout immediately. Sent one scout S then W, the other N then E-ish (to stay out of the ridges). See map at 1990bc for routes taken.



I got royally confused by forgetting I needed Writing to tarde contacts! Lots of "how the **** does the Ai manage to get to every new civ the same turn I do" during the game until I realised what I'd forgotted.

Contacts made as follows:

Date Civilization Encountered
3550BC Persia
3500BC Zulus
3450BC Egypt
3150BC Ottomans
2900BC India
2670BC Spain
2550BC France
1870BC Carthage
1675BC Rome

2. Geography

As mentioned above, scout exploration direction was constrained by the ridges, which hid both Carthage and Ottomans for quite some time.

Because the map was so dry, workers are a premium. So far I've bought 10 in total:

2630BC 2 Indian workers, 10g for Masonry, The Wheel
2310BC Ottoman worker for Alphabet, Pottery
1990BC Spanish worker for Mysticism
1870BC 2 Carthaginian workers, 10g for The Wheel, Pottery, contact with France
1725BC 2 French workers for Iron Working, Horseback Riding, 16g
1425BC French worker for 100g
1325BC Zulu worker for 112g

Some of the civs seemed to really stagnate after I bought their workers. I'm sure it's hurting the Ai quite badly when I do this. Plus it's really getting my territory improved quickly.

The terrain also constrained my RCP plans, but I think I got a decent compromise.
The following shows our planned RCP city positions at 1500bc.
· Red is the RCP 3.0 ring
· Blue is the RCP 4.5 ring
· Purple is the RCP 8.0 ring
Solids indicate locations impossible due to terrain or existing city positions

Obviously not every open ring is a definite city site. And I still hadn't filled the last RCP3 site at 750bc, and now maybe I won't either. I guesstimated that I could support an average city population of 9 with the 3.0/4.5 ring, given the poor terrain (of 86 tiles, 30 are desert, 20 are mountain, 6 are hills). While not great, until the Industrial age it'll do. By then rail will allow the deserts to bloom.

3. Strategy
Solid core before expansion.
No ancient wars (wait for the Ansars)
Wide spread unit patrols to deter barbarians
No iron connection to get many warriors for patrols

4. End of period

I almost managed a perfect end to the ancient period. In 750bc I had a monopoly of the Republic, and 3 or 4 AIs had the last 3 mandatory techs I needed (Construction, Currency, Polytheism) but none had entered the Middle Ages. There was one barb hut waay down in the South, and I had a unit next to it.

I wanted to wait one turn, then attack the hut, kill it, then trade the techs so as to
(a) get into the Middle ages myself; and
(b) force an Ai too
That would force the uprisings when there were no huts near me.

Unfortunately the AIs traded and three got into the Middle Ages in my inter-turn at 775BC-750BC. So I'm forced to deal with one uprising.

5. Trade confusion

In 1250BC I had a significant tech advantage:
Persia is tech equal, 0g, 3 cities
Egypt is -4 tech (Lit, Map, Phil, Maths), 2g, 4 cities
India is -6 tech (Map, Maths, Phil, Code, Lit, Horse), 0g, 4 cities
France is -2 tech (Map, Code), 5g, 5 cities
Spain is -2 tech (Phil, Map), 0g, 3 cities
Ottoman is -2 tech (Code, Map), 0g, 3 cities
Rome is -4 tech (Code, Map, Math, Lit), 0g, 7 cities
Carthage is -8 tech (Iron, Myst, Math, Phil, Code, Lit, Map, Horse), 0g, 3 cities
Zulu is -3 tech (Phil, Lit, Map), 0g, 6 cities

By 1225BC - one turn - all but one civ was equal in techs. I was so shocked I thought it was a bug - they had virtually no gold, no trade routes, how did they do it.

Eventually I realised that Map Making had just been learned by Persia and that they must have traded THAT for other civs maps, which then enabled those civs to use their maps to trade other techs around. I've never seen the AI trade so wildly in a single phase before.

Entered the Middle Ages in 750BC, third in score but catching up on Rome and the Zulus. See you in Spoiler 2.

PTW 1.27f

After the amazing (to me!) diplo victory of GOTM21 and the humiliating Space Race loss of GOTM22, I decide to play conquest also this GTOM23.

I settled on spot and it was really a nice location. My city grew smoothly and did manage to build Pyramids!
Then I immediately switched to the Oracle, but then went for the Great Library.
I was almost sure to get it when, 4 turns left, France won the race... *£"£)/&$%""###

Just after, something like 30 barbarian horsemen rensacked several times a city of mine and I spent a lot of turns to get rid of them. They were later punished by my revenge: I destroyed 3 or 4 villages....

Just in the middle of the Ancient Age I was by far the leader in Tech race and this really amazed me. I was also second in total ranking. I decided for a turn to turn research off, because it seemed useless to me not to take advantage of tech trades, but then I turned research on again.
At the end of the Ancient ages I slowly rolled down in ranking and Tech race, but managed to keep the pace.

I guess that the reason for my initial leadership in Tech was my expansionistic trait, that made me have all the contacts before the others. My leadership finished when everyone knew each other.
Did you experience the same?

Ah! I was delighted by the flipping of a Carthago's city....

I did not enter any war. I was about to start one against Ottomans to put my hands on horses, but then realised that there was another source that was waiting for me.

Egypt and Rome are the leader.

Ciao,

burkina

This is one fascinating, superb, and highly enjoyable map !
I started out with building (I think) 3 more scouts, and sending them in all directions (basically SE, NW, SW and NE, in that order). I met almost all the civs by myself without having to trade for contacts, with the exception of India and the Romans.

The early contacts enabled me to trade for most techs (pottery alone was converted into masonry, bronze working and warrior code already because of monopoly trading !), and a successful max sci run on mysticism followed by a 40-turn run on polytheism brought in bunches of other techs too. Unfortunately, I didn't handle the money and the barbs too wisely - several hundred gold was spent on embassies with everyone, and at the dawn of the MA and the barb explosion, I had over a 1000 gold burning a hole in my pocket which I was then forced to spend on republic at monopoly prices, and then currency and construction, before the barbs ate it all.

My expansion was a bit sloppy; I turned Makkah into a 4-turn settler factory, but every so often would forget to turn up luxes or MM it at size-6. I may also have built too many workers early on, so I didn't grab quite as much land as I could have. I also didn't get the nearest horses (to the SE), but a bunch of swords are now being prepared to take them over from the Ottomans, after which I will unhook my iron and go for the mass Ansar upgrade and see what they can do !

(forgot to add: PTW 1.21, predator level - either all huts were removed here or I somehow managed to miss all of them, with the AIs getting them due to the extra start units. Deity-level amount of starting units didn't seem to help them meet each other quicker though)

1.29 beta 2

<OPEN>

I wasn't real happy w/ my early moves, usually I go for a tight inner core. This time, I founded some cities further away than I like inorder to grab resources and such. Mainly because the Ottomans beat me to the nearby horse resource, so I had to go south for the only one I knew about at the time.

My notes are at home, so I'll post more later. But, I did manage to build the Pyramids after missing the Great Library (neo Carthaginians) by a couple turns.

Two early wars enabled me to assimilate the Ottomans and neoCarthiginians, bringing the Oracle and Great Library under Arab control. The Great Library zipped me up to tech parity quickly.

More later.

Originally posted by jack merchant
.....after which I will unhook my iron and go for the mass Ansar upgrade and see what they can do !

Click to expand...

Why unhook the iron? Is there something I don't know here?

PTW 1.21f Open

Founded Makkah 1 tile east of the starting position mainly to have fewer mountains in my workable area. Made 2 more scouts, 1 warrior, then a granary. The food is a bit sparse, so I knew I would not have 10 cities or more at QSC deadline. But that did not matter much as I am going for Medal Play domination.

I followed minimum research path on Mysticism, Polytheism and then Monarchy. I did not finish any of them first, but on monarch difficulty, that was not a problem. Only popped 2 huts I think, 1st was Warrior Code, 2nd was conscript warrior. I had fisrt contact with most civcs, which kept me abreast in the tech race for most of the ancient era, although I was almost last ot go to medieval.

At 1000BC I had my core cities established, 7 or 8 I think. I didn't build another city the rest of the game. Persia demanded money once a little earlier, and I gave in. Immortals did not seem a fun opponent just yet, as I had only warriors. I did not have a source of horses yet, nor was my iron hooked up. While I had only a modest amount of cities, they were pretty well set up, as I had 3 or 4 temples, and a like number of barracks with more on the way. I simply started pumping out warriors. Around 800BC, Rome demanded a tech, and I refused. They declared war. I enlisted the Ottomans to be my proxy. Surprisongly, the Ottomans fared pretty well, only losing marginal land. I later found out why: Rome did not bother to hook up their iron supplies, and were fighting with archers. I continued pumping warriors...

Around 500BC I had over 40 warriors. I hooked up the iron and immediately upgraded 22 swordsman. I attacked the Ottomans the following turn (after cancelling alliance). The first city to fall gave me horses. I switched all production to horsemen. The 22 initial warriors were able to take a total of 5 Ottoman and Roman cities before attrition rendered them static. One of the cities was Sogut. I was only able to upgrade 1 or 2 more warriors a turn over the next several 100 years, but was able to contribute a horseman almost every turn.

I never stopped my advance, eliminating the Ottomans (OK, Rome actually made the killing blow), and continuing into Roman lands. As luck would have it, I got a great leader during a battle just outside of Rome's core. I decided to save him for a FP in Rome. Around 250AD I finally defeated Rome, and established my second core there. Technically by this time I was in the medieval era, but I did not have any medieval techs yet (very close). This is the perfect place to stop, finish in next spoiler.

Overall this is a sinister map. This would be tough on Emporer or above. Food is scare, and the terrain unforgiving, and smack dab in the middle of everything.

The situation:

1. I own all of Ottoman and Roman lands, plus my initial core.
2. There have been many wars involving France, Spain, Zulu and Egypt, some still ongoing.
3. Carthage has encroached very close to my left and below my main core.
4. Egypt has built a line of cities all the way from Thebes along the lower coast all the to Roman lands.
5. Persia has been growth ******** (Cracker induced?), and is mainly in their initial core.
6. India has filled in their entire corner of the map and is encroaching on Persia.

My immediate plans:

1. Continue pumping out horsemen for upgrade to Ansar Warriors.
2. Consolidate my already made horsmen in a city near the edge of old Ottoman territory for mass upgrade.
3. After Ansar Warriors are available, I will forge a two pronged attack. Prong one will be from Roman / Ottoman lands, and will concentrate on the over developed Egyptian cites. Prong two will focus on the encroaching Carthaginians. Hopefully they will meet up at the border to Zulu lands, and then sweep across the rest of the continent in a clockwise manner.
4. I am planning on ignoring Persia because they are too small to be a problem, and India because the are too out of the way and non-agressive. Hopefully they do not have other plans.

See next spoiler to see if my plans pan out.

Hergrom

Seriously i would say unhook iron doesn't really matter as if the iron can retain longer if u unhook...

it really doesnt matter......

i'll post my notes up soon as i just back from work... tired... >.<

Originally posted by Dojoboy
Why unhook the iron? Is there something I don't know here?

Click to expand...

If you unhook your iron supply, you can go back to producing warriors instead of swordsman. You can then hook up your iron again and do a mass upgrade. Repeat as needed. This is based upon the fact that money can be produced faster than shields. Same principle applies to horsemen / Ansar Warrior.

Hergrom

Why not just have your desired warrior factory unhook by road?
I don't think you would keep producing warrior in every city.
And warrior only useful in the early stages and swordsman only worth using before AD.

And i wouldn't recommend swordsman rushing or even warrior rushing as late as 500 AD. From the speed of my game and my brother( we play separetely), by 500AD both of us has gotten Ansar and both enter golden age with mass amount of Ansar and musketman.

sleepy.... -__-

Originally posted by Hergrom

Around 500AD I had over 40 warriors. I hooked up the iron and immediately upgraded 22 swordsman.

Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I've failed to adopt this strategy, until now.

Originally posted by Hergrom
I never stopped my advance, eliminating the Ottomans (OK, Rome actually made the killing blow), and continuing into Roman lands. As luck would have it, I got a great leader during a battle just outside of Rome's core. I decided to save him for a FP in Rome. Around 250AD I finally defeated Rome, and established my second core there. Technically by this time I was in the medieval era, but I did not have any medieval techs yet (very close). This is the perfect place to stop, finish in next spoiler.

Click to expand...

Good job finishing off the Ottomans and Rome. I managed to take out the Ottomans and Cathaginians, but Rome remains a threat to my east.

Madscot,

Beautiful exploration map, that really tells a great story about your opening plays and makes it easy to follow how you took advantage of the map features.

Great screen shot of the city placement planning as well. The minimap and the city vicinity map give us a great snapshot of the early progress of your game.


---------------------------

Dojoboy,

Glad you found the keys to the executive workout room. Hope you enjoy the game and get alot of of playing here.

Cracker al bin Sahim

-----------------------------------

Hergrom.

No special handicaps for Persia other than the ones they come with normally. In fact Persia should be a bit speeded up initially if it weren't for the uninspired AI decison making because they got a scout to start with and did not have to wait until the middle ages to come alive. Rough terrain has a deeper impact on uninspired monolithic play sequences and Persia may end up being an example of this in many cases. With the industrious trait, persia should have been able to deal with the jungle cluster but if you bought off Jerkses workers then that would have a crippling effect.

ptw open 1.21

So last month I had a good start, but being in tech support killed my free time (blaster) so I didn't finish. Hopefully this month I will.

I started off by moving my scout south and the worker se. I thought about moving the settler, but decided to settle in place. I built three more scouts in my capital to explore. I didn't go to war in the ancient ages this game.

Goody Huts
=========
I got several goody huts, with the first giving me a settler. This settler later built Damascus. I also got IW from a hut which helped with trading.

Disease
==========
I only had it occur once, but it was very badly timed. Disease struck my second city as I was 2 turns from a settler. I switched it to a granary at that point.

Research
===========
I did full research on mysticism, polytheism, and monarchy.
mysticism: 2950 BC
polytheism: 1870 BC
monarchy: 1200 BC

After finishing monarchy, i researched currency at as high a pace as I could maintain. I traded polytheism + currency to the ottomans for construction. These were all monopoly techs at the time.

I traded for most of the other techs, which was really easy to do since I had several contacts. I also traded for any workers I could without having to pay gpt.

City locations
============
I built two rings around my capital the first with six cities at distance 4/4.5
The next with lots at distance 9/9.5

Here is my empire at 875BC when I entered the middle ages. Red spots are places to fill in, and there are a couple locations in Carthage also that I need to obtain


Barbs
==============
The barbs were annoying, but they didn't cause me any real damage beyond a few units.

Exploration
============
here is my minimap at 1500 showing approximately what my scouts did:


edit: I had E & W confused, and added minimap showing exploration

this is my very first game of the month... i think i'm doing alright... although i really haven't been keeping track of any kind of timeline and i haven't been taking screenshots. live and learn right?

The basis... i'm playing conquest, and i'm going for the domination. I decided to build as many horsemen as possible... and save up cash to upgrade them all to ansars. I totally forgot about the raging barbarians... there were 10 huts or so surrounding my perimeter. OUCH. I didn't want to lose my 800 gp saved up... nor did i want to spend it on techs at monopoly prices. (50 gp/turn for republic my left foot). So i felt forced to build defenders in all cities the barbarians could attack. A lot of wasted production there. But I think it was worth it.. I lost no money... and infact almost completely detoured the 50-100 barbarian horsemen from attacking my cities. They moved on to mor fertile... and AI controlled pastures =].

I waited for Answars to launch any assault. Then I stormed Egypt.... then Zululand. I'm maintaining friendship with Ottomans so I don't have to deal with Rome for awhile. I had no problem hooking up horses in the beginning... I felt that since horses were central to my strategy, that i could justify researching the Wheel first. and i built around 2 additional scouts in my capital to find all nearby sources of horses. I was unable to make a settler factory out of my capital... but i felt that a granary was a must because of the low food production in all surrounding cities. I pondered getting pyramids... but decided that another 10+ horsemen was a better use of my production capacity. (and low risk).

I've been monitoring persia... They do seem to have some sort of retardation going on. They are right next to some Iron... and have a very deadly UU. I was considering taking them out first... but they never bothered to hook up their iron...

India is doing far worse.... I think Ghandi is taking this anti-war sentiment a little too far. In the middle ages, they still have 3 or 4 cities.

reading through these posts... i already learned something...
unhooking iron to build horsemen... then uprgrade them to Ansars. duh. why did i not think of that!!!! Well they're certainly gonna pay now

time to go continue the onslaught

conquest

I settled in place & used treasure to start granary as there is not a lot of food. Start researching alphabet at min.

3800 contact persia scout trade: CB&63g for BW
3550 contact carthage traceot, BW, 8g and 1gpt for alphabet
trade persia Pot & 7g for Masonry & have tech parity
3450 contact spain: sell Pot for 10g
3400 contact egypt: sell Pot for 10g
3050 contact zulu trade: alph for WC & Myst & begin research
writing at min
Sell Mysticism to Persia 80g, egypt 22g, carthage 14g, and
spain 14g
2950 Zulu has status of most advanced nation, but have parity.
2850 Persia declares war on us Repelled their warrior with
a spearman, however I don't know where their cities
are
2800 Settle Madinah to S by lake & river
2350 Buy wheel from egypt for 76g - still don't know where
Persia is and at the end of this turn they offer peace
treaty, but I notice they know IW, so traded: PT+IW for
PT+Wheel+48g
2310 Sell IW to egypt 148g, Carthage 27g, and Zulu 9g
2070 1st elite unit fighting pictish, but they soon die
Pliney published Largest Nations of the World and we
aren't even mentioned
1790 My scout discovers India. Trade IW & 15 gold to get
writing (10 turns from researchimg) Then sell India wheel
for 25g. I don't trade Contact with India yet
Begin researching Lit at 100% at a loss of 4gpt
Begin Pyramid prebuild to switch to GL
1750 Spain wants to trade HR for Writing, but decline
Contact with France, trade contact with egypt, zulu, and
persia to get HR and 2g
1475 Contact Ottomans. They have the closest horses
Trade them wheel for contact with Rome (9th civ)
1400 Learn Lit. Change to GL in 26
1300 1 g to all civs for goodwill, notice writing is known by some
Sell contact with India to Persia, egypt, france, carthage,
Ottomans, and Rome. Sell Spain Math.
1050 France starts to build GL - noone knew lit the turn before
when I checked, and they had already sold it around so I
missed out on selling that tech
775 BC I start building units for barbarian rush, unfortunately,
most everyone will probably enter MA close together.
Trade for WM to look for huts
750 I built the GL!!!!:jump:
Unfortunately, I forgot to record when I went into MA, I just know it happened somewhere between 750 bc and 390 bc. My plan for MA is war with Ottomans to get horses.

Originally posted by mordekai

I've been monitoring persia... They do seem to have some sort of retardation going on. They are right next to some Iron... and have a very deadly UU. I was considering taking them out first... but they never bothered to hook up their iron...

India is doing far worse.... I think Ghandi is taking this anti-war sentiment a little too far. In the middle ages, they still have 3 or 4 cities.

Click to expand...

Same is happening in my game, although India hs rebounded a bit.

Originally posted by cracker

Dojoboy,

Glad you found the keys to the executive workout room. Hope you enjoy the game and get alot of of playing here.

Cracker al bin Sahim

Click to expand...

Sorry to have disappeared on you Cracker, I ended up testing some things for Virtual Programming this summer. Funny, now that school has started, I seem to have more time.

my minimap at end of AA with scout lines

This is my first GOTM that Im planning on submitting. Ive played Vikings(lost), Med(won - but did it last month )

I dont keep nearly as many notes as most of you do, but here is my early game in a nutshell

Founded settler on the spot - Wonder factory with all the mountains.

Moved scout N, built another one moved him S

Next city - settler factory landed on the floodplains to the S

Moved S far enough to get horses before Ottomans

Got GL which caught me up on all techs

Established cities far enough S to hit the ocean in an ellipse ring

Tied up the N by attacking the Persians to get to their capital city.

I dont seem to utilize any of the 'standard' city layouts that most of you seem to, but followed the mountain ranges and essentially made my cities a roadblock for E to W travel.

Making friends now while filling in all the city gaps, once I get more farther into middle ages, Ill finish off persia and prob go for Spain or India/Ottomans next.