SirPleb deity, with Palace rank exploit

In this game I am trying to use the Palace/rank bug to get as high a score as I can. This bug can be exploited by placing very few cities near one's Palace. This results in a large area centered on the Forbidden Palace which has low corruption. (For a detailed description of this exploit click here.)

Pregame Planning

I planned to start with a "settler flood" while setting up to jump my Palace to a distant location. This should be a powerful combination. A settler flood will not be affected much by corruption - towns can produce workers and settlers as fast as they grow even when largely corrupt. A long distance Palace jump will be easier to accomplish while doing a settler flood - all towns in the initial region will have low population.

After getting a few towns going I planned to send an early settler to find a new Palace location. This settler would move primarily north, south, east, or west to maximize the rank distance (1.5 per step vs. 1 per step if moving diagonally.) He'd travel until he finds a useable location on a distant coast. (Coastal so that a harbor can be built to ensure trade connections with the capital.) Some time later a group of workers would follow and join the new Palace town before doing the jump.

Later in the game I'll try to move the Palace again, to a remote island, using a leader.

I chose to play as the Ottomans because of the Industrious trait (always a good thing ) and their Sipahi. I think that Sipahi will be a well timed unit for the conquest phase of the game. By the time they are available I expect to be able to pump them out in large quantities. They are a very powerful unit for a brief time - if I can overwhelm the other Civs before Replaceable Parts is learned then Sipahi will be all I'll need.

I chose the no barbarians setting. This means no chance of an early settler from a hut and also means a slower overall tech pace. But it will allow me to do the settler flood unhindered by barbarians.

The wonder I most want is Pyramids. I planned to target the Civ who builds them as my first victim if at all possible.

My research targets would be Pottery, Republic, Military Tradition, Steam Power, and Replaceable Parts. I won't worry about other specific techs, those five are the ones which will be important milestones.

Start Position

Settings: Huge, Pangaea, 60% water, Ottomans, Deity, No barbarians, Wet, Warm, 5B years, 8 rivals.

I generated maps for a couple of hours looking for a nice start. Eventually I got this:



and after playing the opening moves it looked like this in 2900BC:



The pair of cattle could be used for one four-turn settler factory, the pair of wheat for another, and the pair of game to the southeast could be used for a two-turn worker factory.

This map looked like a good one to carry on with

The Settler Flood

For a long time I did nothing but pump settlers. The first three towns built granaries. One became a worker pump, the other two settler pumps. All new towns produced settlers as quickly as they could.

Over-production was used to produce warriors. E.g. if a new town produced 2 shields/turn at size 1 and would still produce 2 shields at size two then it would run a production cycle of warrior, settler, warrior, settler, etc.

The only exceptions I made from dedicating all resources to a simple settler flood were:
o A few early warriors were sent out as explorers.
o The 6th settler produced was sent on the long journey to find a new location for the Palace.
o Three settlers were sent out to claim distant luxuries discovered by my explorers.
o One town was dedicated to building Forbidden Palace from 1500BC onward.

After I traded for maps, in 1275BC, here's how my world looked:



The arrow points to my capital. This was a great map for a settler flood - I'd been given the most isolated position! The trick now would be to fill all that nice space before my rivals reached it.

At 1000BC I had 24 towns, 7 settlers in transit, 24 warriors, 14 native workers, 12 foreign workers, and 3 granaries.

To assist my efforts to fill the southeastern region before rivals arrived I fomented some wars in 775BC (described later) and also used my warriors to "reserve" some land until settlers could arrive. Here's a picture of my warriors hoping to stave off intruders in the area west of my capital until more settlers can arrive to fill it:



I slowed down the settler flood after jumping the Palace (described below) in 210BC. I continued it at a decreasing pace until about 10BC. At that date I had 105 towns, had filled most of the start region, and was ready to enter a new phase of the game - the builder phase described later in this note.

Fomenting War

During the settler flood I watched for a chance to stir up wars among my rivals. I couldn't do it in the Map Making trade turn - a few Civs traded Map Making immediately and I didn't have much leverage in that trading session. But in 775BC I was first to learn Polytheism and saw my chance. As well as trading for all known techs I'd be able to buy some alliances.

I declared war on my two most distant rivals, Persia and Celts



I then allied each other Civ against either Persia or Celts. I chose the alliances so that neighboring friendly Civs would not be allied against the same Civ:



Although many of my alliances would not result in direct conflict with Persia or Celts there were two other reasons for making these alliances:
1) The six friendly Civs would now be unlikely to go to war with me, even if my enemies offered them alliances.
2) My enemies might buy alliances with some of the friendly Civs against each other. With luck there'd be ongoing warfare for a fair while.

The plan worked. No one else went to war with me. Persia and Celts purchased a few alliances which started additional wars. Most of these were inconsequential (not between neighbors) but one was quite nice - in 710BC Persia convinced England to go to war with Babylon:



Most of the wars were over in about 20 turns but some dragged on. The last fallout from my machinations ended when Arabia and Celts signed peace in 340AD

continued in next post...

The Palace Jump

A settler produced in 1910BC went on a long walk northward, eventually reaching the far coast and squeezing in between two Zulu towns to claim a coastal location in 710BC:



A while after the settler began his long trek I started sending workers to follow. These workers built a road as they travelled. Eventually there were 12 workers in this group. A large group of workers can build a road while travelling without slowing down, by playing "leapfrog" - each turn the part of the group which is in the lead builds a road on their current tile, then the workers who are behind use the new road to advance two steps.

In 210BC everything was ready. A Forbidden Palace had been constructed in the core region, the new Palace town had built a Library and expanded its borders, its surrounding tiles were irrigated, workers had joined it to raise its size to 12, and all other towns in central areas had a population of no more than 3. I abandoned the original Palace and the Palace moved to the north coast.

The jump was a great success. I had 74 towns at the time. Before the Palace jump my gross income was 508gpt and corruption was wasting 279gpt. After jumping gross income was 530gpt (increased due to the new citizens in the Palace city) and corruption wasted just 90gpt.

I had just one town closer than distance 24 from the new Palace. This was a town at distance 16 which I'd settled to claim incense. The settler flood continued for a little longer, filling in towns at distance 24 or less from the Forbidden Palace.

In the picture below, from 10BC, the green circle is centered on the Forbidden Palace. Any city I place inside that circle will have corruption rank 3 or less and will experience 30% or less corruption, depending on the distance from the center. The red circle in the picture is centered on the Palace. It contains the region where I should avoid placing cities - any city I add there will cause an increase in corruption in the green zone:



The Builder Phase

After jumping the Palace and settling all the land I could within distance 24 from the Forbidden Palace I entered a building phase.

Most inland towns built Barracks and then produced Horsemen. Some also built Aqueducts and Marketplaces and some continued to pump workers and a few settlers. Coastal towns built Libraries, Harbors, Aqueducts, Marketplaces, Universities.

I'd been a Republic since 530BC. With the distant Palace and the resulting low corruption, the builder phase made quick progress.

I researched aggressively on the upper Middle Ages tech path, counting on the AIs to prioritize Invention and Gunpowder. I traded for those and for gold, then researched the bottom path toward Military Tradition. I avoided learning Chivalry and didn't connect Saltpeter - just kept producing Horsemen.

Near the end of this phase I also built a number of Galleys to support my plans for the next phase.

In 280AD I learned Military Tradition and was ready to begin a new phase.

Taking The Pyramids

My first conquest priority was to capture the Pyramids if at all possible. The Pyramids can provide a great boost to a high score game because they increase the population growth rate.

Persia had built the Pyramids in 1700BC in her capital. In 150AD I had some wonderful news - Persia had also constructed Leonardo's in her capital. Capturing Leonardo's had been my second priority since it would allow me to produce Sipahi at a much lower cost. Now I'd be able to take both Pyramids and Leonardo's in a single strike!

There was one major problem in capturing Persepolis: my culture was pathetic. A fraction of any other Civ's culture. And Persia was geographically a poor target. Taking over Persia entirely would be awkward. I'd rather expand by land.

I decided to solve this problem by jumping the Palace again, to Persepolis after capturing it. Once my Palace was in Persepolis it would not culture flip and I would not need to wipe Persia out entirely. This move would also increase the size of my productive region around the Forbidden Palace (Persepolis was farther from it than the current Palace) and it would allow me to subsequently expand north and northeast from the home region without putting towns too close to my Palace. To accomplish this I'd need to send a large force of Sipahi - large enough to have good odds of producing a leader fairly quickly.

In 300AD a fleet of 17 Caravels sailed from my western coast, carrying 2 Settlers, 26 Sipahi, and 23 Horsemen. The fleet would sail to Persia along the path below, establish a beachhead, and then attack. It would capture Persepolis (highlighted below) but would raze any other conquered cities.



While the fleet sailed I continued to build up at home, stockpiling Horsemen. (I'd disconnected saltpeter after upgrading for the initial group of Sipahi.)

In 410AD I declared war, landed the fleet, and took a couple of Persian towns which she'd settled near my homeland. This triggered a Golden Age and production shot upward. At the start of the Golden Age my empire's gross income was 2271gpt and just 396gpt of that was being lost to corruption.

I immediately founded my beachhead town, rushed Barracks in it on the same turn, and rushed Harbor the next turn. I captured Persepolis immediately but did not attempt to hold it. I left it undefended for Persia to recapture while my Sipahi rampaged through other Persian towns, razing them and hoping for promotions. I captured Persepolis again each turn after Persia reclaimed it. As soon as I had the harbor built I upgraded the Horsemen who'd made the journey and they joined the attacks on Persia.

By 480AD I'd had 8 upgrades to elite, had already lost 2 of my elites, and a leader appeared. The leader rushed a Palace in Persepolis in 490AD, and I prayed that Persepolis would not culture flip back to Persia on this particular turn!

In 500AD the Palace jumped and my invasion was over. I gave Persia peace to eliminate my people's growing war weariness, and began plans for the next phase of land based attacks nearer the home region.

The surviving elites and many captured workers boarded the fleet to return home. The other surviving Sipahi in Persia formed as large a circle around Persepolis as their numbers could afford, to block other Civs from resettling all of the lands I'd cleared:



The new Palace location made almost no difference to corruption at this time. But it did set things up nicely for conquest and further expansion. I had just one town closer than distance 31 from the new Palace - the invasion beachhead town with its important Harbor. So the potentially productive region around the Forbidden Palace had grown from distance 24 to 31, and I could now invade a number of rivals by land without resulting in any new towns too near the Palace. Any city inside the green circle below will be productive, and I must avoid placing new cities inside the red circle around the new Palace:



During the Golden Age I've been producing a lot of Horsemen as well as building up more infrastructure. Each turn, I connect saltpeter, upgrade all Horsemen to Sipahi, and then disconnect saltpeter so that production of Horsemen can continue. At 500AD I have 154 Sipahi. About 30 of these remain in Persia, most of the rest are at the borders of the home region. Production of new units is rapidly approaching 20 Sipahi per turn. It is time to enter a new phase of the game!

To be continued...

I'm well into the next phase of the game as I write this, but not at a logical cutoff point to post a writeup. I'll write again either when I finish the conquest phase or when the entire game is complete. I hope you enjoyed reading about the game so far

Sounds like a great game. Perfect start position for this, but only you could execute everything so well. I don't have time right now but want to try one like this.

I've been waiting to see how you'd go on this one!

No score update so far?

What a shame Perseopolis wasn't a coastal city. New Toncelli must be stuffing up your potential somewhat. I guess multiple ROP's are out of the question, what with war in the air an' all, and Airports are still a science-fiction.

Looking forward to an update.

Great write-up SirPleb!
Very informative.

It looks like the palace rank exploit is even more powerful than I thought! I'm already looking forward to the next update and see what you've done with all those Sipahi (IIRC you said you had 300 of them at one point in your game , in another thread)...

Great game SirPleb! Love your style! Can't wait to try this style on my next game.

Based on past experience, the chances are you know EXACTLY what you´re talking about!

Thanks for your detailed post.

It´s a bit too much for me too digest........so I´ll put it off till I see your score......that's always a great motivator.

Is it possible that this bug/exploit will be banned from HOF? I don't understand it well enough to think sensibly about it!


Anyway, detailed posts like that make you realize there´s STILL more to Civ3 yet to be discovered!

you always make it look so easy!! Great Job!
i'll be impatiently waiting for the rest of this post.

Is it possible that this bug/exploit will be banned from HOF? I don't understand it well enough to think sensibly about it!

Click to expand...

i think that they worked this out in the upcoming expansion.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the encouragement!

Originally posted by Tacit_Exit
No score update so far? ... New Toncelli must be stuffing up your potential somewhat. I guess multiple ROP's are out of the question

Click to expand...

Oops, I should've included that. Here are some score datapoints in the game so far, including a sneak peek into the conquest phase:
New Toncelli hurts a bit but not a lot. Each city close to the capital costs just a few percent added corruption in the main region - a pity but not really a lot as long as I keep the number of such cities low. ROPs were indeed out of the question at that stage, soon everyone would become a target

Originally posted by EMan
Is it possible that this bug/exploit will be banned from HOF?

Click to expand...

Aeson said he'd allow it. But if he changes his mind and finds a place to draw the line on this exploit (and if any line is drawn my game will be past it ) that's ok with me. In any case I expect the day will come where old games must be deleted or archived as the game changes and new attempts can't compete evenly with old ones. That previously happened with Aeson's 66K game. I don't think even the Palace rank exploit will allow us to reach that score level again with the game as it stands now.

Sir Pleb, you put a capital X in eXploit!

Hats off to you!

There is no easy cutoff point where building the FP moves from 'as intended' to 'exploit'. The only solutions to the problem that I can see are disallowing the FP altogether, or coming up with a max number of cities which can share (or be built up to) each OCN number. The rule about sharing OCN would be almost impossible to formulate, play with, and check. Given that all the previous HOF games have allowed the building of the FP (all taking advantage of this exploit to some extent or another, plus gaining all the intended advantages of the FP), the only fair and feasible method of dealing with this is to allow it to any extent.

My game used a couple 'exploits' that have since been taken out or toned down as well... scout resource denial, demanding cities. A game like this is the best way to exemplify the impact such loopholes can have. It will be interesting to see what percent of max turn score you can squeeze out like this SirPleb! Looking very nice so far.

Even if it's an exploit, I don't think anyone else can execute it as smoothly as SirPleb. Believe me...I have tried and failed twice already in two of my Chieftain games. It isn't that easy to implement this procedure and SirPleb making it look so easy at the Deity level.

Here's the next installment

Beginning Conquest

While attacking Persia to gain control of the Pyramids, and to move the Palace, I made plans for the conquest phase.

The main question was raze and replace, or capture? Razing and replacing would slow my expansion. I preferred to keep all cities growing and producing. Capturing would result in a lot of culture flips. Although I'd started hurrying libraries and universities my culture was rather weak. Here's where it stood at 410AD when I attacked Persia and entered my Golden Age:



I decided to nonetheless capture instead of razing. While attacking each rival I'd leave resistors alone - I'd capture each city and then move out immediately. Some Sipahi would stay behind the advancing warfront, positioned to retake cities which flipped back. After wiping a Civ out entirely I'd move a wave of Sipahi back through the conquered cities to quell resistors.

Later in the game I'd probably abandon many of the captured cities, replacing them with new settlements better positioned for milking. But in the meantime, during the conquest phase, the captured rival cities would increase score and would stop rivals from sending settlers out. (Wandering settlers are a nuisance I wanted to avoid because they make it hard to wipe a Civ out quickly.)

I decided to begin by attacking England and then Babylon:



I began the attack on England in 490AD. This war took a while, partly because I didn't have a huge number of Sipahi yet and partly because of the travel time from my core to the battle front. In 550AD I was up to 237 Sipahi and producing over 20 new ones per turn. In 590AD I finished off England and begin on Babylon, without pausing to quell English resistors. In 600AD I passed the 300 Sipahi mark - had 310 of them at that date. The wide border between England and Babylon allowed a very fast attack on Babylon - I finished her off in 610AD. The furious onslaught was expensive, I was down to a mere 279 Sipahi when it was over The Sipahi quickly moved back through Babylon and England, quelling resistors as they returned.

I'd kept research going during the Golden Age and in 500AD entered the Industrial Age just behind my rivals. I got Steam Power but would need four turns to connect coal - I had two sources but neither was connected and I had no workers near either of them. After getting Steam Power I stopped researching for a while - I wanted all available funds for Sipahi, happiness, and some rush builds. I had the luxury rate as high as 40% during the wars but my empire's income was so high that this still left enough funds to upgrade 25 to 30 Horsemen per turn.

By the end of the war on Babylon my workers had finished building a railroad backbone. From that date onward I dedicated the majority of my workers to supporting subsequent wars. The combination of railroads and Sipahi can be deadly - as the Sipahi capture each city workers can railroad up to it on the same turn, paving the way for more Sipahi to continue the attack deeper into enemy territory.

My next targets would be France and then Zulu:



I began the attack on France in 640AD and in three turns took all of her cities except the isolated northern one. I rushed a Galleon in a coastal town and sent some troops by land through the jungle. But I didn't send enough at first and it wasn't until 710AD that I finally wiped France out. In the meantime my main force attacked the Zulu in 670AD and wiped them out in 690AD. My Golden Age had ended but it no longer mattered - I'd built up enough infrastructure during the Golden Age that production could continue unabated. I produced 20 to 25 Sipahi each turn and lost just a bit less than that on average, so my total army size climbed slowly, reaching a size of 343 Sipahi at 710AD.

continued in next post...

Finishing Conquest, With Another Palace Move

My next target would be Germany and then the Celts. The world looked like this in 710AD:



I'd be facing another problem now. I wanted to avoid owning cities inside the circle on the above map - cities in that region would be too close to my Palace in Persepolis, increasing corruption in my empire.

I'd been thinking about this stage for a while. I'd hoped to do a final Palace move to a remote island somewhere. But during the wars on France and Zulu, as my rivals explored the oceans and I traded for their maps, it became clear that there was no such island in this world. An alternate plan would be necessary. I did not want to leave the Palace where it was, that would waste too much prime real estate.

I decided to make the final Palace move to the northern tip of the ex-Zulu territory. I'd abandon most of my holdings there. Three large cities in that area could claim a fair bit of the good land without having a major impact on corruption elsewhere. The Palace would go in the blue circle in the map below. I also decided I'd keep the Celts as the rival Civ which would stay in the game. I'd build a town in the mountains in the red circle below, surround it, and give it to the Celts before attacking:



While attacking Germany and Celts I'd prepare for the final Palace move, purchasing settlers from the towns to be abandoned and founding towns to match the new plan.

Germany fell very quickly. I attacked in 720AD and finished her off in 730AD. I attacked the Celts in 770AD and finished them off in 780AD. During this phase I reached the domination limit.

I also rushed the new Palace in 770AD, completing it in 780AD. Now my world looked like this:



The red circle represents distance 35 from my fourth and final Palace. The green circle is at distance 35 from the Forbidden Palace. (I decided to go a bit larger again from the distance 31 ring I used with Persepolis ) The blue circles mark my cities which are closer than 35 to the Palace. These six cities will slightly increase corruption in the main region but seem worthwhile for the good lands they claim. Cities at exactly distance 35 from the Palace or FP are quite useable - they're about 50% corrupt before having a Courthouse. I won't put much effort into cities further than 35, corruption increases rapidly outside the circles.

Around this time I stopped producing Sipahi and began research again. I wanted Replaceable Parts soon so that my workers would speed up - there was a lot for them to do!

Finishing conquest was easy. I attacked Arabia in 790AD and finished her off in 810AD except for a wandering settler somewhere. I attacked Persia in 840AD and wiped her out in one turn except for another wandering settler. I finally finished them both off some time later, but conquest was essentially complete at this date. I razed the majority of both of these Civs to get more workers. At 840AD my world looked like this:



At this date I had:
200 native workers
300 to 400 (guessing, I didn't count) foreign workers
271 Sipahi
And my score was 9049.

During the wars my Sipahi produced a fair number of leaders. One rushed Smith's. Two handled the Palace moves. I saved one near the end for future use (Theory Of Evolution probably.) I didn't have any particular use for the rest. I used a few to rush Universities; converted the rest to empty armies which I could disband later on for shields. I didn't work at generating leaders, instead I always attacked the toughest defenders with elites first

I made one blunder with the leaders - I rushed Smith's in my Forbidden Palace city. I'd intended to build no wonders there so that later in the game I could rebuild the FP at a better centered location, to maximize the uncorrupt region. In the heat of battle I forgot. Since I've built Smith's in the FP city I won't be moving it after all, the gain I could get by fine tuning its location doesn't seem worth losing Smith's.

To be concluded...

The milking phase is now in progress

Very impressive SirPleb! I'd be lucky to pull something like this off on regent/monarch level and you're doing it on deity!

PS: Any indication if you'll be getting the No 1 spot in the HoF back, or is it still to early to tell...

Very impressive indeed! Just curious, what is the domination limit on this game?

PS: Last weekend, I just started another Deity game with the same settings as yours. Since there was absolutely no food bonus at the starting location and only 1 single cow near by which I used for my second city, my score was less than 1/2 in comparing to yours at 1000BC and 10AD. Why on earth would I start a game without any food bonus? The answer to that is somewhere in my first sentence in this post.

Originally posted by Darkness
Any indication if you'll be getting the No 1 spot in the HoF back, or is it still to early to tell...

Click to expand...

I'll definitely be getting more than my current HOF game. I expect to be a bit over 50K but it is too early to be more exact yet.

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Just curious, what is the domination limit on this game?

Click to expand...

My domination limit is 3717. I started before the discussion about that, didn't check with Mapstat before playing. A map with say 3900 or so sure would be nice Throw in lots of wheat on flood plains and the cows would be very very happy

Here's the conclusion:

The Greening of the World

After taking control of the world in 840AD I began a massive reorganization. I worked on four activities in parallel:
1) Reorganized my holdings to maximize the amount of food available. I bought many settlers in cities I'd be replacing, to move citizens to new locations.
2) Hurried a lot of infrastructure (aqueducts, harbors, marketplaces, hospitals.) I disbanded most of my Sipahi to help with some of these projects.
3) Many hundreds of workers scurried about improving the land. They worked quickly since we're industrious and we've just learned Replaceable Parts.
4) Researched toward Ecology. I wanted Mass Transit ASAP!

At the start of this phase my gross income from cities was about 9000gpt and my net income, with both sliders at zero, was a bit over 4000gpt. That was enough to maintain four turn research and to have more than 2000gpt left over. Over time my income grew to more than offset rising research costs. At first much income went to buying settlers and workers. Later most was used to rush improvements.

I remained a Republic for the remainder of the game. I didn't think the gain from switching to Democracy would offset the anarchy period when worker efficiency would be down, research and income zero, and some population lost.

My workers finished most land improvements by 960AD. The work force peaked at 382 native workers at this date (plus hundreds of foreign workers) - after this I began joining them to towns for quick growth. Some workers continued reorganizing, replacing mines in the productive region with irrigation as those cities finished building improvements.

I finished most of the city reorganization in 1040AD. Quite a bit had changed. Here's the world map at 840AD after finishing conquest:



And here it is twenty turns later at 1040AD:



After that date the only noteworthy adjustment I made was in 1315AD when I settled two new cities beside the Palace. This increased corruption throughout the entire ring-35 Forbidden Palace region, costing 200gpt additional corruption at that date. I settled those cities because the Palace city would eventually expand its borders (when culture unavoidably grew past 100), and that would result in wasting a number of tiles which no citizen could happily work. The two cities I added put those tiles to good use.

In 1265AD I learned Ecology and could start building Mass Transits. Pollution had started to become a real nuisance around this time.

At 1265AD, with both sliders at zero, net income was a whopping 8292gpt. I stopped research and used all funds to hurry improvements. And at 1330AD all the necessary ones had been built!

I learned Communism, to build Police Stations, in 1340AD.

And that was about it, there was little left to be done after that.
Since there was nothing more important to do I decided I might as well become stinking rich (or is that fabulously wealthy?) I sold all libraries and universities - culture was just a hindrance at this time, might as well save the maintenance cost. I kept many non-corrupt cities busy constructing money making improvements (Courthouses, Police Stations, Banks, Stock Exchanges.) They built things slowly because I'd irrigated all possible tiles, but there was lots of time available When I stopped building any more improvements in 1950AD net income had risen to a bit over 12000gpt.

Finally in 2049AD, with the treasury at over 3 million gold, a settler founded a town to trigger a Domination victory in 2050AD.

Final score: 52842

Here's the financial state of the empire in 2050AD:

Very Impressive especially the income. I am in awe of your achievements.

wow! congratulations for the score and the gold!