CTR 7 -- Carthago delenda est

[gollum]They won't join your game, they hatess us[/gollum]
[smeagol]No...no, they will join my precioussss...they love uss[/smeagol]
[gollum]Wes bet you four Hobbites that we won't get thiss one sstarted either[/gollum]
[smeagol]Bring it on![/smeagol]

CTR 7 -- Carthago delenda est
Level: Deity
Civ: Rome
Map: Standard
Geography: Continents, other random
Opponents: Carthage, random others
Victory conditions: Conquest Only
Restart, Culturally-linked Off

Variant: We hate the Carthaginians! Every Senator proclaims Carthago delenda est! even when discussing the grain for the harvest. The only problem is this:
We can't touch them until they're the last Civ on the board.
Once they're the last Civ, we must immediately declare war and stay in war until Carthago delenda est.
We can not trade with them, or ally with them. We can set up an Embassy, though, so that we can do other nasty stuff to them (we are allowed to spy, steal techs, etc.)
We can't inspire other Civs to fight them, if they declare war on us. We can, however, get into an MPP with other Civs; if we end up fighting Carthage as a result, we can only fight a defensive war.
If they declare war on us before it is their turn (even if it's our fault, such as spying or stealing techs), we can only fight a defensive war.
If another Civ wipes them out (extremely doubtful due to the NuMe early), that Civ replaces Carthago in our pledge.
Carthage (or the capital, if another Civ takes out Carthage--the city, or the civ) must be our last conquest.
Carthage will be Militaristic, either in addition to their current traits, or instead of Commercial.

The goal of this game is to force an endgame with an opponent we haven't been able to cripple early, or at all. I suspect by the time it is their turn to fall, they'll be as powerful, if not moreso, than us.

Players are welcome to suggest other additions to the variant
The standard 24/48 and 10 turn rule applies, except in the modern age, when it will go to 5 turns. I defer to LKendter's exploit list; check out any of the LK games for what are considered exploits and not allowed (I may copy-paste)

Because it is a conquest game, and there will be plenty of warfare going on, I'll need 6 players (including myself) in the roster to start this one. I'm going to play the beginning of the game to make sure we're not stuck in a fifteen tile location surrounded by Carthago; therefore, I'll be last in the rotation.

Sign up, and prove gollum wrong!

Roster:
Rubberjello
Northern Pike
Belial
Judge Dredd
Karasu
ChrTh

Sounds a little like LK54 to me...

Originally posted by Arizona_Steve
Sounds a little like LK54 to me...

Click to expand...

Let's just say I was ... inspired

ChrTh: it's good to see that you have the right mindset for the other game

I'm not going to join. The reason for that can be found below

Well, if ChrTh isn't going to call it quits with the SG ideas, then I'm not going to call it quits joining them!

I'm in.

Welcome aboard (again!) Rubberjello!

AZ_Steve, I'm presuming your post wasn't a sign-up. If I'm wrong, let me know.

Well, I'm in four games at the moment, but two are about to end and one's open; so granted sufficiently flexible logic, 4 = 1, and I'll sign up here.

We'll need to play well. The Romans aren't a particularly good deity-level civ even in a game without special provisions.

I may be interested in joining - but to add more to the variant, why not buff up Carthage then? Slowly as the game progresses (make their units stronger, cheaper buildings, etc. etc.)

Not enough to kill everyone early on, but surely to make them a monster civ.

[Edit] I'll join if they get buffed up.

[Edit] What if they declare on us too? By getting discovering our spies and such? Take peace as soon as it is offered no matter what the consequence(s)?

@NP: Welcome aboard!

@Belial: I'm not sure how to buff Carthage up any more ... let me look into it.

If Carthage declares on us, we can only fight a defensive war; only troops within our borders can be attacked (cities conquered can be retaken, tho). We do not need to make peace immediately; however, since the goal is to make Carthage a worthy endgame opponent, no keeping them in war just for the sake of hurting them via WW, collapsed gov't, etc.

If the start is modified then units can be changed in defensive/offensive means as well as units given/taken from the civilization as well - I'm not the most experienced modder, but I'm sure someone could work something up.

I will admit, your beginning pretty much drew me in from the start and yet, I've never read the books, just found it entertaining.

I think I could go for a SG. I just made a total mess of this months GOTM and am disgusted with it. Tried RCP and just made it too tight. Count me in. I tend to play more carefuly in a SG so as not to peeve others.

I wouldn't mind joining this too even though I can only claim limited Deity experience.
I will be a bit busy in the coming months -but then, I'd be busy even without one more SG; so, why not! I like the idea.

And no, Northern Pike, I am not stalking you... good to see you here, tho.



ChrTh, what about having the map edited (a bit) to fit the feeling of the game? Say, a large inland sea or something -nothing too obvious of course.
Maybe the Carthage tile should be visible right from the start, to give a target to our hatred...

Judge Dredd, Karasu: Welcome aboard! We've got a full rotation...smeagol wins!

I decided I'm going to make Carthage militaristic; I'm not sure if a mod will allow me to make it a 3rd trait (if not I'll just replace Commercial), but Vet NuMes will make Carthage a serious player at the beginning. As a result that Carthage will be modded, I will have to create a map; I'm not going to try to simulate the Mediterranean, as I'm not really going for historical accuracy here

I expect to have the start tested and posted either tonight or tomorrow.

Rubberjello, you're on deck!

If you like, I can run a quick test to see what I can scoop up and then try to explain, provided I could get it to work.

Originally posted by Belial
If you like, I can run a quick test to see what I can scoop up and then try to explain, provided I could get it to work.

Click to expand...

Yeah, go ahead. It's looking like I won't get this started until tomorrow anyway

I think it will be too much of a hassle (for me at least) as the only way I can see it happening is actually creating a scenario where the map is randomly generated and then placing player and ai starts in different positions. Then give/change units to a more superior style and remove the 'usual' units from Carthage and replace them with the new and improved ones.

Sirian did something like this with his tweaks and I'm just not quite sure how he did it.

It -could- be done, but would take a couple hours on ChrTh's part, provided the interest was for it.

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know the game should be starting tomorrow night.

And away we go!

I did do a scenario; I beefed up Carthage with additional traits and techs (and made them more aggressive); I also made sure they're on a different continent from us (our starting spot was random, I just confirmed that it was on a different continent to Carthage's sweet starting spot). This may be a tough one, boyos...

Here's our starting spot:


Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/CTR7_4000BC.SAV

Rubberjello < UP (10-20 turns, your call)
Northern Pike < On Deck (10 turns)
Belial
Judge Dredd
Karasu
ChrTh

Heh! Wow! After that horrible start position in Hot8, this is a paradise start. I will try to play 20 tonight.

4000 (1) Settle as is (we are not on a bonus grassland - no real benefit for moving anywhere). Production set for Warrior, set max science for Pottery.

3750 (5) Warrior produced. Set for another. Worker is mining river BG.

3650 (7) Discover a Village close by, not brave enough to pop it now.

3500 (10) Warrior finished, Barracks started. Wheat plains to the West. Cow to the North. A total of 4 Wines tiles nearby.

3400 (12) Risk a hut pop and get 25 gold.

3300 (14) Discover Chinese (and silks) to the SW. They are up BW and Masonry. I can't get a deal on both, so I trade Alphabet for Masonry + 22 gold. Barracks finished, start on Settler (prebuild for Granary.)

3200 (16) Encounter Russian Spear. Trade Catherine Masonry for B.W. and 2 gold. Finish Pottery. Research scaled back to min on Mathematics. Russians start the Colossus. Build switched to Granary.

3000 (20) China has learned Ceremonial Burial. Rome is now size 3 and Happiness slider is now at 20%. Worker should get the Wines square hooked up next.

The Save 3000 BC