blending the good of call to power 2 with Civ 3

I was thinking the other day that CTP2 has some good qualities that I wish were integrated into Civ 3. Mainly, I'm talking about the tech tree and the different governments. I wish we could've had the brilliance of the Sid versions with the ability to use and control future technologies, governments, and units of the CTP versions. That would be the perfect game to me, with the addition of greater detail to economic strategy. The military strategy could use alittle work in terms terrain utilization and realism, but I won't hold it against them. Just wondering if anyone agrees or disagrees, or has some inpute for this topic. Maybe we can all tell Sid some ideas and they'll be incorperated into Civ 4.

future technologies

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Many players DON'T want future technologies. Civ3 would then lose the 'realism' effect (no, not everything in Civ3 is perfectly realistic, but it is realistic enough), and the object of the game being to re-shape 'history' (not the future).

The CTP series went over-board (over did it) with the future stuff.
I'll pass on the War Walkers and the Eco-rangers. One thing I like about Civ3, is that the buildings and units are familiar to me, so I already have a very good idea of what they do instead of needing to look in an instruction manual all the time. Everyone, whether a serious gamer or not, knows what a tank or a battleship is, but how many people know what a storm marine, swarm, or phantom is or does in the game? (I believe they are all outer-space military units for those who were curious).

governments

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CTP offered more governments, that is true. CTP, however, almost always forced you to change governments, because there was a better government available (you were limited to the # of cities for each government or else you gained an unhappy citizen in every city for each city you go over the 'limit', one government allowed 10 cities, another 20 cities, another 30 cities, etc.).

With the current method of changing governments (for non-religious civs), I can't imagine having 4-8 turns of anarchy 10-12 different times!

units

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The 'invisible' units were nothing but a pain in the rear. Don't want to see them ever again.....Oh wait I couldn't see them because they were 'invisible' . Seriously, they were nothing but annoying and a minor nuisance.

Other than the invisible units and the 'space'/future units, there wasn't any other units or major differences, was there?

detail to economic strategy

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Perhaps an 'economic victory' condition? I would support that idea.

tech tree

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Yes, the tech tree in the CTP series was more diverse, allowing you more choices in which direction to research. Of course, eventually you would have to research everything, but it allowed you to go further along one branch of the tree for a longer period of time (now only if the tech pace/turns to research wasn't so freakin' fast as it was in CTP).

CTP2 has some features that I believe would enhance CIV3, namely:

• Public Works (avoiding the worker slowdown)
• Stack Combat (no more attacking singularly in sequence)
• Trading Routes (including the piracy of)
• Good Diplomacy (reduction of armament, etc)
• SCRIPTING (allowed huge game changes)

I also appreciated the way CTP handled economics and national management, but I am not a fan of the Specialty units, future techs, or, as Bamspeedy noted, the continual replacements of Government. Perhaps the CTP2 Source Code being released will add the greater elements of CIV3 to CTP2, because I highly doubt the reverse will ever happen.

Well, CTP2 brought me into the turn-based genre. I love the game, played it to death and still fire it up on occasion.

I do prefer the CTP2 way of handling tile improvements. Im not a fan of workers.

I also loved the future era. I see nothing remotely realistic about the Civs. While the game components may be based on real people, places, and things...to me, thats where it ends. Its all fantasy to me and I like being able to continue into the future. I would love to see it as at least an option in future Civ versions.

At this point, its all Civ3 for me, but I appreciate what CTP/CTP2 brought.

I like the gov't difference and the salary/rations. Things like allowing different governments to have differents rate for more that just workers would be good. I don't mind the future aspect but as long as it could be modded that would be even better.

I don't want a future era, I would probably stop playing Civ if ever it was included. There are lots of people who feel the same way about it too.

There are good points in CTP? I never noticed.

Honestly, if we want to borrow ideas from other games, there's lots in Alpha Centauri that has not yet been included in a Civ game. Personally I'd love to see the Social Engineering screen in a Civ game (but better balanced than in SMAC - market economy sucked, for instance). I'm a bit divided on the whole designing units thing, but it might work if done right.

Agreed, more which was in SMAC could be well put in Civ III

Social Engineering for one, that always made government's very much "costomizable" and Diedre would always get upset with you if you didn't have a Green economy. Civs would even try to push you to convert to their economy and such...

One thing which should NOT be included is the designing units... yeah it seemed cool at first but eventually it was just a waste of time for me, and also lacked variety, cause many of the units looked the same...

I like the ability (with require technology of course) in CTP to build tunnel through the ocean floor to connect two continent/island together.

Well, this could be incorporated as a small wonder, i.e. the Channel Tunnel Wonder. Not only provides railroad connection between continents, but also Provides second continent with the continental-bordered-wonder-effects (CBWE, LOL). For example, Bach cathedral is off limits for colonies. This could circumvent thát.

Well when i bought CTP i was excited(CIV3 was not yet been released).So many units,so many building,goverments,a great manual..etc.Everything seemed to be perfect..until i played the game which realy sucked.I mean you could play for 2-3 days and nothing would hapen.The only goal was to build all these units!So..if i had to change something i would only add the helicopter units from CTP,that and nothing more.I certainly wouldn't like to see a future tech.in CIV3.

Perhaps they can add future technologies to the game, but with a new feature: set the tech tree to be complete or to go only up to a certain era. Not only it would allow both future technologies and playing the game as it is now, but also to play games that won't go beyong the medieval ages or the industrial age, or even the most antique age.

A thing I liked about the Call To Power games, is that it included more of everything: more units, more technologies, more goverments, more wonders; not all of them in the future.

thanks for responding. it seems the majority of players don't want future techs, so i guess a mod that included them would satisfy both sides. if that does happen i hope the techs have some realism based on current research like bio and nanotech project, quatum computers, ect.. i agree that the forced government switching was stupid, but it could be made possible. a revolution that occurs if your people are very unhappy, bad economy and don't have a sufficent military to control rioting for example. the current anarchy situation in civ 3 should be changed in my opinion. how long your in anarchy should be based on hapiness at the time u CHOOSE to switch governments, economic statis, culture and the time period you happen to be in. if your citizens are pissed at you, your countries bankrupt, or your people are weak in culture, they would most likely be eager to except a new form of government quickly. if u decided to change from despotism to monarchy for example, it's usually done in the ancient or medival period where the amount of time passes quickly from turn to turn. even in the modern age, anarchy shouldn't last for more than 2 turns though.