*Spoiler3*-Gotm25 Mongols - End Game Submitted

Again take a few seconds to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the divided spoiler rules.

This is the third and final spoiler thread to support discussion of the Gotm25-Mongols.

The objective of these divided spoiler threads is to provide a little organization to the discussion that will help more people find the topics that they are interested in without having to rummage through the entire game discussion.

The test for access to this spoiler thread is simple:

• you must have submitted your final save file from playing the game.

You may discuss any information from the game but if you are posting reports of events and/or activities in the Ancient or Medieval portions of the game, those reports should be placed in the correct spoiler for that time segment of the game.

For many players their game may have already ended in spoiler discussion 2, but this thread is basically for final game comments and discussions that may have eeked out of the Middle Ages.

This thread is a great opportunity to post an overall summary of how your game progressed. This thread is primarily intended to discuss the capstone modern age events from those games that players did not choose to win in the middle ages.

We hope that all players have enjoyed this game and that you are looking forward to Gotm26-Asian Melee and perhaps the Iroquois Conquest game in Game6-4 of the Medal Play Series.

PTW1.21
I finished in 920 ad. Slow ehh.

Once at war I kept making steady progress but was very slow compared to others. I made much more rapid progress once I had cavalry.

I started out attacking the Indians, which went well, but then I got chivalry and the special units. It took me 9 turns to take out the Magog, which ate into the golden age. I then attacked Russia, who crumbled easily, and then Korea followed by the Arabs. I did this as I wanted to clear my northern frontier and stop everyone walking through my undefended homelands. However, the Arabs were pretty strong and taking them on slowed me down a lot. In addition almost everywhere in my game was defended by musketeers. Is there a good way to dissuade the AI from upgrading?

I had kept everyone at war throughout the middle ages. The Germans were destroyed by the Celts, the Ottoman were destroyed by a big alliance, the Egyptians destroyed the japs, and the Chinese were destroyed by the Persians and Celts. As a result once I had finally beaten the Arabs I made rapid progress in the South.

The major benefit of my slow play, is that by getting into the industrial age I got to see the cool graphic of the steppe settlers dismounting to found cities.

Originally posted by Offa
However, the Arabs were pretty strong and taking them on slowed me down a lot. In addition almost everywhere in my game was defended by musketeers. Is there a good way to dissuade the AI from upgrading?[/B]

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The only fool-proof way is to destroy them first! Seriously, I usually try to take out the resources as soon as possible. If you can get Gunpowder first, or nearly first, for example, you can identify the Saltpeter sites and try to get to them before the AI hooks them up, or at least before they get Gunpowder themselves. Also, watch for possible trades from AI with multiple sources. Also, trying to keep them low on cash helps somewhat, either large GPT deals or keeping them in constant war. When you begin your invasion, make sure you take out the resources as soon as possible if you haven't already, it will at least keep him from rushing new good defenders, and you will face a lot of spearmen and bowmen.

The major benefit of my slow play, is that by getting into the industrial age I got to see the cool graphic of the steppe settlers dismounting to found cities.

Click to expand...

That is something I will have to check out, I was curious how they would work.

Way to go Offa !!

I am always in awe, (and somewhat jealous) whenever I hear of people ending before 1000AD.

I finished myself around 1400 with a diplomatic victory. I realized conquest was out of the question, so I thought I would try something other than a space ship victory.

This is my personal best (earliest date) for this type of win. Congrats to all who beat me and those who just play for fun like me.

Gotta so pack now, as I am moving at the end of the month. I'll keep my PTW disc in my computer so I can start up the new game as soon as I put my system back together.

Open - Civ3

Middle Ages

Han War (500 AD – 620 AD)
I declare War on Han + Ott are with me for Metallurgy. My army is 16 Ordus & 3 Korchins (I do not use them that often only for the occasional kill & for MP) & 11 Bagatur. My only defense unit was due to a Russian town flipping to me so I am full attack.
I did not upgrade units to Steppe Settler (short of cash) and continue building Ordus and settlers to fill gaps as I begin to raze towns more regurlarly.
Peace with Egypt with 73 GP & 5 GPT than Alliance vs Han for Silks & Wine
Bring Keltoi with me giving Metallurgy
This is a BIG alliance to fight the Hans but I certainly did not want to face many riders.
510 AD : I am one turn out of Steam with a leader in my pocket to build but what ? I go for Newton’s … losing some turns and elite wins for nothing. I continue to trade WM for some GP … I am really short on cash as I am rushing libraries in conquered towns to expand boundaries while searching at max speed to avoid being outdated. In retrospect, I should have rushed temples that are cheaper
520 AD : Arabs : WM & 255 GPT & 377 GP vs Steam + MPP for Coal & WM & 42 GPT . This MPP will be very useful for the rest of the game, forcing Arabs to fight when I want.
540 AD: Another WM deal… I am searching at 100% and still making 91 GPT !
Han are finished. Who is the next target ? I suspect, I need to go for Khazars & Keltoi & Germany in this order. In the meantime, I do some more trading
Arabs : Elect & WM & 63 GPT & 64 GP vs Indus
I re-declare War on Egypt.
Otto : Alliance to fight Egypt for Coal & Spices + Gems & 49 GPT & 133 GP for Indus.
I go for Democracy in 4 turns while moving my forces to attack Keltoi



Continuous Wars (Keltoi – Khazars – Germany – Ottomans – Togukawa – Egypt)
650 AD: I am now declaring War on Keltoi. One more leader for an army … I will be able to build the Pentagon. I have now 25 Ordus & 11 Bagaturs & 9 Turghaut & still 3 Korchins
670 AD : I declare War on Khazars & give Silks for Gorg to join fight vs Germans + Ottomans with Electricity to fight Keltoi…
720 AD: More leaders and just before the end of the MPP with Arabs. I have the stupid Keltoi to attack a purposely left lone warrior .. It triggers MPP with Arabs … Cool isn’it ?
750 AD : Trade Incense & Medicine for 220 GPT and then MPP for 95 GPT so I make some GPT…I sell Medicine to Ott for 79 GPT & WM. I have another leader to built the ToE in New Karakorum (razed & rebuilt Keltoi town). I leave Keltoi last town and try to have MPP with Arabs to trigger war against Germany. I still do not have nationalism & Arabs have also Replacement Part so they need to be my best pals till the end of the game.
780 AD : I finally get to fight the Germans. This war started in approx 800 BC ! Another leader comes just in time to finish Hoover Dam in razed & rebuilt town of Konisberg. Again Arabs are with me with the MPP.
810 AD : With Military Tradition in my pocket I start building some Cavs, I even updated few Ordus but I keep my cash for Libraries upgrade to expand boundaries and keep Ordus, they are great units bombarding again & again defenders. It is so efficient even against Riflemen even if you miss many times. They are cheap and numerous and fast. I also continue to build settlers in order to fill gaps and minimize rush building of culture. I start to shift my forces to the Ottomans in order to crush them.
A new leader builds the Military Academy.



830 AD : Peace with Egypt for Nationalism & Trade Corporation for Scientific Method to Ottomans & Arabs pays WM & 240 GP & 67 GPT for Scientific Method. I declare War against Ottomans. At this moment, I have 3 Cavs & 4 Armies & 41 Ordus & 10 Bagatur. I need the Cavs to finish red-lined Riflemen. I did face some Balkan Dragoon but not that much.
850 AD: Steadily destroying Ottomans towns and replacing with my own produced settler. Some more deals to keep everyone happy. I have another left warrior that triggers the MPP with Arabs . Gifting lux to Gorg they have an MPP with Arabs. So I really can not attack these guys any-more. I will need to continue with Egypt.
920 AD : Togu is dead . I wanted them to leave my territory and they declared WAR . and Ottomans have a single town. I have stopped marauding Egyptians forces with a weak line of warriors and catapult because I will soon need to go after them. I have stopped producing Libraries that are too costly and I go for Temple in some towns, just to get this extra culture I may need. I just wish I would have thought of this earlier
930 AD : I trade with Arabs Replace Parts & WM & Slave & 244 GP & 48 GPT vs Atomic Theory. I gather Korea & Gorg for the War against Egypt and Arabs will be coming with me by MPP (as usual )… I now have 23 Cavs & 35 Ordus & 10 Bagaturs & 3 Korchins. I even used my last 2 leader to rush build libraries in order to gain territory.
960 AD : I am 19 tiles away from Domination Victory. I place some settlers in key position in order to ensure victory in next turn but I have cultural expansion that triggers my domination victory.



Final Score 8412 – not too bad for me after once more failing at QSC time to have a decent (more than 10) number of towns.

Open - Civ3

I loved the effectivness of the combination of Ordus & Bagatur. These are lethal when used together and even against Rifleman. To be sure of the win you may need a cav for the final kill but this is not mandatory.

Mongols with these UU are very dangerous. I am not ready yet to face them in future game.

Looking at other games I think I need to improve my management of the research I intend to be confident when I am leading in techs and start panicking a bit when I am behind.

But my late victory is directly linked to my slow start (only 6 towns at QSC cut-off). So I need to work more to progress...

ptw 1.21 open

This is my first gotm, and judging by earlier post i'm regretting my submission. I lost the game in 1750 AD when the egyptians finished their spaceship.

I startet out with making war on my lesser neighbours when they were already in trouble and captured cities close to my territory. Eventually i ended up as the second largest civ (all but 5 wiped out), but i was greatly lacking in technology throughout most of the game. Not sure why, but i probably broke some deal, because the others were furious with me most of the time and refused to trade.

I usually play on monarch because i like to win in a civilized manner and not with force (no disrespect intended) and this probably was my downfall.

Salte, don't regret submitting your game. The GOTMs are fantastic to play in and many of the top players share their secrets in the forums to help the rest of us improve our game play. One thing I have picked up is that early expansion is the key to a good score-something that I'm still working on!

Re your note on the AIs refusing to trade, check out Bamspeedy's excellent article on AI attitude in the War Acadamy elsewhere in this site AI attitude which I personally found very useful.

OpenX (without special units)
1.27

Spoiler 1
Spoiler 2
Spoiler 3

340AD - 1305AD

Wars
I continued my MAs and phony war against Egypt. Egypt's hold their cities well. Meanwhile I attacked with cavalries vs weakest civ:
410AD - 450AD Coguryeo annihilated
540AD - 900AD Celts annihilated
800AD - 860AD Russians annihilated
910AD - 940AD Koreans annihilated

I had total of eight GL. I rushed wonders and buildings. Zero armies.

5000 years old Zulu's promised not to make wars anymore. Zulu's honored the promise by disbanding all military units to cultural improvements.

Science
340AD gifted Russians, Koreans, Ottomans and Germans to IA. Russians got Medicine, Koreans got Steam Power, Ottomans and Germans got Nationalism. I treed to buy techs but their price was too high.
350AD Russians and Koreans have Medicine and Steam Power. I trade with Koreans MT and gold for Steam Power. Russians: MT, WM and 1025 gold for Medicine. Germans: Medicine, Steam Power, MT and 345 gold for Nationalism. Russians: Nationalism for 1090 gold. I start own research max speed first to Electricity and after that towards Combustion. Electricity was gifted to each scientific civs. Germans got Replaceable Parts and I of course traded asap.
800AD ToE completed and last two IA tech acquired.
Modern Times: This time I wasn't lucky to get all four techs when I gifted IA techs to scientific civs. Only Rocketry and Ecology were gained. 7-8 turns per tech. So I made two choices. Researched optional Miniaturization and built the Internet. 1010AD Revolted and draw 7 turn anarchy period. Democracy "killed" corruption and research time per tech decreased to 4-5 turns. Universities were built even in high corruption cities. 1305AD When I finished my gotm. I had Library and Research Lab on every city (Literacy 89%).


Iron Works
There is at least 3 places for Iron works. Two in near Rajaputana's starting location and one near Khwarimizian's starting location.





1305 Space race Victory. Firaxis score 9770.

Thank you for your words of encouragement(?) Tone. My main problem was that i've always thought of myself as a half decent civ-player, but i seem to be the only one having lost this game. Well, well, u live and learn i guess. I'll check out your link, and hopefully learn something.
BTW does anyone know about a longer list of CIV ACRONYMS than this one http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/Civ3_jargons.txt ? Its unsuffiscient

Originally posted by Salte
My main problem was that i've always thought of myself as a half decent civ-player

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So did I until I hit upon this site! When I saw the scores that the top people were getting, I realised that there was still plenty of room for improvement. I'm still picking up ideas-as they say: the more you learn, the more you realise how much more there is still to learn (or something like that anyway).

Bollocks! Forgot Again. Open PTW1.27f
The Industrial Age brought global domination for the horde in 980 AD. This was in part brought about by the wonders of the steam engine which allowed the horde to utilise a zero defence sphere and commit more of their forces to the front. Of course some of the old timers lamenting the "old ways" of the steppe had to be convinced in the time honoured tradition of unarmed combat with starving bears.
Once all embraced the military possibilities of the the new technology the extermination of the Arabs and the subjugation of the Han were formalities.





Firaxis score : 8344

v1.27f

I still need to get ~800 tiles for domination and I am bit past 1100AD. I did well going into the industrial age snagging Smith's, ToE and leader rushed Hoover next turn. The cash sucked out of the leaders for AT ground the tech pace to a halt. I killed several more civs.

However, there is simply no way I can finish any type of victory by tomorrow. Most of my time for today and tomorrow is already committed.

My performance in this GOTM will be terrible. The reason was taking to long to understand how to use my UUs. I should have played the test game to understand them, yet that would have required more time.

This was the best ever GOTM, and the UU were great. However, it doesn't make sense to try to play anymore GOTM after missing two in a row. I played GOTM to compare my scores to others, so playing the games after the deadline to complete them has no appeal.

My other interest was what other people found out about the game. However, the post count for the games is dropping. I don't see as much happening there either.

Conquest - Mac 1.29f

Finally done... 1415 AD with domination. Firaxis of 7308 and a nonweighted Jason of 7360.

My best score yet and my play is getting much better but I am still awed by players finishing before 1000 AD. Of course, apparently somebody got a 550 AD win! Yikes!

The Mongol's UUs were brilliant and I think I was able to use them well, until others hit the Industrial Age and I was well behind. At that point I moved to the end of the Medieval Age and built lots (!) of cavalry to complement my hordes and slogged on.

I cannot imagine the AI using the mongols at all well, which in some ways is a shame.

To the gotm staff and cracker... awesome work.

PS. Anybody, how do you figure out how many tiles you have and how many more you need to win a domination?

Originally posted by Boyd
PS. Anybody, how do you figure out how many tiles you have and how many more you need to win a domination?

Click to expand...

You can use mapstat utility at
here

Civ 1.29f Predator

Sorry, my English is very bad!

Finished in 470AD - 10275 Fraxis

First leader in 800BC.All leaders I used for wonders.

800 BC Forbiden
450 BC Sun Tzu`s
390 BC Sistine
150 BC JSB Cathedral
110 BC Leonardo`s

Great libary captured from Khazars in 690 BC

130 BC



230 AD


340 AD


470 AD


Hystogram


That is all
Bye!




Pictures links fixed by ainwood.

Civ3v1.29, Predator

Most of my game was posted in the second spoiler. This was my first time to finish a GOTM before the submission deadline. I finally achieved domination in 980ad firaxis score 8407. The last turns were painfully slow, and basically involved building many cavalry and filling in holes with settlers. My opponents all had riflemen for the last 15 or so turns, so knocking them out was tedious. Loved the game overall though. Until the "clean up" at the end, it was a blast.

I should have finished a few hundred years earlier, and from looking at others games, I believe the following were my biggest mistakes:

Founded on the spot because I didn't see the northeast wheat. That slowed me a bit.
Picked a poor first target for war. I think it would have been more beneficial in the long run to have attacked Ghandi first.
Should have set my opponents to war with one another upon entering the middle ages (like SirPleb).

I am sure there were many other tactical errors, but those are the ones I can see.

Great game GOTM team, thank you!

Tried for 100k victory this time.

Around 1000AD the game started to freeze. Restarted several times after it froze at 1090AD, but no cigar. Had to leave the game at 33000 culture points and making around 650 per turn.

Some impressive games from some of you

Phew, again finished the game on the last moment. After some bad choices I compensated by making some even more terrible choices to win with domination victory in 1370 AD.

Nothing for the newbies to learn about except that the Great Library indeed does give you all the techs that two or more civilizations has in the turn that Education is discovered!

I grabbed the GL very late, with only the first 3 middle age (MA) techs in my posession and it gave me about the compleet tech ladder for the the whole MA.

Yep, by far my only good move in this game. Something to remember on a Deity or semi-god game where the tech pace seems to go nuts some times. Just wait a few 100 years and then grab the Great Library so that you can harvest any tech EVEN AFTER EDUCATION that any two civ's have.

Another notice is the lack of reactions in this spoiler. I am submitting just before the end-date for this game and my post will still be on the first page (normally its much further on). Is this because we all played for conquest and that hack and slash games are to straigh forward to post spoilers on?

MPF

Originally posted by LKendter

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Sorry to see you go LKendter. Its true that the number of posts is dropping. I just posted my endgame and my post is still on the first page!!

Still, the game has improved greatly thanks to Cracker and his team. Personally I would like to see more variance in the victory types (like the commercial victory once played in the medal series). Hope to see you around as all the good players and posters do have a vital role; they show the way to a better gaming perfomance.

Good luck,

MPF