2nd attempt; space armarda

Hi all, I've been off researching my idea for a space armarda type mod, I've seen lots of people just lately working on space mods so any thing I do produce is likely to be of some use to some one.

I couldn't find the original thread, and as this is some what of a back to the drawing board type post, I thought I'd start a new one.

O.k I've had a prety drastic rethink of my ideas after reading Alastair reynolds exelent "revelation space" books.
Reynolds is a practicing scientist as well as a writer so his books have an element of realisim that some sci-fi lacks.

For one thing, most science fiction that involves space colonisation leaps straight from inner system spaceflight to instantaneous faster than light travel and comunication. Reynolds dwells more on the era of slower than light exploration using cryostasis, with wolrds being serveral decades apart even with near light travel.

So I'm going to dwell mainly on the first two eras of space travel;
Inner system exploration and "slower than light" colonisation.

I'm taking a whole new angle on graphics too. The main models are quie simple shapes, for ease of rendering but they have complex textures.

I'm keeping the ambient light low, but using light sources on the textures (glow channels) to make the ships stand out from the darknes of space. This is because deep space is actualy very dark, if the ships don't have an external ilumination source, they would be nearly invisible.

Combat in deep space is also very difficult, the ships can only accelerate at low speed without risking injury to thier crew, so most of a space flight is spent speeding up and slowing down. So if two ships are on the same course, but spaced a distance apart, that gap is almost imposible to close, as the limits set on their speed are due to the human body. Although space seems like a vacum, at near light speed it is actualy very resisatant to a body pushing through it, due to trace amounts of interstellar gasses. A lighthugger therefore has to be very aerodynamic.

There are going to be two classes of ship, system ships (shuttles, armed freighters, rocket barges) and interstellar ships (converted freighters, and light huggers to begin with).

here is a preview of a more advanced light hugger;

The main design of a lighthugger is simple, an aerodynamic hull, made of resistant material (synthetic diamond), with one or two powerfull engines.

I've already started working on the animations, and next month hope to overhaul my terrain graphics (they were too confusing before).
even with simple shapes I can make quite good animations, heres a death animation for an armoured light hugger;

Like that animation very much

A realistic lighthugger would have to have fantastically strong armour - at speeds close to c, colliding with a tiny speck of dust is like running into a nuclear mine!

yes, the main hull at least is made of a layer of hyper-diamond, a form of carbon rearanged at the molecular level to be manny millions of times harder than regular diamond. It is similar to the material used in Kim stanley robinsons Mars trilogy for the manufature of the space elevator, and is practicaly unbreakable.

In reynolds books, the ships travel at a maximum of about 8/10ths of the speed of light. Later improvements allow control of the inertia of the space ship at a quantum level. This means that the ship requires less energy to accellerate and decelerate, drasticaly reducing travel time at the beginning and end of the journey. this requires a quantum state change of all matter in the ship, and is quite hazardous to any human not already frozen, as their organs and liquids aquire different inertial properties, resulting in the possibility of heart attacks or strokes.

A further quantum state change locks the matter into a photonic state, where it is able to do nothing other than travel at the speed of light, this is deffinately fatal as the state is unchangable one acheived. If it becomes possible to jump beyond the photonic state it is possible to enter a tachyonic state, where the matter travels faster than light. This how ever is very, very dangerous.

More realistic attempts at faster than light travel include the creation of worm holes, though the energy needed to create even a microscopic wormhole is imense to the point of being unacheivable with eraly era technology.

One thing I'm not going to do is clutter up the thread with too many previews. Once the units are finished I'll post them, what I could do with is discussion of possible technological progression and new unit/ building ideas. I want great wonders to be rare, and there to be more small wonders that are dependant on what planets your culture controls.

here are some small wonder ideas;

Conjoiner council specific to Technoarchy (technological oriented anrachic collective)
A set of tallented scientists neuraly linked with technological improvements to inteligence. Gives great scientific improvement to city. Technomarcy is offshoot of the anarchy/capitalism branch of (non)government which began to evolve within america in the early 21st century. It's sister government is Demarchy, where every one has a say in the (non)running of government.

AI council Specific to Technocracy
The same as the conjoiner council, but for a more controled form of government, an offshoot of old democracy.

Biological computer world requires a water planet in radius
In reynolds books the galaxy is seeded with occasional "pattern juggler" planets, which is a biological computer organism. This small wonder is a artificial varient. provides extra science to the city.

Collonial center requires terran planet in raduis
doubles the growth of city in the same way as longevity in civIII.

Antimatter production plant requires blue gas giant in radius Has the same effect as the iron works.

Fusion fuel harvesters requires a red gas giant in radius Increases the movement of ships by one point.

Quantum state research center increases movement rate iof ships by two points.

Industrial orbital elevator Requires ore planet in radius increases production in city.

Very nice. I can use these for my Space scenario.

Some governments could be;

anarchy offshoot;
Demarchy/Technoarchy emphasis on the rights and responsibilities of the individual, and better living through technology, but with anarchic syndicast/ capitalist underpinnings.

Total anarchy Good old anarchy from civ III, available with a revolution.

structural government offshoot
Democracy/Technocracy emphasis on the rights and responsibilities of the individual, and better living through technology, but with strong structural government, possibly with wellfare leanings

Military governments
Collonial republic/league military/totalitarian govenment of individual worlds, space habitats with a republican structure to the overall league. Good for small cultures with militant leanings.

Collective governement offshoot
Conjoiner collective An advanced government, that could be called a future step in human evolution. With all members of the culture linked neuraly to a cenral council with different levels of security clearance, dependant on the current diplomatic climate.
Socialist collective An old idea, but well suited to small cultures, giving all members a equal standing. However, emphasis is on the good of the collective not the individual, and an individuals rights are often narrow in scope.

I very much like your ideas and initial spaceship renderings -- they remind me (very fondly) of the graphics design approach taken in Babylon 5 (perhaps it's the texturings ... ?)

Best,

Oz

looks very interesting, SM. Should make an excellent mod.

I love the idea of this in fact.... well, you'll see

anyway, i have a suggestion for a new type of government-

Imperial Republic
basically, a few days ago, I was thinking about if the Roman EMpire had survived, what it might have, government wise, evolved into- this is basically the result

The imperial republic, a quasi-democratic form of government elects magistrates on the local leval, and in that respect has full democracy, inlcudong up to the plaetary, and system wide scale(I think that would be approprite for the mod), however, this is where democratic thought get foldeded into that of republic, and then empire

these magistates, governors and the like then form a council overseeing a province, and elect one provincial govenor to act as the head of the province, in addition, a senator is choosen, as well as a tribune of the people (thus representing a three teird government, executive,legislative,and judicial branches, mind you that the function of tribues, and senators would have changed in function somwaht by this time in the idea)

the Tribune is basically a high judge, along with a panel of lesser tribunes, acting somwaht in the form ofg a supreme court, though the Emperor ofcourse keeps the righ tto overturn the choices of the court, if ratified by the senate

that said, the way an emperor is put onto the throne is not for terms, but is indeed for life, unless there is wide branching majority to dethrone him, or untill the emperor abdicates the throne- the emperor is ratified in most cases by an agreement of the military (the centurate council), and the senate on a candidate, the ratiying of the candidcy by the the judicial branch

the emperor has extreme power, but is limited by Imperial law, that which offers a great deal of personal liberty, including allowing local provinces to have subset laws, though the emperor dose not have to obey those laws if in the province, as he is governend by Imperial law alone

economy wise,a great deal is over seen by the government, lest the wealthy buissness be in such a position to try to prop itself up into a rebelling government of systems, and in many ways, the economic policy could be seen socialistic free market economy

yes, Imperial republic would be a good secondary military govenrment, with collonial leage being for smaller empires (imperial republic could have lower corruption at the expense of war weariness perhaps).

It is quite difficult ballancing different governments, as there is only a small degree of variables to set them apart. people will soon work out the three or four best govenrments and avoid the rest. So getting the right mix is important.

Total anarchy; total corruption, despot handicap, low worker rate.

Demarchy/Technoarchy; high corruption, extra trade arrows, high worker rate, medium war weariness.

Democracy/Technocracy; medium corruption, despot handicap, extra trade arrows, medium worker rate, medium war weariness.

Collonial republic/league;high corruption, high worker rate, xenophobia, no war weariness
Imperial Republic; medium corruption, despot handicap, Low worker rate, no war weariness

Conjoiner collective;collective corruption, high worker rate, xenophobia, medium war weariness
Socialist collective;collective corruption, despot handicap, medium worker rate, medium war weariness

Despot handicap is the reduction of all resources (food, shields, & trade) over two per square. This is a kind of localised corruption incured by structalised governments whose lowest political unit is the planet-city state or habitat-city state. (as those citizens without political representation feel can feel caught up in a system too big for them).

Xenophobia is the effect caused by fascism in civ III conquests. It is incured by all govenments who have a prerequisite for membership of the culture, such as being born localy, or undergoing cybernetic implantation.

Remember thse are just the governments for the first two eras, I've left certain variables such as high war weariness, and low corruption for the more technologicaly advanced government types. Other powerfull combinations can be acheived using varriables already used such as extra trade arrows with lower corruption and no despot handicap.

I've finished putting together the interstellar craft for the first two eras, next is the innersystem craft. Heres a preview of the nine interstellar craft. I may drop one or two due to them being too similar to each other;

I like the rates set up with the governments, but as it is, I think that Imperial Republic is to handicapped, and that cojouner and socialist collectives are two similer- as it is the top one seems better in all respects...

my suggest- to balence out the low worker rate under Imperial Rep, take away the despot handicap- the present of a senate representing all the empire, and baslencing out the primarilly military regard of the emperor should avoid it anyway...

and for conjoiner collective, I would suggest making them have a high war wearyness- considering that to make that government happen it would take HUGE amounts of resources, and energy- things which also happen to be in HUGE demande during a war would make me think all the participents would be more interested in keeping things running smooth for them then interstellar conquest

Originally posted by Smoking mirror
I've finished putting together the interstellar craft for the first two eras, next is the innersystem craft. Heres a preview of the nine interstellar craft. I may drop one or two due to them being too similar to each other;

Click to expand...

Great Stuff!

of them, I personally like ships 2, and three best, very intimidateing ship that 3rd one...

number one is a modified freighter, This is a convertion of a inner system ship, its the earliest naval unit and is weak and very slow, moving just one square per turn (three if you build the quantum state reasearch station). It cannot carry any units and is purely for exploration.

slightly better armed and able to carry a foot unit is number four, the generational ship (so called because several generations of crew could live out thier lives on the same trip).

Number seven is the leviathan class starship, its huge bulk makes it as slow as the earliest ships, but it can carry any two ground units

number two is a small light hugger, it can carry only one foot unit (frozen settlers and small shuttles), mostly its for fast exploration as compared to the earlier units it has in improved movement rate (three).

Its bigger cousin is number five, the large light hugger, able to carry any one ground unit at high speed.

Number eight is a millitant light hugger, its engines protected within the armoured hull it can stand great punnishment, but can only carry light ground units.

Number three is the most advanced traditional light hugger, the kraken class is equiped with one giant engine within its advanced armoured hull. It also boasts a large hold, able to carry the same as the leviathan. In any class it is equivalent to any ship produced before it.

Number six and nine are experimental ships. They are fitted with advaned tachyon state field projectors able to exend a bubble of altered quantum state around the ship. Six is merely a converted light hugger, with a small field projector it is able to make short changes of state (quantum leaps) and travel faster than light but at some risk. (ship has 50% chance of being lost at sea, but with a movement value of around 4, or 6 with the QSRS, you can reach another star system in one or two turns). Number nine is a tachyon disk, suposed to be the first of a new generation of faster than light ships, the tachyon disk is soon abandoned in favour of a safer way to reach extremly distant locations, such as small wormholes (civ III airports) and perhaps experiments in extra dimentional shifts or brane theory (moving momentarily into a different dimention where the laws of quasality are different from our own, and then shifting back once you reach your required destination).

I may produce a tachyon Sphere or super disk for the begining of the next era, but the inherant dangers of trying to break the laws of quasaity make tachyon state fields extremly dangerous. (the A.I won't use them at all unless it can cross a section of deep space in one turn).

Hmmm.. when it comes to govenments you have to be carefull, I think imperial republic is already quite strong, as it is a military government (no war weariness) with low (for an early era) corruption rate and it doesn't suffer form xenophobia, which will make expansion very easy. The roman empire (and the imperial states of the nineteenth century) was an expansionist machine, conquering territory and then putting it to work for the aim or further conquest.

Conjoiner collective is actualy an upgrade of demarchist and socialist collective governments available towards the middle of the second era, where as demarchism and socialist collective will be available quite early.

One final balancing factor will be the amount of gold needed to suport each unit. Conjoiner collectives will spend much of thier gold on fleet maintenance (up to three gold per turn), while the more technlogicaly simple govenments will pay much less for unit maintenance (just one or two gold per turn, with some such as imperial republic gaining free maintenance from thier city states).

I have a default flic for ship three already finished, so you can get a feel for the size and quality of the units. down load it here;

Some of the other concepts I'm thinking of using are Cryoarithmatic engines, a kind of quantum computer which violates a law of thermodynamics, causing extreme localised heat loss. They are implanted in the skin of a ship and serve to camoflage it perfectly against the glactic background temperature.
I'm thinking of making a special stealth ship, with advanced "dark drive" engines which shifts thier exaust to another dimention to evade detection. It would be a submarine type ship, perhaps I'll just make all ships above a certain level invisible, and all ships above a further higher level both invisible and able to detect invisible (special scanning technology). This would give you definate incentives for upgrading your fleet.

Another idea is different ways of altering the Higgs field, the field that causes both mass and inertia. I discussed above how it could reduce inertia to increase the performance of a ship, but it could also increase inertia or mass, making an unbreachable wall of artifical force or mass, and could give the possibility of artificial gravity. You could even use similar effects to create a starship made of nothing but the generator itself, it would be a craft of pure force or artifical matter, able to change shape and quantum proberties at will.

There are also several other ideas, such as using the quantum nature of the human brain for limited comunication with the past, or special weapons that abuse the very nature of space time, such as a hypometric weapon, which causes an area of effect simply not to exist. Its also posible that there could be a link between the quantum processes of consiousness and the quantum gravitational processes which underpin space time, so that using an amplifier you could change the curvature of space time, causing a shield of gravitational shearing force that would rip anything apart that tried to cross it.

There are also ways of creating time machines, which although they don't allow travel back to before the building of the machine, and involve processes that would be intrinsicly deadly for a human traveler (like being frozen to absolute zero) they would allow the possibility of comunicating back and forth in time, though perhaps at an unrealistic energy cost.

These are realy technologies for the third or fourth era, a time when mankind has been traveling the stars for a thousand years or two.

I forgot all about using unit mateinace as a balencer - though expanding off your point abotu the super-expansionism of the Roman, and colonzation, and Imperialism era empires, perhaps a special small wonder should be given to the Imperial Republic that gives a special free units that have the enslament ability, the only real problem is balenicng them, as eventually they will be too weak in comparison to other ships...though I suppose one could always just have a tech in the next era that renders the wonder obsolte, and have a new Imp-Rep gov minor wonder that has the same effect, but a stronger ship...

Originally posted by Smoking mirror
Some of the other concepts I'm thinking of using are Cryoarithmatic engines, a kind of quantum computer which violates a law of thermodynamics, causing extreme localised heat loss. They are implanted in the skin of a ship and serve to camoflage it perfectly against the glactic background temperature.
I'm thinking of making a special stealth ship, with advanced "dark drive" engines which shifts thier exaust to another dimention to evade detection. It would be a submarine type ship, perhaps I'll just make all ships above a certain level invisible, and all ships above a further higher level both invisible and able to detect invisible (special scanning technology). This would give you definate incentives for upgrading your fleet.

Click to expand...

I LOVE this idea a stroke of pure genious!

Originally posted by Smoking mirror

Another idea is different ways of altering the Higgs field, the field that causes both mass and inertia. I discussed above how it could reduce inertia to increase the performance of a ship, but it could also increase inertia or mass, making an unbreachable wall of artifical force or mass, and could give the possibility of artificial gravity. You could even use similar effects to create a starship made of nothing but the generator itself, it would be a craft of pure force or artifical matter, able to change shape and quantum proberties at will.

Click to expand...

interesting...but how could be represented in the game?

Originally posted by Smoking mirror

There are also several other ideas, such as using the quantum nature of the human brain for limited comunication with the past, or special weapons that abuse the very nature of space time, such as a hypometric weapon, which causes an area of effect simply not to exist. Its also posible that there could be a link between the quantum processes of consiousness and the quantum gravitational processes which underpin space time, so that using an amplifier you could change the curvature of space time, causing a shield of gravitational shearing force that would rip anything apart that tried to cross it.

Click to expand...

so in other words a space nuke?

Originally posted by Smoking mirror

There are also ways of creating time machines, which although they don't allow travel back to before the building of the machine, and involve processes that would be intrinsicly deadly for a human traveler (like being frozen to absolute zero) they would allow the possibility of comunicating back and forth in time, though perhaps at an unrealistic energy cost.

Click to expand...

I dislike the thought of time machines in the game to be honest with you, just because it might to hard to really implement in game (in reality, I dont know, though I suppose S. Hawkings thought on the matter are rather conclusive- time machines cant exists, as no one from the future has come to us "yet" )

Originally posted by Smoking mirror

These are realy technologies for the third or fourth era, a time when mankind has been traveling the stars for a thousand years or two.

Click to expand...

neat-o