GOTM 36 spoiler

la fayette

King
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Jun 18, 2001
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albi france
I know that restarts are on in this game, but I chose conquest, in order to be able to test whether it is possible to fight victoriously against respawning.
It is now 920AD and I have just finished conquering the other 6 civs on the same turn.
Respawning occured and I am now facing 6 newborne civs with 28 turns left to try to achieve conquest before 1500AD.
 
I think the best way to get a conquest victory is to build up a huge empire pre 1500, then just trash everyone once you pass that date. If you allow the computers to stay in the game longer, they will build up larger cities for you to take over. Remember that comps require less food to grow and less resources to build wonders, so you can let them build all the crappy wonders for you and build large cities so you have a higher score when you take them over. Since the score equation will naturally tend to give the highest scores somewhere ~1770 AD, Conquest victories will probably be the highest scores (though the 400 point space bonus is nice).
 
Well I'm happy. Didn't chicken out at any time so I going to finish this game though things looked sour before I got fundy and all other civs teamed up against me.

Peace in our time and reaching AC was my original plan, but unhappiness and war screwed up my plans. So at this point I just happy if I finnish the game. There are 6 Sioux-cities left. And three of them are hidden somewhere:( An this being my first deity-game which I finish, I'm all happy with finishing before retirement:D
 
Yes, finished it:D Now if I only had remembered to take my stats with me so I could submit it right now.

One question about conquest victory: Should you submit a save game just before you take the last city or just before you end that turn when you took the last city?
 
I finished last night. I'm very pleased - I think it's my first diety conquest victory! :D It wasn't until the 20th Century, but I'm pleased all the same. I managed to keep a spotless rep throughout. I had a tough time to start with - the Japanese were cruel and I lost many cities, but I came though. Roll on GOTM 37! :D
 
I'm doing OCC, using Classic/2.42. Early Monarchy, Early Trade, tried for Early Marco Polo but it took me till 1100BC to finish it. Wish I had some Barb visits to speed things along...
 
I just started last night & decided to 'get back on the OCC horse'. I'm doing MUCH better than last game, but expect to finish later than Elephant (I don't gift nearly as much as he & I'm more careless to boot.)

But we'll just have to see how it goes.
 
I am after first evening with the game - 920 AD, Democracy, New technology every three turns. I did no wars so far, no exploring - so now I think what to do - win by spaceship or conquest. What is important on the year 1500 if restarts are on? Is it possible to kill other civilizations after this date without its restart?
 
Thanks for this woinderful game. I love it to start on a small island without any hut: you can get the technologies you want - Monarchy at 3200 bc.
I kept as usual the second settler (later it was my first ingenieur) and build 6 cities on the island. I didn't leave the island, I didn`t change technologies, I didn't trade with another civilisation. I only buildt the Great Library and got four or five techs from it.
It was a nice quick game - only four hours to play. Surely, without the benefits of oversea-caravan-trading or conquering other cities and tribes, the years are running quicke. I just launched the biggest spaceship 1935...
 
Originally posted by golem
What is important on the year 1500 if restarts are on? Is it possible to kill other civilizations after this date without its restart?
This is true at Deity level: no respawning after 1500AD
 
Originally posted by Willi
It was a nice quick game - only four hours to play.

I choked on my sandwich cracker reading that one!

I'm in the boring spaceship parts phase of my OCC game. Should have some comments up later this week.
 
Just out of curiosity, how many settlers do you guys max out at in your games? It seems like the GOTM encourages settler massing for terraforming, since you can't just gradually terraform (waiting too long after mid year, 1770 in diety, isn't very good for your score). I maxed out at about 500 engineers at once.

I also noticed this game that I am doing much better than gotm 35, despite the fact that 35 was at a lower level. There could have been many reasons for this, but I feel the single largest reason is in gotm 35 I decided to continue on to a spaceship whereas in gotm 36 I stopped teching after reducing the computers to a single settler, and attaining refrig/explos/magnetism. It seems like the gotm *greatly* discourages spacerace tech, since the clock is always ticking so to speak. If you choose not to tech at all at a certain point, and use that trade for money to buy masses of engineers, the end result is a much larger score (population is everything!). Have others found similar results?
 
Since I finished up my normal game, I decided to play an OCC game on this map just for fun. What is the normal date of completion for occ players? Also I think I saw someone mention that caravans can speed up space shuttle production, but it didn't seem to work for me (for the structurals anyway). Does space ship speed building only work on components/modules? Maybe only can speed build using caravans from other cities? At any rate, I think I did pretty well, using a wonder build order of hanging gardens, colossus, richards, copern, isaac, shakespear, etc. I nabbed 15 wonders in all, the computer ai really is horrible at wonder building indeed.

On a side note, I noticed that my help files for copernicus and isaac were messed up. The observatory states a 50% boost in science, where in actuality its 100%. The college says it doubles science output, but it only tacks on an additional 50% *if* you possess a library. All I have to say about the real numbers is that they make absolutely no sense. The help file values seem like they are proper, perhaps the coders messed up and switched these two wonders around? Also, michael's only reduces 3 (2 after communism) unhappy people, contrary to the help file which states 4 (3). Still a superb wonder, but not quite as insane as I once thought with skewed information.
 
I've seen ranges of OCC completion from the 1500's to the 1900's, with the majority in the 1800's.

There is a trick for using caravans&freights for spaceship parts. Start a Wonder, add the freight, then switch the Wonder to a spaceship part. This is the only instance where you can switch from one "type" of thing to another without losing 50% of the shields. In the late game, if the AI is building an "obsolete" 300-shield Wonder like Oracle or GW/GL, I often target them for attack because it is so useful in RushBuying and switching to Modules.

The "classic" OCC Wonder list is Marco Polo, Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Newton and Darwin. Some people like Hanging Gardens for early city celebration under Monarchy. Be aware that getting Pottery skews your commodity list to favor Salt, which is harder to find demand due to the Dye/Copper demand bug. If you are connecting to an AI city on your island/continent this is not very important. I see you also added an early KingRich, also a good idea, particularly if your city site has a majority of water tiles, which one of the 4-special sites in this GOTM did. Other useful Wonders for OCC are Leos for upgrading NONE units and Magellans if the map is large.

You are correct about the help files mistake with Copernicus and Newtons. There are some other omissions, like not listing the terrain requirements for building a HydroPlant. There is a good reference chart for Civ2 City Improvements compiled by Nethog, found here:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pmm1/games/games.html
On Mikes, it starts out as 3, goes down to 2 with Comm, but goes back up to 3 with Theology (or 4 if you never get Comm). Also, a Colosseum will go up from 3 to 4 with Electronics (must be the SuperBowl on TV...).
 
GOTM36 - Shipwrecked Spaniards

"My liege, we have collected the last stragglers from the storm.

What are the losses, Cordoba? Or perhaps I should ask how many
survived?

Better the latter, my lord. Only two groups of Settlers remain,
although we did salvage the majority of our Scrolls of Ancient
Wisdom. Per your orders, we prioritized saving the people and
scrolls first, so we are quite short on foodstuffs and weapons.
All contact has been lost with the ships that broke up on the
reefs. We seem to be stuck here for the duration.

We shall see about that shortly. For the moment, though, our
people need shelter and protection. Survey the area and report
back to me forthwith on good sites for at least one immediate
settlement. I saw something spouting offshore as I landed;
this area may have potential.

Right away, my lord."

GOTM 36 PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:
PHilip of Spain (Yellow=#4)
Deity level (2nd citizen unhappy)
Barbs = Restless Tribes (100g/Ldr, no extra points)
7 random civs (TOP5: #2/Green=Jap; #3/Blue=Viking)
Restarts ON (no Early Conquest)
2 Settlers

Map: Normal size, Islands, Wet&Cool, 3BillionYrs
Draw starting location in MapEdit: Seed=19
(51,53) is Grass 4x: 2xFish, Whale, black Whale-land
(47,55) is 4x: Whale, Fish, Whale-land, Fish-land
(49,59) is 3x: Whale, Whale-land, Fish-land
check HutFinder: no huts nearby

Freebie Starting Techs: Alp, Bro, Cer, Iro, War
(last two good for defence, but no mounted units)
Bro=20shields, War=30Shields
Use CIV2PLAN for potential Tech Paths:
-Early Monarchy, Early Trade:
-----CoL/MON/Cur/TRA/Map/Wri/Mys/Lit/REP/PHI-
-Early Republic, Early Philosophy:
-----CoL/Wri/Lit/REP/Cur/Mys/PHI-TRA/Map/Med/

"Cordoba- your report?

Sorry, my liege. We have been experimenting with using seagulls
for checking out the nearby terrain. They go where we direct
them, but can only bring back information on whether it is land
or sea. We are still working on it.

Very well. What about settlements? This location does not look
too bad.

Sire, my staff has prepared an analysis, focusing on two options
for future development. We have determined that we are on a
small island, despite the line of cliffs we see across the bay
to the southwest. The nearby water has both Whales and Fish,
which could give a boost to an immediate settlement. However,
you may want to consider a potentially better site further to the
south, particularly if you are interested in keeping the people
together in One City as we develop. We have determined three
potential sites, beginning with one in the far distance to the
southeast. Two others are out of sight but we could split the
Settlers into two exploring parties for reconaissance. Here is
a chart of our analysis:
Black-clicking island chart

What is the benefit to keeping everyone together?

Easier management and faster starting development, my lord.

And what is the downside?

Faster advances in the future can be made with multiple
settlements, but significant investment in time and effort is
required to achieve stellar performance. A number of sages from
Apolyton.Net have circulated interesting findings on these
methods that my staff had seen before the shipwreck. But for
the purposes of our immediate needs, may I suggest some further
exploration before we settle down?

Very well, Cordoba. Form your recon parties and see what lies to
the south.

As you command, my lord."

4000bc: heading south
3950bc: TOP5 #5/Cyan=Persia, #6/Orange=Greek, #7/Purple=Sioux
...(Jap, Viking and Greek aggressive; Persia & Sioux moderates)
...(50,56) is hidden Whale(Silk/Wheat)
3900bc: (47,55) 4x is Swamp, 4th special Fish-land
3850bc: (49,59) 3x is Rivered Grass! but no Ocean access;
...pulling back 2nd Settler
3800bc: (46,58) is hidden Fish: rivers attractive but 2 hidden
specials and no Ocean access rules out (49,59)

"My lord, we recommend the northeastern site. The western site
would require much work to develop, while the river site has no
ocean access.

We have wasted some time here, Cordoba. I am not pleased.

My liege, had we found Gold or Gems down there, or a better
river network, our recommendation would have been different.

Good point, Cordoba. Proceed with the construction. And let's
keep everyone together in One City."

3750bc: MADRID (51,53)+2F,3T,3S: start Phalanx
start CodeLaws
3700bc: 1g,2b,5t@2b/10t
3650bc: 2g,4b,5t
...start Roading hidden Whale tile
3600bc: 3g,6b,5t
...Road done
3550bc: 4g,8b,5t
CODE LAWS(white); start Monarchy!

"Cordoba - why all these roads? What about irrigation?

Sire, our current government does not support increased
food from irrigated lands. But roaded fields will give
adequate food and extra trade. We need the trade to keep
up the research rate.

I'm glad we are heading directly for Monarchy. With so
much still unknown, I'm not ready for elections and
representatives just yet.

Yes, sire, and we can support more land and sea units
without disturbing our production rate.

Carry on, Cordoba."

3500bc: 5g,0b,11t/22b
...start Roading 2nd Shielded Grass
3450bc: 6g,2b,11t
...2nd Road done
3400bc: 7g,4b,9t/18b
...Phalanx done, start Warrior; Phalanx goes exploring
...start Mining hidden Whale
3350bc: 8g,6b,9t
3300bc: 9g,8b,9t
...Phalanx exploring river valley
3250bc: 10g,10b,9t
...MADRID FBF
3200bc: 12g,12b,11t/22b
TOP5: #1/White=Celts!
...MADRID size 2, chg to Fish for extra beaker
...Warrior keeps 2nd citizen content, start Temple
(Barb pirates begin...)
3150bc: 14g,15b,8t
MONARCHY(rats); start Currency (delay revolt)
3100bc: 16g,0b,11t@3b/33b
REVOLT: MONARCHY T30%S70%
3050bc: 16g,0b,9t@4b
...Food now +4, 6Trade
3000bc: 18g,4b,9t
...Phalanx returning, Settler still Mining
...Demographics: 1st Land,Lit,Disease,Pollut,LifeExpect,Families,
...3rd in GNP,Mfg Goods,Income
...TOP5: all AI cities size 2

"Well done, Cordoba. Our one city is holding up well against
the other civs, and we are the first to Monarchy! But why did
you grind your teeth when we discovered it a little early?

Sire, I was hoping we would discover it on a Oedo day, so that
we would not lose any gold or beakers during the revolt. It
arrived a day early, so we gained nothing during the change.

And who is this Oedo?

An ancient Greek sage who discovered the four-day government
change pattern. It is in one of those Scrolls of Ancient
Wisdom we consult so often.

I'll have to take a look at that sometime.

My lord, I suggest we take advantage of our salvaged scrolls and
aim directly for getting Trade and MapMaking, so as to get an
early start on Wonder building and overseas trade. This should
bring us extra early gold and beakers, after which we can aim
for Republic to grow our city.

Good plan. I'm setting aside that nice spot south of the city
for a private estate. I've decided to bestow a few titles on
some particularly valuable people. Which would you prefer, a
baronacy or an earldom?

I am honored, my liege."

2950bc: 20g,8b,9t
...Silk appears, chg Fish to Silk: +2F,8T,5S,6b=6t
2900bc: 22g,14b,6t
2850bc: 24g,20b,5t@6b/30b
2800bc: 26g,26b,5t
CURRENCY; start Trade
2750bc: 28g,0b,8t@6b/48b
Temple in MADRID
2700bc: 29g,6b,8t
2650bc: 30g,12b,8t
2600bc: 31g,18b,8t
...MADRID FBF, 2nd Warrior done, start Legion for caravan
2550bc: 33g,25b,7t@7b
...MADRID size 3, need 60%Lux for WL
TOP5: Cardiff only size 3 AI city

"Humor me a little, Cordoba. Why were you asking about
celebrations?

Sire, a city of three or more companies of citizens that is
in celebration during Monarchy can elevate its trade to the
level of a Republic. But we have too little base trade, and
no Markets to multiply any Luxuries we might dispense.

I'll keep that in mind."

2500bc: 35g,32b,7t
2450bc: 37g,39b,7t
2400bc: 39g,46b,7t
...chg T70%S30%
TRADE(white); start Writing
2350bc: 45g,0b,20t@3b/60b
Supplies: HIDES, Beads, Dye!
...keep T70S30 while RBing caravans
...chg worker on Fish to irrig GS
...PRB 3r 11g

"Cordoba, why were you so excited to discover we could supply
Hides?

My lord, Hides do not run out when you build a caravan. And
early in the game there is usually a lot of demand for Hides.

I see you have ordered the research rate slowed. Why is that?

Sire, we are all alone on this small island. No neighbors have
been sighted in the last 33 days. Our analysis indicates that
they may be further away than we can contact quickly. However,
the discovery of Trade brings with it the opportunity to build
a special Wonder called Marco Polo's Embassy, which allows us
to directly contact all other civilizations. Mr. Polo is also
a very good intelligence agent, and we should be able to use
his information to trade technologies and maps to our advantage.

But why slow the research rate?

Sire, we can Rush-Buy caravans at the rate of one row of shields
per day, but we need more gold income to keep it up. I am
expecting that the technologies we reap from the Embassy will
offset those we do not discover ourselves while we are building.

Interesting strategy. Keep me informed.

Yes, my liege."

2300bc: 39g,3b,20t
...PRB 4r 8g, chg GS to Fish
2250bc: 37g,6b,20t
1st caravan: Dye!
2200bc: 43g,9b,20t
...chg Fish to GS
2150bc: 48g,12b,20t
...PRB 1r 8g
2100bc: 45g,15b,20t
...PRB 2r 8g
2050bc: 42g,18b,20t
...PRB 3r 8g
2000bc: 39g,21b,20t
...PRB 4r 8g, chg GS to Fish
1950bc: 37g,24b,20t
2nd caravan: Wine!
1900bc: 43g,27b,20t
...MADRID FBF
Macaulay LARGEST: #7=Spanish
POP>100K
1850bc: 50g,30b,20t
...MADRID size 4,+4F
...PRB continues
1800bc: 49g,33b,20t
1750bc: 48g,36b,20t
1700bc: 47g,39b,20t
1650bc: 46g,42b,20t
3rd caravan: Beads
1600bc: 53g,45b,19t/55b
1550bc: 60g,48b,19t
1500bc: 59g,51b,19t
...chg GS to ocean for extra beaker
WRITING; start Literacy
1450bc: 58g,0b,18t@4b/72b
...chg Ocean back to GS
1400bc: 54g,3b,24t@3b
...chg GS back to Ocean
1350bc: 53g,7b,18t
4th caravan: Hides
1300bc: 60g,11b,18t
...(build an extra to keep the Dye!)
1250bc: 67g,14b,22t@3b/66t
...PRB 1r-3r
1200bc: 16g,17b,22t
...PRB 4r
...MADRID FBF
1150bc: 15g,21b,17t@4b
...MADRID size 5,+5F
...move 2x GS to Ocean
5th caravan: Food (what happened to Hides?)
1100bc: 24g,25b,17t
...Supplies now (Bead)(Dye)(Wine), so hold Hides
...start Marco Polo, 4x caravans (Bead/Dye/Wine freed!)
MARCO POLO IN MADRID!

"Fascinating reports, Cordoba. This man is worth his weight
in gold. Why did you chuckle when he announced that compared
to the other civs, we are "pathetic"? I was about to order
his head loosed!

Sire, a "pathetic" civ should benefit from the sympathy of the
other civs in securing alliances. These can then be milked
for technologies and gold.

Ah, I see. Is it time to start the discussions? Going into
this with so much information seems almost unsporting.

That's the idea, sire."
 
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