Peloponnesian War Scenario -- Phase Two

Maybe you should do is what the LOTM team has been doing - start a new thread and sum everything up which has been done and decided, and what needs to be done. 48 pages is a lot, especially when it seems no end is in sight...

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These were the words of Mongoloid Cow which persuaded me to end that 48-page mixture of spam and progress of a thread, and start fresh.

Basically, we're just about ready for a beta.

Units- Soon to be posted by Kryten (Well, that's wha he said a week ago.)
Map- Done. Just need to decide on the various methods of spelling. (Greek, Italian, English... )
Graphics- The only thing we really need is the next 12 wondersplashes from Unexisted, and one last leaderhead from him. Otherwise, done.
Wonder Effects- Almost all done.

Just about there.

Anyways,
here's thread one.

I again vote for traditional anglicized names.

Did you see the leaderheads I posted from Kryten's scenario (Alexander the Great).

Anyway, I posted in the last thread about CDG, so don't miss that (you should mention the new thread in the old thread ).

How are you on techs? I think another tech should be "Treachery". This would allow all the spy stuff, like propognda, looking in a city while at war, stealing plans, etc.

Many of these kinds of things were done by treachery. Many cities would have disloyal people who would open the gates forthe oposing army. Sometimes traitors would give important information away to the enemy. Etc, etc, etc.

Athenian Democracy shouldn't be immune to propoganda, but there should be buildings to reduce its effectiveness (I think that's one of the editor options). I would also consider reducing the cost to do so.

I'll vote for the first time for traditional Anglicised names too (sounds better)

Although I have a liking for the Greek spellings, I don't think anyone will go for Athenai, Thivai, Korinthos. I think English spellings will at least be acceptable to all.
I think Louis is on to something. Treachery and propaganda were a large part of the Spartan war strategy. Athenian too for that matter. If anything though the Delian League should more suceptible to propaganda than the Peloponesians. The Spartans, at least early on were perceived as the "liberators of Greece" and most of Athens allies were willing enough to revolt, given a reasonable chance of success. The least likely cities to revolt were those where Athens had installed democratic governments (Samos). So for an aniti-propaganda building, how about "Popular Assembly". Every city in Attica should have one, other than that I think they should be relatively expensive to build. If the Spartans needed something similar then "Oligarchic Chambers", or "Harmost Quarters" or some such. Basically this was a war of oligarchies vs imperial democracy. Harmosts were the governors that Sparta installed at revolted cities.
If treachery is a tech though I think it should be relatively early on the tree. It really was already available. The "researching" would just represent the forming of policy and establishing of contacts.

Joining the discussion for this extremely interesting scenario rather late and being all too busy to skim through 48 (!) pages in the other thread, I might sound redundand in a point or two I am making but... ok, here it goes.

- Are you including the Ifikratian hoplites (a pikeman/hoplite/peltast hybrid, used as marines mostly) in the mod?

- Are you planning on making Persia a faction? And if yes, how shall it be implemented?

- What is the timespan/turns/etc?

- What role do you plan to give to the kingdom of Macedon and to the Thessalon Koenon?

- Have you included the Elefsinia Mystiria as a wonder or small wonder?

- Shall you use the locked alliance feature from C3C (probably you will... ok, consider this question just asking for a confirmation for the obvious).

- Shall you have Skythian mercenaries for Athens (widely used at the time) and Thracian for Athens and everybody else?

- How are you going to represent the supremacy of the Athenian Navy? Only quantity-wise?

Also, I would like to add my vote to the (correct) Greek spelling of the names - after all, it is a Greek mod

Thank you and keep up the good work.

Okay, so let's keep that in mind for when we do techs. Treachery...So far, we're pretty much waiting on Kryten to release those units before we do tech tree...Personally, I think the Beta shoul have no techs, for the sole purpose so that Beta Testers can contribute which techs should go where.

- Are you including the Ifikratian hoplites (a pikeman/hoplite/peltast hybrid, used as marines mostly) in the mod?

- Are you planning on making Persia a faction? And if yes, how shall it be implemented?

- What is the timespan/turns/etc?

- What role do you plan to give to the kingdom of Macedon and to the Thessalon Koenon?

- Have you included the Elefsinia Mystiria as a wonder or small wonder?

- Shall you use the locked alliance feature from C3C (probably you will... ok, consider this question just asking for a confirmation for the obvious).

- Shall you have Skythian mercenaries for Athens (widely used at the time) and Thracian for Athens and everybody else?

- How are you going to represent the supremacy of the Athenian Navy? Only quantity-wise?

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-Interesting idea, those hoplites...Let's get Xen and Kryten's input first.

-Yes, Persia will be there, but they won't have a lot of coastal cities, so they won't be able to make any real navy or contribution of troops.

-324 turns

-Macedon will just kinda...be there. I'm not sure of it's task yet. We came up with one way to implement them, but I forget.

-And the Elefsinia Mystirisa is???

-Locked Alliances are definately to be used!

-Scythian Mercenaries...I like the idea, but let's get our two history buffs in here.

-Athens will start off with a big navy, and I think their navy will have +1 hp or something...

Thank you and keep up the good work.

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Thank you for your support!

The "Elefsinia Mystirisa" must be the Eleusinian Mysteries. Looks like transliterated Modern Greek. It was an esoteric cult based in Eleusis (western Attica), and had quite some importance during much of Antiquity. Don't think we've mentioned them in the old thread, I don't see any obvious relevant way of implementing them. We could do without yet another Great Wonder thrown in for no other reason than it 'ought' to be in, methinks, so unless someone can think of a a good reason why it should be in and what it should do, I suggest we leave it out.

Scythian Mercenaries? Why not; a light infantry unit for the Athenians. Assuming there's decent graphics.

@Ad Hominem

some comments from the almighty Xen j/k...sort of...

on the Ifiriktrian Hoplites- I wouldnt mind haveing them as marines at all really, though I think the current Athenian Marine made by Kryten will surfice in full , makeing a Ifriktrian would take a while longer me thinks...

Is there any generic Marine?

There are some one tile islands nearby Athens, that definately could be built on, and be impossible to capture.

Alrighty, lots of feedback... seems you guys actually are doing some serious work on this...

Xen ...allmighty

Athenian marine? Does it look anywhere close to this



(hope the image displays correctly...)

If it does, it could be named Ifikratian hoplite for the Athenians. After all, those were the "marines" in the relevant timeframe for Athena.

TLC

Righto. The E.M. (the funny spelling is due to me being Greek and my transcriptions seem kinda funny from time to time) can be used in several interesting ways - none of them comes to my mind right now
I am sure the scenario can do without it, though.

As for the Skythian mercs, usually they were foot archers in the service of the Demos of Athens, and sometimes even the (traditional) horse archers. At one point as much as 1.200 Skythians were employed by Athens during the Peloponesian war.

The Thracian peltasts were of even greater importance (employed by all sides during the war) and also some other notable mercenaries of the times are the Cretan Archers (of the Alexander's campaign fame).

Amenhotep7

Thanks for the replies. As for the time span of the scenario, do you plan on getting it up (including?) the Korinthian war or even span it up to the timeframe of the "rise of Macedon"?

Also, since the Persian won't be able to actually do much, how are you going to represent the fact that the Persian gold (along with the outcome of the Siclian expedition) decided the war?

The Persians can still trade with others, because they have access to luxuries and resources.

No, the game will end at the time the Peloponnesian War ended. What is that? c.304 bc?

404 BC. But I think we could let it run till 400 or so - some extra time, so people don't end up failing to capture Athens because they were one month slower than Lysander or something like that.

Have we discussed victory conditions? I assume we allow Conquest, and have VPLs to determine a winner at scen's end, but are there any other sensible options=

No, you'd play as Athens or Sparta, so you must conquer one side...But with Conquest victory, you need to go after everyone...VP locations, anybody?

No, you'd play as Athens or Sparta, so you must conquer one side...But with Conquest victory, you need to go after everyone...VP locations, anybody?

VPLs=Victory Point Locations. I took for granted we'd have such at important places, and use them for tie-breaker if no-one's achieved some other kind of victory by scen's end.

Is there any way of making different VPLs be worth different amounts of points/turn?

I'm not so sure...I'll play around with the editor later, and see...I don't think so, tho.

I looked, but couldn't find where the tool was to set VP points!

Scenario Properties, the 'Victory Points Limits' tab.

There doesn't appear to be any way to differentiate between various VPLs, but you can set VP rewards for capturing cities, killing units etc.

Edit: Added missing words.

O! Well then maybe they have to win something like 20000 VP or something.