Term 2 - Foreign Affairs Ministry - Making more friends

Welcome to the Foreign Affairs Ministry for Term 2! Here's where all matters involving contacts, treaties, war declarations, embassies, etc. should be brought up for discussion. Hopefully we'll have a productive term and make some more contacts.

FA Minister: Bootstoots (currently minister-elect)
FA Deputy: Furiey

NOTE: Term 2 will not start until 0:00 GMT on 1 February.

Chance of war:

Babylon - 2
Russia - 1
India - 1
Germany - (unmet)

Key:
5 - At war
4 - War is almost certain and imminent
3 - High risk of war
2 - Moderate risk of war
1 - Low risk of war
0 - Minimal risk of war

So nice of you to post instructions already. Didn't realize it was term 2 already. My how time flies when you're having fun! Those are some mighty fine and detailed instructions you posted there. I'm sure you took the time to foster citizen discussion and take a poll or two before deciding which demands we should or should not cave in to.

BTW, didn't you run for the judiciary, too? Are you planning on being both FA Minister and a justice?

Originally posted by donsig
So nice of you to post instructions already. Didn't realize it was term 2 already. My how time flies when you're having fun! Those are some mighty fine and detailed instructions you posted there. I'm sure you took the time to foster citizen discussion and take a poll or two before deciding which demands we should or should not cave in to.

BTW, didn't you run for the judiciary, too? Are you planning on being both FA Minister and a justice?

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Those instructions do not take effect until Term 2 begins in mid-chat. And I was under the impression that detailed instructions are a good thing, and yes I do plan on bringing up tribute demands for discussion. I do not understand, however, why posting no instructions on tribute and leaving it up to the whim of the DP does not draw criticism from you, whereas posting detailed instructions that include precisely what to do in the case of a tribute demand draws fire, when I am merely acting in the capacity of my future office. And, if you look at the judicial election thread, you'll find that I withdrew from that election a few minutes before it closed to take on the FA role.

And donsig, perhaps you could be a bit less confrontational in these types of situations; it would get your point across just as well.

Mind if I torch my cubicle? I'll be gone shortly...

Originally posted by Bootstoots
Those instructions do not take effect until Term 2 begins in mid-chat. And I was under the impression that detailed instructions are a good thing, and yes I do plan on bringing up tribute demands for discussion. I do not understand, however, why posting no instructions on tribute and leaving it up to the whim of the DP does not draw criticism from you, whereas posting detailed instructions that include precisely what to do in the case of a tribute demand draws fire, when I am merely acting in the capacity of my future office. And, if you look at the judicial election thread, you'll find that I withdrew from that election a few minutes before it closed to take on the FA role.

And donsig, perhaps you could be a bit less confrontational in these types of situations; it would get your point across just as well.

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Any instruction that is not based on citizen input is a bad instruction regardless of how detailed it is. As for *leaving it up to the whim of the DP* that does not have to be done if there is not game play session twenty seconds after the term starts! If you want me to be less confrontational then start using some common sense and adhere to the rules we agreed upon!

I'm glad you pointed out that you withdrew from the Judicial election while it was still in progress. Your actions highlight the type of mind est I find most troubling in our leaders. Let me ask you a question bootstoots. In a time when our ruleset is causing great havoc in the demogame, a situation where the judiciary can be of the utmost help in moving the game along, do you relinquish a possible spot on the judicary in favor of FA Minsiter?

Let me tell you why I think you did that. It is simply because judicial members cannot post game play instructions but the FA Minister can. The fact that you posted instructions already - even before it is term two - tells me that you're more interested in seeing that your agenda is carried out than in determining the *will of the people* and seeing it is carried out. Teh instructions you posted are yours and yours alone. Your mindset is to make the instructions you want and post them. This is the same mindset of those who want spot votes in the chat. They want things done their way regardless of what those not there may or may not want. You immediate posting of instructions combined with the President's dismissal of legally posted slider settings last game play session (at the behest of those at the chat) show beyond a doubt that the focus of this demogame is moving away from the forums.

Drat, I was hopping that I could be deputy in this office incase I dont get into the judicary

Originally posted by donsig


Any instruction that is not based on citizen input is a bad instruction regardless of how detailed it is. As for *leaving it up to the whim of the DP* that does not have to be done if there is not game play session twenty seconds after the term starts! If you want me to be less confrontational then start using some common sense and adhere to the rules we agreed upon!

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So, I assume that instructions like SaaM's "Make more friends" posts are bad because he never posted discussion or polls about whether we should make more friends.

I'm glad you pointed out that you withdrew from the Judicial election while it was still in progress. Your actions highlight the type of mind est I find most troubling in our leaders. Let me ask you a question bootstoots. In a time when our ruleset is causing great havoc in the demogame, a situation where the judiciary can be of the utmost help in moving the game along, do you relinquish a possible spot on the judicary in favor of FA Minsiter?

Let me tell you why I think you did that. It is simply because judicial members cannot post game play instructions but the FA Minister can. The fact that you posted instructions already - even before it is term two - tells me that you're more interested in seeing that your agenda is carried out than in determining the *will of the people* and seeing it is carried out. Teh instructions you posted are yours and yours alone. Your mindset is to make the instructions you want and post them. This is the same mindset of those who want spot votes in the chat. They want things done their way regardless of what those not there may or may not want. You immediate posting of instructions combined with the President's dismissal of legally posted slider settings last game play session (at the behest of those at the chat) show beyond a doubt that the focus of this demogame is moving away from the forums.

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I ran for both positions undecided as to which one I would pick if I were to win both of them. Until only around 24 hours ago I was still undecided. But as I thought more and more about it, I realized that I needed a break from the Judiciary. This DG has been beset from day one by a huge amount of litigation and argument. I remembered that I liked being the FA leader last DG; it was a good office that I enjoyed and I felt that I was able to contribute much to the DG while in that capacity. Therefore, I chose FA over the judiciary, confident that capable leaders like ravensfire that had been elected could do the job in my absence. Instruction posting has little to do with it, except that I know that my instructions from the past have been referenced as good instructions, instructions that allow the DP some room to manoever but give them a fair sense of direction as well. I posted instructions from the first minute so that, in the event that zorven wanted to play the chat further, he would have some guidance, at least from the FA department. Zorven himself stated that he may not be able to continue the chat because of a lack of instructions by the new leaders, so I posted mine to help him out and maybe enable him to hold a new chat. I had no time to both file instructions and try to divine the will of the people regarding such things as tribute demands. You've seen that I posted a thread on tribute demands; I would have done that whether CC'd by you or not because I want citizen direction on this issue. Trust me, donsig, this is not about power. This is about enjoyment of the democracy game.

SAAM's instructions were bad not only because they are not backed by discussion or polls but also because they were useless.

Yes, this is about enjoying the democracy game. My whole point is that it would be just a tad more enjoyable for most of us if we could actually play the game! By minimizing the impact of those of us who are not leaders and / or who cannot attend the chat, you minimize our ability to participate and play the game!

Originally posted by donsig
Yes, this is about enjoying the democracy game. My whole point is that it would be just a tad more enjoyable for most of us if we could actually play the game! By minimizing the impact of those of us who are not leaders and / or who cannot attend the chat, you minimize our ability to participate and play the game!

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There is unfortunately little I (or anybody else) can do to allow you to participate in the chat of January 31/February 1, but after that, if you see anywhere relating to FA that you want discussed, feel free to bring it up and I will post a thread on it, followed by a poll if necessary. I hope this helps regarding your concerns that you will not be able to play the game, at least from the FA angle.

Originally posted by donsig
SAAM's instructions were bad not only because they are not backed by discussion or polls but also because they were useless.

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Agreed! But what else was there to do? W are not in any wars, there are no wars (that we know of going on around us. That is the limit of this department until more people are known. Friendmaking! We're the hookey online dating service.

Plus, this is the exact type of squabbling which has me disgusted. All boots did was post instructions for a chat that fell under both juristictions. My instructions (however useless they may be) were there as were his, and they both agreed. It was not like boots posted to declare war on anyone.

SaaM
Who wonders if he should just torch the whole dam place...

It looks like nothing will happen next turnchat in the way of gameplay, so it doesn't matter at all that I posted instructions in the first place.

In the beginning, there was not much to do other than make friends. The situation is changing now – we will discover Writing in 3 turns and many more things will become possible. I was therefore pleased to see that Boots’ instructions started to take account of this and that associated discussion was started in the forum.

@Bootstoots - Perhaps we also need to start a thread discussing the formation of embassies as we’ll be able to build them soon? I can start a thread if you wish asking for views.

If you'd like to post a thread discussing embassies, it's perfectly fine by me. However, I think that the consensus will be not to build them until we need them.

Quite possibly - but then you can't get moaned at for saying not to build them!

Originally posted by bootstoots:

Territory incursions: Please ask all nations that station troops in our territory to withdraw them when their troops appear in our territory. You may repeat this at intervals of 2 to 3 turns as necessary. Do not demand that any nations move troops or declare war. If what appears to be a possible invasion force arrives near a city, please stop the chat and we can determine what to do in the forums.
New contacts: It is not mandatory that the chat be stopped if we make a new contact. I would recommend, however, that the chat be stopped if a new contact provides a good trading possibility.

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Might we discuss this a bit?

I'm not so sure that a blanket order to ask foreign troops be withdrawn is a good idea. Will we always know if such a request will NOT lead to war? Also, would such a request ever allow foreign units to jump to the *other side* of our borders thereby making their passage through our lands swifter? Finally, what effect does such a request have on our relations with other nations?

We do know whether the request will or will not lead to war. Those instructions specifically say that any demand to withdraw where we threaten war is not allowed, and I'm positive that requests do not cause them to declare war. However, I will bring this up for discussion in the citizens forum.

Boots:

Shoulda asked earlier, but is the FA Ministry is ok with my proposed contact trades?

Sounds fine by me.

Just wanted to be sure. Thanks.