Let's fix the Judiciary Elections

Bill_in_PDX

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No, I don't mean "fix" as in the way results have been skewed and fixed the last two terms. I mean fix it so it works, and reflects the votes of the people.

Our current "one election" process is supposedly intended to ensure we get the three best folks elected to the bench. This is clearly not occuring, and in fact both elections (and follow on elections, and withdrawls, and Judicial Reviews by the very group in question) under this method could be generously described as flawed. They could also be accurately described as ripe for fraud.

What is happening is that people are using the bulk elections approach as a back up in case they lose the election they really want to run in. This happened twice this term alone.

In this case, and individual won the presidency, who would have won a position on the Court, and is attempting to resign the position while maintaining the right to now handpick via appointment their replacement. Thanks to the Election Office ruling that people who are no longer in the election can still win, that President now has the right to appoint two people, and hold the majority vote of the Court.

I am not saying that Zorven is a bad person, or has bad intentions. I am definately saying that allowing individuals to have that much power is not the intention of our executive, judicial, legislative form of government.

Speaking of too much power, we also have a Elections Office that does not answer to the people at all, for any decision. This is clearly unconstitutional.

It is an embarrassment to our nation, and a diservice to the people of Fanatika that this continues on. That process is hardly one that we should endorse.

What is the solution and how hard is it too impliment?

I propose the following:

1) The judiciary election is split into two elections. One for CJ, and one for the two AJ's.

2) Anyone accepting nominations in the Judiciary elections cannot run run in a legislative or executive branch election.

Yes, we would have to change laws for this, it is intended to get a discussion going, so please don't post, "no" , you can't do that, it is unconstitutional.

We, the people, not a select few who steer the government, control both our nation, and our laws, and we can do whatever the heck we want to do. The government's job is to impliment what we want. So if enough people are sick of the legal b******t going on, and are willing to get behind a solution (not even my solution, just a solution that addresses the clear disaster that is our law on judical elections), we can fix the problem.

The last step, #2 above, is quite harsh, I hear the chorus of NO NO NO already as I type this. However, it is a sure way to make certain that the folks running for judiciary are not just doing it so they have something to fall back on when they lose their other election.

We deserve better Justices than that.
 
We tried seperate CJ and AJ elections last time and a tie was the problem. This time it was withdrawals. No matter how we structure these elections we can have ties and withdrawals. We can certainly reduce the latter by limiting citizens to running in one election period - no matter what branch.
 
The tie not being dealt with apporpriately was the problem, not the election itself.

The real problem with the Term One election was all the shenanigans that followed on.
 
Citizens,

I hate to derail this, but if you'll cast your virtual eyes here, you might find some interesting stuff.

Translation - there is already a proposal that has good support out there, it just needs someone to start pushing it.

-- Ravensfire
 
Citizens,

I divert your eyes back to this discussion, and the point of it being that allowing people to use the judicial elections as a "fall back" position in case they lose their other election is still just as wrong, no matter how many different multi-vote methods those who want the status quo advocate.
 
Actually, I would be fine with limiting a citizen to run in only one election per term.
 
To refresh everyone memories, a full proposal to revamp the election process related to the Judiciary (which is the subject of this thread), has been developed. Strong citizen support for the technique behind this proposal has already been demonstrated through a poll.

Should this proposal be adopted, or should the previously expressed desires of the people be disregarded and a new poll to determine the same information be conducted?

Proposal:
Code:
III. Polling
    1. Judiciary exceptions:
      i. There shall be only 1 multi-select poll for the Judiciary branch.
        a. This poll will list all the candidates and instruct the citizens that
           only the recipients of the three highest vote totals will be elected.
      ii. The nominee with the most votes shall be the Chief Justice.
        a. Should a tie exist for 1st, the nominees tied for that 
           position shall be listed in a poll to determine who shall be
           the Chief Justice. This poll shall last for 2 days.  The person
           receiving the 2nd most votes in the poll if there are two
           candidates tied shall be an Associate Justice.  If there are
           three or more candidates tied, the 2nd and 3rd place shall
           be Associate Justices.
      iii. The nominees with the 2nd and 3rd most votes shall be the Associate 
           Justices, unless a tie existed for 1st most votes.  If there
           are two tied for 1st, the 3rd place from the original multi
           choice poll shall be Associate Justice.  If three or more tie
           for 1st in the multi-choice poll, the associate justices shall
           be determined as specified in foregoing section 1.ii.a.
      iv. Should a tie exist for either Associate Justice position, where 
           there are more candidates tied than positions available, a run-off 
           poll shall be posted.  This poll shall list only the tied candidates 
           and the number of positions available. This poll shall be a single-
           select poll (standard format), and be open for 24 hours. The 
           candidate(s) with the most votes shall be elected to the position(s).  
           This poll shall run for 2 days.

    2. At-Large Governors
      i. There shall be only 1 multi-select poll for all At-Large Governor
         positions.
        a. This poll will list all the candidates and instruct the citizens that
           only the recipients of the X highest vote totals will be elected,
           where X is the number of At-Large Governor positions for the election
           cycle.
      ii. The top X candidates, where X is the number of At-Large Governor 
          positions for the election cycle, shall be the At-Large Governors
      iii. Should a tie exist between two or more citizens for the final 
           At-Large Governor position, a run-off poll listing only those
           citizens shall be posted.  This poll shall last for 2 days.
 
I agree with Ravensfire on this point. This issue has been discussed and we have a proposal ready that just needs to be polled. Lets poll it and then discuss Bill_in_PDX's other issue of running in more than one election.
 
Yeah, let's poll that proposal so I can vote *NO*. We need to restrict citizens to running in only one election and we need to get rid of the run-off elections. Let the incoming president break the ties and be done with it. Anyone remember the science leader race between Strider and myself a few DGs back? The run-off ended in a tie so we had to have another run-off.

I'm against multi-choice polls for elections since we cannot limit the choices to the number of offices being elected. Now, if you all wanted to do away with secret ballots then we could ensure that only X candidates are voted for when there are X offices being filled.
 
The only reason the proposal from the other thread (thanks Ravensfire) has not been put forward is that it was near the end of the term and no time to complete before the elections started, which would have resulted in yet another controversy.

The next step is a judicial review of the proposed legislation.
 
Originally posted by donsig
I'm against multi-choice polls for elections since we cannot limit the choices to the number of offices being elected. Now, if you all wanted to do away with secret ballots then we could ensure that only X candidates are voted for when there are X offices being filled.

Hi. I thought we had that before... Where is the problem when more votes can be cast than the number of offices?

Am I correct that there are two issues?

1. How to elect CJ and AJs (multiple choice, several polls, ...)

2. What to do in case of withdrawals etc.

?

EDIT: and if one can run for several offices...
 
Originally posted by dreiche2


Hi. I thought we had that before... Where is the problem when more votes can be cast than the number of offices?

Am I correct that there are two issues?

1. How to elect CJ and AJs (multiple choice, several polls, ...)

2. What to do in case of withdrawals etc.

?

EDIT: and if one can run for several offices...

dreiches, for the specifics of your first question, head to the thread where this was discussed earlier (see the link in my earlier post). Basically, the more people you vote for, the more diluted your vote becomes. If you vote for everyone, you essentially gave your support to no-one.

Withdrawals - not getting into that one yet! I would suggest that we could request the Election Office to give clear procedures for withdrawing from a race and the impact it has.

Running for multiple offices - in this DG, each person is allowed to run for one office per branch max. In previous demogames, there were no such limits. Quite literally, a citizen could run for EVERY office at the same time. Look through the archived forums for the DG3 main forum, and look at the election reults.

-- Ravensfire
 
Actually, in DG2, and I believe the end of DG1, the rule was a max of two offices ran for, and only one if you currently held an elected position.

That worked pretty well. I agree with donsig. One election per citizen is even better.
 
Ravensfire: em, maybe I did not make myself clear.

about the multiple-choice election:

Yes, I know that discussion, I took part in it myself. What I wanted to say is: I don't see the problem with your vote becoming more diluted when voting for more persons (for the reasons others gave in the discussion)...

Withdrawals: Don't the procedures regarding this need to be written down in a law (maybe after the rest is done)?

Running for multiple offices: I know how it is handled at the moment, what I wanted to say is that (obviously) there are citizens that want to change the current procedures.

Well, basically I just wanted to clarify (also for myself) that there are severel different issues.. and we could handle them seperately, e.g. starting with the election procedure..

maybe it was too obvious what I said so I got everyone confused...
 
Originally posted by DaveShack

The next step is a judicial review of the proposed legislation.

The request has been posted.
 
Amendment poll has been posted here.

-- Ravensfire, Chief Justice of Fanatica
 
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