GOTM 28 Spoiler 2 - End Of Middle Ages, All Contacts, Full World Map

This is the Second spoiler thread for Game Of The Month 28.

PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE QUALIFICATIONS TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS SPOILER, AND TO WHAT CAN BE POSTED IN THIS SPOILER!

Qualifications for participation:

1. You must have reached the end of the middle ages in terms of research.
2. You must have visibility of the all major continents.
3. You must have contact with all other civs (or their remains).

WHAT CAN AND CANNOT BE POSTED IN THE SPOILERS:
Not an exhaustive list - please use your common sense!

You CAN post screenshots, provided that these screenshots DO NOT show any resources that require an industrial age or modern age tech (eg no coal please!)


We really enjoyed reading the discussions in the first spoiler - the strategies used to handle an aggressive Xerxes. Lets see how you all got on in the middle ages, as you found out more about your world.

Middle Ages

With the entry into the Middle Ages the Indian begin to glimpse the great future that may unfold for them if they would sit still and listen to the wind. A Golden Age awaits, however, the threat from the south still looms and contacts over the water have been made (see previous spoiler for dates) – Rome and Carthage are willing to trade and we enjoy good relations although a Roman town to the NW beside the strange grey beasts that grow ivory causes some concern.

Our Iron supply is connected in 260AD and the following decade sees the people of Sidon (W of Madras and S of Bombay) cast off their oppressors and join the Indian Empire… Much joy and jubilation is heard in the streets.

Brave sailors decide to find rumoured peoples elsewhere and in 330AD a galley sets off into the east but is heard from no more…

Heady discussions with Sidon coffee results in talk of a new form of governing and it is with great joy and jubilation that the Indian people embrace Monarchy in 350.

Such is the happiness of the people that they toil mightily in Delhi to begin the Hanging Gardens in 360 (15 turns).

In 460 a galley leaves the Roman coast behind and sets off to follow the sun and it too is heard from no more…

Strife breaks out between our neighbours as neoCarthage declares war on Rome but my people are contemplating the beauty of the Hanging Gardens (500AD).

Surely it is the beauty of Delhi and the contemplative life that encourages the citizens of Pisae to place their governor in the stocks, raid the armoury and bring their lands to my throne in 580AD. It is this unity of our peoples that begins to solve the riddle of the great grey beasts. The people of the NW suggest that the beasts can be tamed as beasts of toil and possibly… no, that is too absurd.

The First Roman War (600 - 1070)

In 600 Feudalism is discovered and in 620AD Chivalry is discovered. The absurd idea is put to the test and War Elephant production begins. In that decade we join neoCarthage in an alliance against Rome.

Preparations begin as Delhi trains up the 1st War Elephant and another gallant galley heads into the West and again, it is presumed lost. Engineering (700) and Theology (740) are discovered and Delhi begins the Sistine Chapel.

In 760AD our first expeditionary force lands in Roman lands with the objective of liberating Leptis Minor from the Roman tyranny. Through the judicious use of Persian Mercenaries our glorious armies liberate Leptis Minor in 800 (walls are rushed). Nothing further happens in this theatre until peace is signed in 1070AD.

The Second Persian War (810 - 1020)

To the south, Persian trespassing enflames the passions of my people. Nine War Elephants and Persian Mercenaries assemble in Sidon. War is declared in 810AD and War elephants clear the Persian border guards and India enters a Golden Age! Indian forces swarm towards Pasgardae. Sistine Chapel in 13 turns (+125gpt)!

Invention (820) is discovered and a Temple is rushed in Leptis Minor for 116gp.

Persian counter attacks on Sidon fail (850) but losses outside of Pasagardae result in the attack being put on hold. Persian naval victories begin to cause concern. A lone galley sails into the east from southern Persia and spots a pinkish border. Contact cannot yet be made.

A brave galley finally makes contact with Nidaros (860) and immediately an Embassy is established… (India:705; Persia: 531; neoCarthage: 448; Rome: 419; Vikings: 360).

In 870 Pasargadae falls! We control sun Tzu’s Art of War. In 910 Gunpowder is discovered. Tarsus falls and the Great Leader Chandragupta, leader of elephants, arises from the dust of the battle! Tarsus is renamed by Chandragupta’s troops in his honour. Great debate rages in the throne room - rush Sistine Chapel with three turns left or build an Army? A War Elephant Army is formed in the newly christened (oops) city of Chandragupta.

Embassies are established immediately upon contact with Greece and Germany.

930AD… A bitter sweet year. Chandragupta and his War Elephants take Arbela and Persia’s sole source of Iron but Greece finishes Sistine Chapel beating Delhi by one turn! No other advances or wonders are available except for Heroic Epic at a loss of 385 shields.

In 950AD an Embassy established in Bursa… the lone island city of the Ottomans! (India: 746; Persia: 541; Germany: 538; Greece: 520; neoCarthage: 457; Rome: 431; Vikings: 371; Ottomans: 268).

With the discovery of Education in 960 rendering the Great Library obsolete, the unfortunate team of alchemists all suddenly experienced a fatal lab explosion. Chemistry in 11 with +25gpt.
Persopolis attacked! But the inexhaustible supply of pikemen results in a draw with a redlined veteran pikemen holding out.

In 970AD Chandragupta reenters the fray but War elephants are pulled back to refit. But Pasagardae switches allegiance (990) and war weary War Elephants retake the city… if it did not house Sun Tzu’s it would have been raised! Chemistry is discovered.

1010AD Golden Age ends (culture at 9 300+).

The entire Persian army must be in Persopolis and elephants crash fruitlessly against its walls Peace is signed with Persia (1020) while the printing press is discovered… rejoicing in the streets!

Republican Commerce (1060 - 1390)

However, the rejoicing results in a loosing of morals and a Republic is declared (1060).

The advent of Republicanism ideals results in a realisation of the power of trade. Babylon contacts us and trades contact with the Keltoi and 19 gp for neoCarthage (1080). The following decade we trade everybody for all of their dosh for almost every contact and trade printing press to Germany for 18gpt.

Music theory in 6 turns (1100) and in 1130 we trade chemistry to Greece for 66gp & 36gpt but they won’t trade astronomy except for over 1800 gp. Music theory discovered… Astronomy in 5 turns… Bombay switches from Palace to JS Bach’s (1160). In 1190AD we trade 890gp for Banking with Babylon. Germany builds JS Bach’s (1200); Bombay switches to Palace. Astronomy discovered in 1210… Democracy in 7 turns… Bombay switches to Copernicus’.

Second Roman War (1255 - 1400)

In 1255 Rome trespasses and declares war. neoCarthage joins us in alliance against Rome for Chemistry.

Democracy discovered 1260… research Free Artistry in 5 turns. Persopolis beats us to Copernicus’ by one turn 1280 and Bombay switches to Palace, again. A Roman Army is destroyed outside of Rome.

Physics in 8 turns… Bombay switches to Shakespeare’s at the cost of 43 shields (1285).

In 1300AD our armies sever Rome’s iron supply and Bombay begins building Magellan’s voyage.

With the discovery of Physics we sell it to everybody:
- to Greece for a RoP, incense, world map, 65gp & 87gpt
- to Babylon for 167gp & world map
- to Germany for world map, 94gp & 33gpt
- to Keltoi for world map, silks, 52gp & 21gpt
- to Vikings for world map, 31gp & 4gpt (they are at war with the Keltoi)
- to Persia for world map, 105gp & 29gpt
- to neoCarthage for 102gp & 4gpt
Gift education to Ottomans whereupon Sulyeman exclaims: “How did you know it was my birthday?” I guess we have the same day (February 3rd)…
Total trades: Cash: 4 176 (616gp & 178gpt), incense, silks and more world maps then I need!
Science up to 60%… ToG in 5 turns followed by metallurgy in 4 turns. Bombay switches to Newton’s in 8 turns.

In 1360AD Rome falls and Shivaji arises as the Great Leader of this tremendous victory. Shivaji departs for Delhi after his troops rename Rome in his honour! This will also provide us with our own fur supply and enough for trading to others.

Pompeii falls in 1370AD. Military Tradition in 4 turns.

In 1375AD Shivaji arrives in Delhi and fortifies… Bombay will finish Newton’s in two turns and no one else is building it so I will risk it.

Veii succumbs to the might of India’s elephants despite the use of muskets (1380) and
Germany demands saltpetre only to depart with their tail between their legs.

Newton’s University is built in1385AD! Does Bombay use Shivaji for Magellan’s or do we wait? Wait it is… maybe we can trade for Smith’s. ToG will be the tool:
- to Babylon for 84gp, 33gpt & Economics
- to Greece for 124gp & 21gpt
- to neoCarthage for 157 & 45gpt
- to Persia for 31gp & 11gpt
Total: 2 596 (396 + 2 200), Economics and a sack full of maps
Rush Smith’s in Bombay.

Magnetism in six and we revolt to Democracy (1390). Antium and Neapolis fall… mass upgrades to Cavalry.

In 1395AD while the cavalry watch, War elephants sortie against the last Roman town: Cumae. Although cumae holds out with a longbowman, Porus arises from the dust of the battle and after leaving instructions to bring up the last of the War Elephants, departs for India.
Give the Vikings metallurgy (11gp) to assist in their struggle against the annoying Germans.

Cumae falls and is renamed Porus by the troops (1400). With Rome’s demise India enters the Industrial Age! Porus enters Delhi to waves of jubilation (1410).

India: 1058; Germany: 791; Greece: 639; Persia: 564; neoCarthage: 520; Rome: 479; Keltoi: 457; Vikings: 454; Babylon: 395; Ottomans: 222

In summary, we have a weakened and tame Persia and we are using trades of technologies to bankrupt all the other Civs while ensuring we have enough gp to fund our own research. I have never played a trading game before and it was quite fun.

PTW 1.27


Ancient Age report

Middle Age

As we entered the middle age (210AD), we were at war against the Persians, and a score of our valiant archers were on their way with the mission of beginning the end of the once proud Persian empire.

This proved very difficult though, since Persian cities were defended by pikemen. Indeed Persians beat us to Feudalism. Our strategists had to reevaluate the campaign, and it is only in 720AD that a modest force of 10 war elephants took Persepolis, forcing Xerxes to abandon his luxurious palace. The Indian people rejoiced, and it was the beginning of a golden age for India. The success was then crowned by the rise of Great Leader amongst our troops in 740AD, who took the lead of a mighty army of war elephants.
In 1080AD, the Persians were no more, and we set our sights on another continent; it was time to pay the Carthagenians a visit...

The Carthagenian war started in 1340AD by taking the first city, which had just completed Bach's. The war was swift, and it ended in 1550AD with the end of the Carthagenians, on a small island south. As we were regrouping and making ready to attack the Romans, we entered the Industrial Age, in 1565AD. We had just started to build a Forbidden Palace in Theveste.

Even though we have built the heroic epic long ago, no more Great Leaders have risen. We are still in Monarchy, since we like to rule with an iron hand, especially in times of war.

We practically do not research during the Middle Age, instead we trade a lot. Towards the end of the age though, we start researching more actively.

What I found most dificult regarding lack of ressources, is to have to defend my continent only with Spearmen during the Middle Age. Luckily, an iron ressource appeared close to my capital, but I was about to capture that of the Persians at that time. I found out later the likelyhood of this to happen was higher than usual, due to the high number of ressources on the map.

At the beginning of the Middle Ages I produced mostly War Elephants and took some more of the Persian Cities. However I failed to keep up a decisive force and ran out of WE. After the upgrade to cavalry and losing some more I gave up attacking further and left the Persians some cities near the southern coast. My reputation was never good with the other nations.

Celts had taken the island to the east, while Carthage and Rome shared the island to the west. Babylon had basically the large continent, Scandinavia was reduced to a small island.

I had the tech lead at the end of the age, but had to stay in Republic, due to my bad reputation and constant wars. (else I would have changed to Democracy).

Mistakes made in this age: not decisive enough against the Persians. Did nothing to improve reputation and made some bad tech and trading decisions. Did nothing to stop the Babylonians.

Predator PTW1.27

Progress

Entered MA as a republic in 310 BC with all contacts except Celts and Scandinavia, learning all first level techs in the same turn thanks to The Republic. So I started researching chivalry. The middle ages always seems to be the slowest era for me (although I have never actually counted the turns) so I was looking forward to a Golden Age, as well as the aquisition of the still Persian territory. So even though chivalry is not a required tech and I am going for early space race victory, it seemed like the natural choice.

I did know a little bit about Celts and Scandinavia before I met them, because I had spotted some unknown border colours next to the Babylonian capital. There was suddenly a change from pink to dark green, proving with 99.9% certainty that they were at war. (It could hardly have been a flip because the pink borders had been expanded.) That meant that they were both almost certainly behind in tech.

In terms of peaceloving you can see that I fit in the hypocritical category. I gathered 7-8 elephants and some longbows and took the two northernmost Persian cities, including 2 lambs, with ease.

The mess starts

When I took the 2nd town, the lamb town, I really caught Persia off guard. They had used their medieval radar to send their immortals into the mountains towards one of my unguarded cities (stupidly ignoring the lightly defended town in Mutton Valley). Because they now turned back to recapture the lamb town, I sued for peace gaining 150 gold. I also took 55 gpt in the peace treaty. Why did the mess start there, you wonder? The reason is that I broke this deal almost right away and later another peace treaty with Persia. I figured that Greece, Babylon, Germany, Ottomans, Celts and Scandinavia would not be able to make contact with Persia, Rome and Carthage before I had wiped all those 3 civs out.

I therefore researched the bottom half of the tech tree, waiting to trade Education, Astronomy and Banking. But the plan did not succeed. By the time the southerners learned astronomy I had built two towns in between Rome and Carthage (hampered by each other by a long war), but I hadn't gone to work on those two civs yet. My scandalous behavor towards Persia had given me control of the starting continent and I started building courthouses all over former Persia. I didn't have to starve the Persian citizens very much so the towns became productive pretty quickly (although I had one flip in the remainder of the game). I left Persia one town on the island south of Rome/Carthage when I realized that I could not avoid the bad reputation.

Second core

I used my first Great Leader, from the Persian Wars, to rush Sistine Chapel in a former Persian city. A town with this wonder expands after just 2 turns so it was a good insurance against a flip.

My second leader came in the brief war with Carthage (cavalry), and was used to build the Forbidden Palace in the Middle of the Carthage/Rome continent. It took me only two or three turns to take the 5 Carthagenian towns (3 of which were of city-size). Rome took about five or six turns after that. Hardly any starving was necessary and the war weariness in republic was minor. (The Roman war actually took place in the early industrial age but I'm putting it here to make this post a bit more substantial. It doesn't seem like a spoiler to me.)

That was the end of my military ambitions in this game.

Reputation

I didn't find my reputation hit to be a very big problem, although maybe later on the remaining civs declared some more useless wars on me than they would have done otherwise. Later, I often gave away techs for Right of Passage to my potential trading partners and took every chance to trade luxuries and strategic resources. Sistine Chapel was useful since I sometimes got a little low on luxuries. The Greeks got to the wine island before me and they were the ones I hoped to be my best trading partner, so I wasn't going to attack them.

Techs

Unfortunately a long war broke out between Ottomans, Greece and Germany (never mind who fought who). This would slow down their tech pace considerably.

Learning Military Tradition was probably unnecessary, but when I did I still clinged to the hope that I could save my reputation by deferring astronomy. I eventually traded for education, astronomy, banking, economics and navigation with the southerners.

4 turn research pace was only achieved for Democracy, which many civs already had. Maybe Theory of Gravity was 4 turns too, but I think it was 5.

Some More Wonders

I managed to build Copernicus' and Newton's in Delhi. Captured Pyramids and Oracle from Persia. Also built Smith's.

Transition to the industrial age

I entered the industrial age in 880 AD. I did have a tech lead, but unfortunately I did not have a monopoly on Democracy to sell so I decided to research Nationalism for the first time in ages, knowing that it has the best trade value when the time comes to gift certain civs into the middle ages. The Roman war was not over either, so the odd riflemen felt like a possible insurance. Still: not good! It was the third optional tech I would research so far (the fourth if you count republic). However, you can be sure I will not research sanitation - this game is so dirty anyway...

1.29 Open

Ancient Age Spoiler

After entering the Middle Ages, a short time passed before I declared war on Persia (290 AD). I don’t recall if I was still without iron at this point, but a deposit was discovered northwest of Karachi. Several Persian cities fell to the less equipped but well trained Indian forces. I did suffer from a couple culture flips, but these were recaptured. In 350 AD, an elite Indian archer (marking the creation of the “Black Cats,” India’s renowned elite troops) generates India’s first Great Leader (built army).

The Great Library continues to provide technologies; my advancement is only as good as the other civs.

Heroic Epic & Military Academy enabled following a victory by the Indian army.

Indian High Command, in spite of appeals for peace by the Xerxes, continues to wage war against Persia. In 650 AD, a Persian Great Leader is executed in the field. In 750 AD, the Great Library provides Chivalry, War Elephant production begins. I consciously choose to avoid trigger my GA.

Having already established an embassy w/ the Vikings, I notice that their capital has been captured by the Keltoi (760 AD).

In 850 AD, the Great Library provides several techs, including Education.

In 850 AD – Indians revolt; Indian Republic created in 860 AD. I begin doing my own research at this point. India will lead the tech race throughout the remainder of the game (wish we had those SGLs).

In 880 AD, the capture of Susa fulfills India’s claim of “Manifest Destiny.” Persia is now attempting an OCC victory. Surprisingly, Persia is capable of paying 29gpt in the peace settlement. Also, in this turn, I rush build marketplaces & courthouses in most Indian cities.

In 970 AD, I gain communications w/ the remaining civs; tech & luxury trades increase. The full world map is gained in 1110 AD.

The Forbidden Palace is built in the former Persian capital city of Persepolis.

Indian surveillance elements begin hearing of wars and rumors of wars. Rome destroys neoCarthaginians.

India enters the Industrial Age first in 1275 AD; enjoying 4 turn research rate w/ sliders at 1 – 8 – 1.

The decision here is to decide what victory condition to pursue. Having secured the starting landmass, established a leadership position among the world’s civs through diplomacy, economics, and might, and monopolized the world’s technology race, I decide to focus on a primary victory condition = domination (space race secondary). Also, I choose not to pursue two front wars; therefore, I risk allowing Rome to solidify its continent while I focus on the Keltoi and their smaller landmass to my east. The Babylonians, Ottomans, and Greeks ought to keep one another in check until I am logistically capable of bringing them under Indian rule. Of course, they are useful in marginalizing my civ of choice. Current world relationships are polite.

mini_map_1110_AD

[Civ3] 1.29f Open

Middle Ages 70BC-760AD

I said in Spoiler 1 that I reached Middle Ages in 110BC or thereabouts. Going over my sketchy notes for this spoiler I now believe it was 70BC.

Suicide Galleys/Meeting Civs. I lost a few galleys mostly east from North India and all directions from the one tile mountain island south of former Persia. First contact was Carthage in 570BC. I went along the north side of Carthage/Rome Island at first. A galley came zooming out of the fog touching on my west coast at one point. From this I deduced suicide wasn't needed because apparently the AI doesn't do that. And that going west from the spot that galley showed was the closest path to Carthage...and it was.

By 30AD we knew all except Ottoman and Keltoi. Met the Keltoi last in 300AD.

Victory Condition. Since we had four scientific civs (after inviting Persia to take a seat), the research-type wins seemed appropriate. 20K cultural probably needs to start immediately...too late for that. With a religious civ 100K cultural could work, but I didn't have nearly enough towns or space. I have played Domination/Conquest exclusively to date...time for something else. Life is too short for Histographic. So we have Space Race or Diplo. I don't have much of a feel for Diplo/AI Attitude/Reputation so Space Race it is.

Seems like the deal is tech as fast as possible, so that is how we oriented the play.

Research. After gifting the Scientific civs into MA (they all got Monotheism) I started Engineering for what reason I can't think at this point. One thing...I was expecting the AI to go for Feudalism which never happened. After that mistake I went beeline for Navigation. Then back to Feudalism and the lower track.

The first tech went in 6 turns I think. As I got better developed this dropped and I noticed that the entire lower track was all 4-turn. This 4-turn research continued until...well, a long time.

I can't recall a single MA tech being researched by the AI in the MA. I guess smallish continents at Monarch level isn't great for AI research. They did get Monarchy eventually for which I gave an old tech in case I ever needed it for War Weariness.

I didn't bother with even checking the non-scientific civs...they were so backwards I didn't think they could help. Would be interesting if somebody actually got them to contribute.

Wars. I was content to sit back and develop towards my Spaceship, but the AI had other plans.

Carthage-declared out of the blue in 300AD. I was busy building Universities and researching to Navigation and so didn't go get them right away. Didn't get around to Chivalry until 440AD, so Carthage felt the wrath of my Swords at first. After Chivalry I built up to about 16-20 War Elephants at any given time...just slowly wore them down and concentrated on research and infrastructure. This war dragged on past the end of Middle Ages.

Vikings-landed a warrior and an archer on India in 470AD. Renegotiated Peace and got their gold. Next turn told them to get out and they declared...doesn't the AI look at the Power Graph??!! Blasted everything they landed and gave them peace in a few turns.

Rome-these guys hit me with a sneak attack in 550AD. I just fought them off in MA. This war lasted into the IA as well. Between Carthage and Rome we saw a lot of Legions.

War Weariness was no problem in the India Republic apparently because these wars were all started by the AI. Probably Monarch level has something to do with it. I seem to be used to Deity and am continually surprised when things don't go as badly as I expect.

In 650AD the very first Great Leader appeared. Although I had waited a long time, it showed at a good time...rushed Newton in Persepolis, giving it both Copernicus and Newton for a big boost in research.

Golden Age. In 510AD I forgot about the GA and swatted a Viking warrior with a new War Elephant. Hadn't wanted to do this since I was at 4-turn research and figured to save the GA until research needed a boost. As well, the bigger you are, the more shields and commerce you get. As it turned out this may have helped the cause in that I finished Universities just about everywhere and ended the GA with 5000+ gold. This gold would fund research until...well, a long time. I didn't need to rush anything to maintain 4-turn.

In 760AD we researched the last needed MA tech having had absolutely no help from the AI and entered the Industrial Age at war and having a grand ole time.

*** deleted for update in previous post ***

Originally posted by Megalou

I entered the industrial age in 880 AD.

Click to expand...

Here is the plus side of avoiding the early wars. I entered in 1275 AD, after fighting w/ the Persians early.

Open PTW 1.14f

Entering Middle Age
I entered Middle Age around year 0. Don't know exactly since I didn't note it down. Anyway, I entered as last in score, but with the number one city in the world, on a good way to a 20K victory. I still benefitted from the Great Library and only had 10% scientists running. I was in Republic so I could quickly rush the buildings needed once my wonders were built. My galleys, guided by the Great Lighthouse had already established contact with all
civilizations. As can be seen in the below picture, Persia was putting a constant pressure on me, but I was slowly building up an attacking force. In Delhi, an odd 10 archers are hiding under the spearman. I would wait for the mighty Elephants to arrive though until Persia was taught a lesson. Bombay meanwhile completed the Sistine Chapel in 670 AD.



The first Counter-attack
Although Bombay was building culture up nicely I felt that I at least needed my part of this island in order to keep up in the tech race. In 770 AD I launched my first counterattack against Persia. When peace was signed in 820AD I had captured 3 of Xerxes northern cities, among them Bangalore. When I declared war however, my reputation took a small hit since my trade route with Rome and Carthage (made possible with the Lighthouse) was blocked by the Persian city Hamadan. In 780 AD The Persians completed Sun Tzu:s in Pasargadae, the Wool City. My Sun Tzu build in Bombay was shifted to Palace prebuild and I would probably end up getting Leos, since Invention was now on the
board (Persia).

The Sequel Wars
Deciding again that my land area wasn't big enough I decided to start a new war with Persia once the Peace Treaty went out, in which I grabbed Sardis and Tarsus. I also captured Susa but couldn't hold it due to massive counter-attacks. In this first sequel war I also got my first GL from one of my Longbowmen. This GL was used to form an army of War Elephants, since I wanted the Epic and the Academy for my Culture. Bombay completed Leos in 1050 AD. With my new army and a bunch of new War Elephants I gained enough confidence to start a third (decisive as it turned out) war against Xerxes. He was now getting weak on immortals, although I hadn't made a specific effort to take out his iron city. Xerxes was history in 1410 AD and in the battle of his last city, Tyre, I generated my second leader.

Moving towards Industrial
I used the leader to rush Shakespeares Theatre. Before that I had hand built Copernicus (1250), Bachs (1385) and Newtons (1475) but it seems I will miss out on Smiths and I've already missed Magellans. I have completed the Heroic Epic and Forbidden Palace in Bombay. At about 1500 AD I entered the Industrial Age as tech leader but my score was still very low - around 700, in fact less than the eliminated Persians! I also switched to Democracy during the Middle Ages to speed up my tech a bit.

Here is Bombay in 1535 AD (10598 culture points):

Originally posted by HighDesert: After gifting the Scientific civs into MA (they all got Monotheism)...

Click to expand...

My oh my... That's more likely to happen with vanilla Civ than PTW, I believe. Still, congrats on a much faster progress than mine. I wonder if your palace jump or basically your early conquest of Persia, or both, did the trick. Using your Golden Age to build universities might also help; I used my GA to build War Elephants, at least in three of my cities.

PTW1.21f

I decided to go for Domination. Persians lasted until about 100CE as I was trying to fish for leaders (got two against them). Then I started shipping Medieval Infantry to Carthage to get the Great Lighthouse and horses. That was accomplished before 500CE. Then I got Cavalries and eliminated Romans (they had THREE sources of iron in their little area!).

I could have researched myself to IA before 700CE, but stopped research after Navigation because it wasn't needed. I didn't have enough ships to ferry all my Cavalries to the main AI lands, I had maybe 40 unused. The Golded Age was triggered with wonders.

Managed to dominate in 810CE, which was later than I would have liked. The main problem was that it took too long to get horses. There was much time I could not produce units so some usually useless Cathedrals were build (I tried to build ICS style but the result wasn't dense enough, so the Caths helped). On the other hand, I think I now managed to maximize happiness better than ever before (traded for luxuries/used luxury slider aggressively).

Playtime was under 10h, so a quick game. The beginning was really interesting. I might replay later. Firaxis score 6496.

Originally posted by dojoboy
Here is the plus side of avoiding the early wars. I entered in 1275 AD, after fighting w/ the Persians early.

Click to expand...

The trick is to fight and still have 4-turn research rate. A good second core is needed ASAP and then depending on the situation, some marketplaces and libraries. Universities should'nt be needed until IA. All the rest is for building units.

As a warmonger, I went the early war route, and then continued, never once building a single library. I'll be very interested to see how my game compares to the strategies that have been employed by the rest of you who have posted.

Megalou, regarding Vanilla Civ and new techs at start of an age...I believe I have read that Vanilla only passed out one tech to the sceintific civs, but I had never tried it. Certainly looks that way to me.

I wonder if your palace jump or basically your early conquest of Persia, or both, did the trick. Using your Golden Age to build universities might also help; I used my GA to build War Elephants, at least in three of my cities.

Click to expand...

I would have to say the combination did the trick, although I don't have enough experience to be able to say for sure. I was basically running two cores, original India and Persia, which is supposed to be the best way to maximize research. The former Persian capital was an awesome beaker generator.

During the war years (most of the time) I built research and needed infrastructure first and then military. The AI wasn't much of a threat and I just got after them as it was convenient.

I am so humbled...

@email10...

Your Bombay is incredible... 10 598 in 1535!

@Drazek...

810 domination with 6 496 in under ten hours! Who are you?

Like I think I said in someother post, I'll never be in the top twenty!

I qualified for this one a couple of days ago and have been debating my future course of action.

So far I've played a very defensive game. The lack of iron and horses, meant no quality attackers would be available until Chivalry was available and then going for Theology (Sistine), meant Persia got Feudalism well before I got Chivalry and soon had multiple pikes in every border town. And just as I got Chivalry, they got Gunpowder (as did I via the Great Library) and muskets showed up in their border cities. They must have traded for it, as they had no local source (probably Rome or Carthage). Not wanting to send Elephants versus Muskets and already having a large and expensive (under Republic) military, I kept moving forward on a 20K victory path with Sistine (in 670 AD same as Email10), Copernicus and Newton. Persia got most of the rest of the MA wonders. Persia has attacked once each age so far, and both times I was able to beat back the Teal Hordes in Mutton Valley, using a combination of artillery (catapults first then cannons) and Bows (Archers & LB), with defenders (spears & muskets) easily eliminating whatever survived to reach the city walls of Lahore.

My dilemma of whether to attack with my superior quality troops in a larger Persian force will be decided during the next spoiler. Until then I’ll just keep defending my borders and adding culture to Bombay (I'll have to check the current culture). I am the tech, culture and population leader so whichever way I go, victory is pretty likely. I’ve met the rest of the world and what’s left of Carthage is being swallowed by Rome, who is the only challenger to Persia & India for the #1 spot. The others trail by 4-5 techs, have little land and few resources.

Open PTW 1.21f

Ancient Age Spoiler

I entered the MA in 230ad just as I had severed Persia's contact with the iron mines. As predicted, Persia was toast and my archers ran roughshod over the remaining Persian cities. In 550ad Persia was down to just 2 cities along the coast when we allowed Persia to buy a little time in exchange for Monarchy. In celebration of the Indian victory over the Persians, Ghandi was named King of India.

On entering the MA, we noted that Babylon (the only scientific civ we had met) had gotten Feudalism. I was still using the Great Library for research at this point, but getting to Chivalry fast was my top priority. We decided our best bet was to run for Monotheism (17t - but would drop once we built the FP in Persepolis) and hope another civ researched Feudalism so our GL could take it. Contact with either Greece or the Ottomans gave us the tech, I don't remember which. In 500 ad we researched Chivalry and began the creation of the Indian horde.

By 830, we had amassed 21 elephants and were readying for the invasion of Carthage when one of my advisors whispered in my ear, "Perhaps, sir, you could send some of our glorious elephants on a trial run on those dirty Perians you've left around, thereby setting off a Golden Age and speeding our military production." <Smacks own head in amazement> Now why didn't I think of that earlier! <grumbles at own thickheadedness>

The elephants made quick work of Tarsus and Bactra, leaving the Persians one island city south of Carthage and ,yes, setting off the very useful Golden Age. The very next turn, our plans were to be changed as the Romans landed a few Legionaries near our ivory town of Hyderabad and taking it. The town was quickly retaken and our horde made a slight change of course to the north and landed at Antium. The Roman Invasion had begun.

The Roman Legionaries were a nuisance but really no match for the mobile elephants as the ability to retreat and regroup wore down the Romans. Rome was the 2nd city to fall in 1010 and by 1130 Leptis Magna had fallen, ending the Roman Empire.

The hordes were not to be rested and the Carthage Invasion was finally begun, featuring a dual attack using the veterans from the Roman war from the north and a new horde landing on the southern shores. Carthage was taken without a hitch, their Numidean Mercenaries hopelessly outdated, and the Carthage War was over in 1220.

Time for an update on tech. Once Chivalry had been researched, our science was dropped to 0% with just 1 scientist in the town of Hyderabad working on the secret of Engineering while we gathered gold at a huge pace. After 20 turns and the scientist halfway there, we entered the Golden Age and acquired Theology from the Library. Given our huge boost to trade, we changed our strategy and switched to Education at full speed. We would trade for Engineering a few turns later in a luxury swap. Using our 4-turn research, we pulled away from the competition and quickly reached Navigation and Magellan's Voyage by 960ad. Our caravels would be able to take our troops anywhere in the world now. We next headed to Military Tradition and got there in 1290, shortly after the Carthage War.

Our next target wasn't as obvious as the first two and a decision had to be made. Scandinavia and the Celts to the east were by far our closest neighbor, but they were weak and probably wouldn't be strong for a long, long time. Seeing that our Elephant Horde would soon be replaced by Cavalry, we decided to forgo the easy route and give our new troops a good test - Greece.

Greece was easily the leader of the non-Indian world, with nearly twice the cities of the next largest nation and placing 2nd so far in tech. Greece's biggest weakness was that their nation was split in two. The origional Greek state was at the southern end of the main continent, while the other half occupied the old Babylonian territory on the west side with the Ottomans in between. They were halfway across the world, but much of that was ocean and our enhanced caravels would be able to cross in around 3 turns. 39 cavalry left the old Carthaginian city of Theveste in 1290ad and crossed the high seas.

In 1310, our troops landed on the southern coast of Greece. Eight turns later South Greece was taken. Cavalry are so much fun! Peace was made with Greece while we cleared the path to their northern half and in 1355 we declared war on the Ottomans. The Ottomans foolishly had been pursuing the religious path of the tech tree as their Sipahi may have lengthened their defense. As it was, their 5 cities fell in 7 turns and they were reduced to a wandering settler in 1390.

Once again I faced a decision. The Greeks to the west or the Germans to the north. The Germans decided things by settling two cities in the wasteland that used to be South Greece. War was declared in 1395. Mainland Germany fell in 1415 - 4 turns and all that was left on the main continent was Greece. We broke peace with Greece in 1420 (by this point who cares what are rep is.) Our well-positioned troops took Greece in 3 turns.

In 1415 an invasion force arrived at the north end of the Celt/Viking island - now completely Celt. By 1435 we had razed Oslo and taken Nidaros (Colossus and Great Lighthouse) when we reached the IA. A late-arriving fleet of galleons is about to transfer 30 cavalry from the now-desolate mainland to the Celtic island while new forces gather to island-hop and finish the scattered remains of my enemies. Germany has 3 cities remaining, the Vikings 2, Greece 2 and the Celts 6. This game is nearly over. I probably could've had a better pace, but I'm somewhat inefficient and really not too motivated into hurrying things along. All I want is to win and have fun. Looks like this game was a success! Taking out the world without wading through Riflemen (ugh) has been a blast. I'll give the final tally in the next spoiler.

PTW 1.27f Open

Early Contacts
Entered the MA in 90 BC after getting Construction + 60g from Persia for Poly. Previous to this, in 250BC, a suicide galley made the trip due east from the northern part of the island and reached land (1st galley died but did show sea squares so I tried a 2nd). I meet the Vikings in 250BC, Babylon in 210BC, Germany in 130BC, Ottomans in 70BC, and Celts in 70AD. This little galley had quite an adventure!

I estimate that Persia had gained contact with the Vikings sometime around 100AD (Vikings had the Great Lighthouse) but they did not know anyone else.

I get Monarch for Liturature in 10AD and revolt. Another trade that year also lands me Fuedalism. I also get Republic in 170AD but am afraid to switch since I have a large amount of archers & spears to keep my military even with Persia. I calculate that the cost of upkeep will kill my research rate. At this point of the game, due to Persia having the great wall and the iron (thus pikeman and immortals), I am trying to reach Chivalry as fast as possible. I buy Monothesium from Babylon in 380AD and research Chivalry at max possible rate.

I meet Carthage in 330AD and determine that thier island would make a nice addition, especially since, south of mutton valley, there is a spot where a galley can make it safely across the sea in 1 turn. It will take 2 turns to land, but, with enough galleys, it should be doable.

Vikings declare war out-of-the-blue in 470AD. I ally Babylon just to stir up trouble. This apparently leads to a world war, with Babylon and Greece beating the stuffing out of the Vikings, Ottomans, and Germans.

(almost) Non-Stop War
In 490AD, I finally research Chivalry. Prebuilds in northern towns will give me 4 elephants the next turn. I wait till 570AD to launch my attack on Persia, trading them Chivalry for Invention & 5g 1 turn before so I can upgrade my archers (they don't have horses and neither did the Vikings who are still thier only contact). By 680AD they are toast. They are also quite nice in completing the Great Library for me during the war.

In 720AD, I declare war on Carthage. This is a real slog due to a couple of cities on hills and thier 2/3/1 UU (I initiate thier golden age). Many, many elephants die. However, I have 7 or 8 cities pumping out new units every 3 to 6 turns so they are readily replaced. By 830AD, Carthage is relagated to an offshore island. I use this time to replenish elephants and get ready for Rome's Legons. By 870AD, Carthage is gone.

I attack Rome in 870AD (also triggering thier Golden Age) but it takes me till 1020AD to finish her off. I get overextended a couple of times, attacking cities with too few units. It costs me many turns and some war weariness kicks in. I also rush the Forbidden Palace in the Carthage lands in 900AD.

Astronomy is bought in 950AD from Babylon.

In 1070AD, I launch a large landing force towards the Celts (18 elephants on 6 caravels). I also declare on the Vikings a short time later, capturing thier wine island as well as all the cities (except 3 Babylon cities) on thier island. Both are done by 1200AD. I get the Pyramids (Celts) and Colosus (Vikings). Magellan's is rushed with a GL in 1150AD on the home continent.

Military tradition is researched around 1200AD.

Around 1230AD, I declare war on Babylon. All three cities on the outer island are captured immediately. By 1260AD, I have captured UR with Leonardo's workshop. Many Pikeman/Spearman/Catapults are upgraded (most elephants are already cavalry).

By 1320AD, Babylon is destroyed and I declare war on Germany. 2 German cities are captured in 1325AD and, IBT, culture grows in a bunch of Babylon cities with new temples, triggering a Domination victory, Firaxis score of only 4464 I was able to play in about 26hr and 30min which is very quick for me. Someday I'll finish a game before 1000AD.



Great game Ainwood I really enjoyed the map. I missed Gotm27 and wished I hadn't after reading the spoilers as naval movement is a weak point in my game. I was really glad to discover that I had to utilize it for this game.

Nice game Drazen. I'd like to get 4-turn research going in MA but I never seem to bet able to get there. I guess I should have rushed the FP in the southern end of the island rather than in Carthage.

Hi all,

Did anyone notice any good easter eggs? (besides the no-horses and no-iron).

Here's a good location for some saltpeter




There was also the wino island and the wheat 1 tile island that gave me a good laugh