RBC12E - Fall of Rome Franks (Deity)

Current Roster:

Hotrod
Kylearan
6thGenTexan
???
???

Looking for 2 more players!


The Fall of Rome Scenario - The Franks Team.

Please see the RBC - Discussion Thread for further details on the Scenario and Play options availble.

The Militaristic and Industrious FRANKs. We start with Barbarism, Pottery, WC and Iron working.

To go with our 1 city we have 7 "Migrant" (2 movement settlers at various spots on the map)

9 raiders AKA warriors and 3 workers.

Algo-Saxons are nearby and the Local Romans look fierce with Legionary and not to mention we are down Masonry, Alphabet, Sailing, HBR, and Poly.

Here is a picture of our starting lands with a few ideas:



Food bonuses are plentiful as are luxuries but I also think our Anglo-Saxon Neighbors are going to be too close for comfort to our NE and the "Friendly" Western Romans are going to be a strong foe to our SE.

From first glance it appears we have a nice parcel of land to settle but we may want to be a bit more selective and that is why I posted my first crack at the initial lay of the land BEFORE playing any turns.

The food bonuses and the river IMO are key for city placement. We may want to push into the Romans and try to claim the iron but I think that may be pushing it and will require an immediate military presence in the area. Other ideas are shown above and are mostly moves to get the most out of the land, ie bonuses and minimal overlap. Open to ideas before I play so think about it and lets discuss. I think in these particular scenarios opening moves are all the more critical.

Also, I think our focus has to be on the Barbarian techs branch. Our only strength is the power of our barabarian units. The sooner we get some real offensive force the sooner we can claim a few Roman lands as our own. Our cheap baracks should help in that endever. There is also a very nice "Barbarian" wonder that should be a priority and we probably want to start thinking about it sooner than later.

Hotrod

From the tech tree it looks like that our biggest advantage will be our barbarian units: Cheap and great offense, but slow and weak defense. To exploit this, we have to wage war as early as possible: Once we have to face heavy cavalry, we will have a much harder time because we lack a good defensive unit. And since all our units except the marauders require iron, we should grab that iron immediately even if that annoys Rome further.

Because we will want to attack ASAP and the scenario lasts only for 150 turns, I don't think we should pay too much attention to overlap.

Do I understand this correctly that non-barbarian civs won't trade for our barbarian techs? But will we be able to trade non-barbarian techs to other barbarian tribes for barb techs?

I ask this because if we do max research on the barbarian tree, we won't be able to get any non-barbarian techs because we don't have anything to offer. And if we decide to research a non-barbarian tech, can we trade it away to barbarian civs?

-Kylearan

P.S.: I hope we will get more sign-ups!

Just a quick comment from a fellow barbarian! Only the initial Barbarian tech (Barbarism) is not tradeable, meaning you cannot trade it to the Romans or Sassinid, and all other barbarians start with it. Other barbarian techs are tradeable, but only if the other tribe already has the prerequisites. So, in effect, you can trade barbarian techs with barbarians, for regular techs or whatever, and can trade regular techs with anyone. Hope that helps.

The barbarian techs, the way I understand it, are able to be traded to the barbarian civs. I think we should persue the barb tech to the end and use trades with the other barb civs to get the "other" techs.

I agree we need to persue war early and if we are in a situation to try and grab the iron early it would be a benefit to the war.

There are 2 sites that can be settled immediately and we can decide on the others as soon as the fog is cleared. I will press the southern settler towards the iron and use the units in the area to defend.

The way I understand it there are Victory points within both of the Roman civs and they will win if they are not taken with in 100 turns. We have our work cut out for us.

Hotrod

I agree that our scientific focus should be on the barbarian techs. Trading will be the way to get the other techs. Did you notice the high tech costs? I do not think we will be running min research.

All we will need is a barrack in new towns. The initial map shows 2 lux we can claim. These connected and MP's (anyone no the MP count?) should keep out towns content whil we build our raiders for an upgarde. Dispargum should work on spears for a little while. I don't think we want raiders protecting our towns after we get our first tech.

Migrant thoughts in numeric order:
1) This spot should start with a pair of boats if we can build them now. I did not check to see if we have a tech for the curraughs(sp).

2) Move one and settle on the dot. With the Anglo-Saxons across the river, we want to settle before they do.

3-4) Depending on what is under the fog, I'd press on and settle on the forrest between the 2 wheat. All that food in one town would be hugh for migrant/worker production. #3 should take both raiders with him. #1 can live w/o protection for a little while. This will allow us to leave one radier in Dispargum.

5) Claim the iron. Send his raider to the east on a contact quest. The two loitering near the Romans can provide some protection.

6) I'd wait until the #5 raider moves west to see where more A-S are standing. The end of the arrow looks good, river & game, but we may be foreced south the the furs.

7) He is probably looking at the heart of the A-S. He may end up following #3-4 SW.

When the time comes, our direction of attack looks to be due south. After claiming a few VP locations, we can shift our focus west and take out enough of their towns to kill the Western Empire. I do have a question here. Do we have to destroy eight towns or capture/destroy a total of eight?

My initial thoughts.

6gntxn

Tex, someone in another thread mentioned that our government allows for 2 MP units per town. Together with no unit costs and low corruption, this is a real killer government.

I agree that we won't need much except barracks in the beginning. Does anybody know how the VP locations work exactly? Are they *in* cities and we have to capture those, or are they just terrain features that have to be in a city's radius? And they do provide VPs once controlled, but we lose the VPs again if we lose the location, right? Sorry, but I haven't played the scenario yet and don't want to be badly surprised by accidently razing one or something like that.

Regarding the 8 cities elimination criteria, either the civilopedia or the F8 screen talks about "losing" cities, so I think it's either razing or capturing.
But with our cheap migrants (20 shields and only 1 pop) we can afford to raze a lot if we want to. The auto-pillage from our barbarian units will mean that cities we capture won't have many building left anyway.

-Kylearan

Small note on the VP locations: you have to actually put a unit on them to claim them - merely having them in a city's radius is not enough. Placing a city on them may however be useful as that means the AI can't kick you off them by founding next to them - however, that is rare anyway.

I'm still holding out hope for a 4th

I will be starting either tonight or tomorrow evening.

Hotrod

count me in, i'm pretty sure i can upload the game saves when i play , dont expect me to be perfect though

Always happy to add another.

well alright

Good luck Hotrod and friendly Franks!! To try to keep the teams moving along at 'kinda' the same rate, I hope you can get going and a few turns done soon. I'm glad to see you've got some very good discussion going here too

The turns will go very quick in this game, so fear not. You may get a sign-on after a few turns anyway.

So go get 'em!

Charis

RBC 12 E

The Barbarous Franks:

After discussion a read of the civilopedia and a little time to soak things in I embark.

324 AD (0): Our Southern most Migran moves toward the river to claim the iron in an attempt at "aggressive" settling, should arrive at the site in 2 turns. Send first Northern Migrant to the direct east to see what lurks behind the fog allong the river. Well there are 2 Anglo-saxon Migrants. We are right on top of each other. Found Tournai in the north to pickup the fish but not on the river. Start a barracks. A Western Migrant founds where he stands, over lap yes but I think we will be better to have strong size 6 cities and not have to worry about huge cities later on. Soissons is founded and starts a "you guessed it a barracks. Move the capital migrants East and will send one to claim the furs and another to the game in the woods.

On the tech side begin Marauding and as 6thgen pointed out the cost are high. No min science in this game. Set to max science and is due in 27 turns with a cost of -3gpt but we have a few more cities to be founded in the next few turns. We as expected are wayyyy behind the Western Romans in tech we can afford nothing. Hold our contacts for now.

326 AD (1): Found the town of Cambri on the river with iron in it's radius. Start a temple to show some culture in the area. Will no doubt be whipped. Not to get too greedy found a city on the river with a wheat a cow and a fish. Town of Tongres. A bit of over lap but again think it will best use the land in the short haul. Start a granary as it will be a huge worker/settler pump. The Western Romans must have sold contact to Western Rome.

328 AD (2): Move out to the River to the West. Less than optimal but in a tight race with multiple Saxons. Found Cologne and Start a worker. Found paris dangerously close to the Anglo-saxons. Got a big feeling we will tango very soon, start a temple.

330 AD (3): Found Marseilles on the river near the furs. Start a raider. Still no trades possible. There is a contact availble but we can't afford it. Sending two raiders to such new civs to the east.

332 AD (4): Dispargum builds a spear starts another. More exploring to the east.

334 aD (5): Following what feels like the yellow brick road to the East. Going to split the 2 raiders off next turn. spot a light blue boarder to the east. Saw Romans fight with an unknown. Romans now have contact with the celts. Trade the Eastern Romans contact with the Anglo-saxons and WM for contact with the Celts. My hope is the Anglos or Celts will trade for techs and we can trade barb techs with them for standard techs. All the celts have is Sailing.

336 AD (6): We have contact with the Vandals they have less than we do. Contact with the Vandals gets us contact with Visigoths from Eastern Rome. Visigoths have nothing.

338 AD (7): Begin to chop the game forest near the capital. More exploring. Mauruding is due in 6 turns and at that time I think we need to take it to the Anglo saxons.

340 AD (8): Dispargum builds a spear starts another. The Vandals have HBR but no deals.

342 aD (9): MM capital to grow in 2 turns. Change production in Marseilles to a worker.

344 AD (10): A bit more exploring. Not much to do. Marauding is due in 3 turns a few barracks due on line soon and then we can start fighting.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC12E_344AD.zip

Hotrod
Kylearan <--- up now
6thGenTexan ( on deck)
Captainkeyes23

Just a quick reminder!

i say that we need to secure iron and those furs at all cost, i'm not sure about us but the Anglo-Saxons will have horses in their area, perhaps we should eliminate them...

Also, to increase our forces i say that we tech to barb. leadership and build Scrouge of God (free warlord every 5 turns). Perhaps we should deny until we are farther ahead in barb. tech line...

A picture:

Great that this game has started and that we have a fourth player! I'm very much looking forward to this.

Without looking at the save, I agree that we will have trouble with the Anglo-Saxons more sooner than later, and may need their lands to expand anyway. So maybe Paris should swap to barracks as well? The short-term culture-flip problem vs. the Anglo-Saxons will probably be solved with a war, and vs. the Romans we won't stand a chance anyway.

Since from Thursday to Tuesday it's carnival season here and the world around me has gone completely mad, and because I have to finish some work between dancing and getting drunk, please move me to the end of the roster - I won't have time to play until Tuesday. Thanks!

K&ouml;lle Alaaf!

-Kylearan

if cambri expands we can get wines, and theirs more iron south of Colonge. trading possibilites!

I'm back in town now but it looks like I am following Kylearan in 2 SG now so I'll put this one ahead and paly tonight or tomorrow.

6gntxn

Look around and end turn.

346AD-1 Soisson barrack-->raider Sassanids show up on diplo screen with the 5 Roman techs and knowledge of the Ostrogoths. Visogoths beat us to Marauding by 2 turns. They have the other 3 known techs so they have not traded it yet. I'll see what we can get for it next turn. Dispargum gets a scientist at size 5. I switch the spear to a migrant due next turn. The 2 defense is the same as a Marauder. It is due next turn @+5. WM and 19g gets us the contact with the Ostrogoths. They have Marauding only on us. They will trade it. I give them 12g to finish our research to see what we can trade for it. The Vandals give us HBR and 16 for it. Naturally there are no horses in France. Give the HBR to the Ostrogoths for their 65g. The Celts get HBR for Masonry. Take all of the A-S 78g for Masonry. Sell our WM to WRome for 10g. This give us enough to buy Alphabet from ERome for contact w/Ostrogoths, WM and 169g. That did not work out well. Everyone thinks sailing is worth more than Alphabet. I give Alphabet the the Visigoths for a worker and 36g. Pick up a worker and 13g from the Vandals. Alphabet to the Celts with 42g for Sailing. I'll be bouncing between 80% and 90% for Pillaging in 14-17 turns with a scientist this turn. Looking back 5 techs and 2 slaves doesn't look to bad for about 20g. The slaves are heading to the iron, wine and furs.

348AD-2 Cologne worker-->barrack Dispargum migrant-->raider The worker is connecting the road and the migrant is heading south to claim a cow game spot SE of Marseilles. WM gets us 6g or 2 turns at 90%.

350AD-3 Marseilles worker-->barrack. Tongres is unhappy at size 3. There is nothing available to double whip the granary so it gets a scientist. Another 6g for our map. No neede to bouce the slider.

352AD-4 The chop at Dispargum was a waste with the arrival of a raider, starts a migrant and gets a scientist @5. The WM game is running out, only 2g this time.

354AD-5 Soisson raider-->curragh. The A-S took my spot in the south. Founded where they could not steal our wine and there is a cow and game in range after expansion. 7g for the map this time.

356AD-6 Only 2g for our map.

358AD-7 4g for our map. Whip the Granary in Tongres. They get the next MP.

360AD-8 Tongres granary-->worker Dispargum migrant-->raider Here is a new one...Plague in Tournai. The Ostrogoths have met the Huns as well as the Roman powers. 3g for our map.

362AD-9 Avignon founded on English channel and starts a barrack. Rush temple in Paris. 3g for the map. I must not have noticed last turn but the Ostrogoths now have Math and Writing.

364AD-10 Dispargum raider-->raider Tournai barrack-->worker Paris temple-->barrack I have a raider heading towards Avignon. We still have 2 exploring east. 3g more for our map. The plague has ended in Tournai.

We are two turns from Pillaging. Next up is Barbarian Leadership and the Scourge of God. We need to slow our science here. Our best shield producer is Dispargum. The problem is it can only get to 11shields at size 6 with both our lux connected. That is 19 turns for the Scourge with a prebuild of 2 turns. If we have writing, we have a libarary we can use as a prebuild of about 7 turns. Another reason to slow our research is to get some mone for alliances against the Romans which will also require writing. Short version: get writing from the Ostrogoths with Pillaging. Slow research to gain income for embassies, upgrades and alliances.

I was using scientists instead of lux tax to keep people happy. This saves money and aided the research by two turns on Pillaging.

Prepare to Pillage