T&T - trade options 610 AD.

A lot has happened, trade-possiblity wise. I see many civilizations with interesting things. I have too limited time to work out what they want for it, so I just post what each civ is up on us and what they are down on us. For resources and luxes I limit this to tradeable resources.

Group A:

Germany
Up: Monarchy, Engineering & Theology.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu.

India
Up: Monarchy.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu, Dyes , Feudalism.

Russia
Up: Monarchy & Engineering.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu.

Babylon
Up: Monarchy & Engineering.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu, Dyes.

Greece
Up: Monarchy.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu, Iron, Feudalism.

Egypt
Up: Monarchy, Engineering & Theology.
Down: Contacts with Persia, Aztecs, Iroquois & Zulu.

---------------------------------------------------

Group B:

Persia
Up: Monarchy, Chivalry & Theology.
Down: Contacts with Germany, India, Russia, Babylon, Greece & Egypt.

Aztecs
Up: Monarchy.
Down: Contacts with Germany, India, Russia, Babylon, Greece & Egypt, The Republic.

Zululand
Up: Monarchy & Chivalry.
Down: Contacts with Germany, India, Russia, Babylon, Greece & Egypt.

Iroquois
Up: nothing.
Down: Contacts with Germany, India, Russia, Babylon, Greece & Egypt, Polytheism, Currency, Construction, Monotheism & Feudalism.

---------------------------------------------------

Interesting things:
- The Germans don't know 2 other civs with Theology; only Egypt has it (of the civs they know), so they've researched it themselves. Remember that they own the Great Library.
- We have 1 spare Iron which can be traded to Greece. They offer only WM + 2 gold for it though.
- We have 1 spare Dyes, which can be traded to India or Babylon. They offer peanuts only however.
- Ignoring Monarchy and Engineering (which are widespread around the civs, thus cheap). Germany, Egypt and Persia have Theology (Persia at Monopoly prices), Zulu and Persia have Chivalry. This could mean a possible 2fer1 or 3fer1 if we buy Chivalry from Group B and sell it to Group A for the rest of the techs. I'll calculate that in the next post.

Rik,

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know the specific costs to buy Engineering and Theology from the various Civs..

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire

BTW - interesting point about Germany. It appears Persia is the current tech leader. If we can keep Persia and Germany from making contact, it will slow Germany down until we can get Education.

-- Ravensfire

This is a list of what is asked for some good techs on the first trade. If we make 1 trade, the second trades will differ in value.

Chivalry from the Zulu. They want:
762 gold.
43 gpt.
WM + 759 gold. It seems they already know our map; I'll leave the WM options out of the lists
2 or 3 Contacts.

Chivalry from the Persians. They want:
742 gold.
42 gpt.
2 or 3 Contacts.

Theology from the Germans. They want:
913 gold.
51 gpt.
WM + 547 gold.
WM + 31 gpt.
2 or 3 Contacts.

Theology from the Egyptians. They want:
864 gold.
48 gpt.
WM + 500 gold.
WM + 38 gpt.
2 or 3 Contacts.

There are 2 paths to go in in trades. Both have different goals.
Goal 1: Get Persia to research for us and we'll sell it to our continent-sharers.
Goal 2: Slow down the AI's research so that we will become tech-leader and research ourselves.

Goal 1: Buy Chivalry from Persians for gpt. Trade it for Theology with Germany or Egypt and get Engineering from it by some other Group A Civs. (this can be continued by trading Engineering then to Group B) for straight cash, and gpt, but not gpt from Persia

Goal 2:
Buy Chivalry from the Persians for straight gold. Trade it for Theology with Germany or Egypt and get Engineering from it by some other Civ on our continent. Trade Engineering back to Persia and other Group B civs for gpt.

T&T advises to keep our goals in research (do it ourselves or buy it and trade further) in mind when commenting on this.

Originally posted by ravensfire
Rik,

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know the specific costs to buy Engineering and Theology from the various Civs..

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire

Click to expand...

You're too fast; the last line in post #1 implied that I was still working on it.

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
You're too fast; the last line in post #1 implied that I was still working on it.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, you were. Sorry - brain spasm again. Thanks for the info BTW!

-- Ravensfire

Useful information from your Ministry of Internal Affairs!

Current gold reserves: 1531 gold (382 shields if used to rush)
Current income: 143gpt (35 shields if used to rush)

-- Ravensfire, Minister of Internal Affairs

Possible idea:

Purchase Chivalry from Egypt, then sell around on turn 0.

Assuming we have enough gold, purchase Theology from Egypt on turn 0, or on turn 1 if we don't have enough gold. Again, sell around.

This option will wipe out our cash reserves. We would have only the income from selling Theology around, and our GPT. Given we are at least considering liberating the Egyptian cities on our lands, we should avoid gpt deals to keep our reputation solid.

-- Ravensfire

I agree that we have to trade. I do not agree with any of the above proposals. I looked at the save and made the following observations:

1. more old world civs know engineering than new world civs know chivarly
2. thus we can buy engineering cheaper and sell it higher than vice versa
3. we are not especially eager to sell chivalry to old world civs (I suppose)
4. Russia lacks theology
5. Russia is willing to pay 310 g for our wm[/list=1] Therefore I recommend as follows:
   • buy engineering from Russia for wm, 390g
   • trade engineering plus some cash to Persia for chivalry and theology
   • get our money back from Russia for theology
   • get monarchy, wm, cash from India for wm, theology
   • get as much wm, cash for our tm, wm
     [/list=a] We might decide not to trade our wm to the old world civs. In this case we have to pay 700g for engineering. I doubt that we can reclaim this amount completely for theology. But I still would not give chivalry away on our continent.

Hmm, I kinda like that tao. I personally have no problems with selling our WM around. I would amend d. to sell Theology to anyone that doesn't have it yet. We might as well get the money from it. Being at work, I have no idea about their cash reserves, which would impact that idea.

Please though - no trading contacts! Let's remain the broker for as long as we can!

Here's an idea though. We carry out a. immediately. We hold off the rest for a turn. Why? We use some funds (amount to be based upon cost of techs from Persia) to rush Horsemen in 4-5 cities, perhaps more. We then upgrade all horsemen to Knights, and "invite" the Egyptians to swim back home.

Honorable war, with a defined goal and end point. Maybe hit Babylon with a gpt deal in case they decide to declare. I just love ruining their rep! It would solidify our end of the continent.

-- Ravensfire

In addition to tao's plan:

Engineering from Russia
42 gpt.
754 gold.
WM + 22 gpt.
WM + 380 gold.
2 or 3 Contacts.


Engineering from Egypt
41 gpt.
733 gold.
WM + 21 gpt.
WM + 369 gold.
2 or 3 Contacts.

Engineering from Germany
44 gpt.
775 gold.
WM + 409 gold.
WM + 23 gpt.
2 or 3 Contacts.

Engineering from Babylon
44 gpt.
781 gold.
WM+ 23 gpt.
WM + 400 gold.
Dyes + 35 gpt.
Dyes + 621 gold.
Dyes + WM + 14 gpt.
Dyes + WM + 240 gold.
2 or 3 Contacts.
WM + 1 or 2 Contacts.
WM + Dyes + 1 or 2 Contacts.

I'd like to also point out that renegotiating peace is possible with all Group A civs. I'm not going to calculate it's total effect, I just want to mention that:
Germany - Renegotiating drops the Engineering price by 123 gold to 652 gold.
India - Has no Engineering, but they give all their gold (13) for a renegotiated peace treaty.
Russia - Renegotiating drops the Engineering price by 222 gold to 532 gold.
Babylon - Renegotiating drops the Engineering price by 209 gold to 572 gold.
Greece - Has no Engineering, but they give all their gold (2) for a renegotiated peace treaty.
Egypt - Renegotiating drops the Engineering price by 101 gold to 632 gold.

Continue this discussion with this new knowledge.

Take the deal with Germany.

Originally posted by Sarevok
Take the deal with Germany.

Click to expand...

I would be very interested to hear how you came to this conclusion, since

1. Germany wants more than Persia, and
2. we can't reclaim the money for theology, since Germany knows it already.
   [/list=1]

If we include the Peace Renegotiation in these trades (Discussion on this is here) then we need to be careful not to include any other per turn items in the same deal eg: gpt or luxuries.

If we do include other gpt deals than the Civ may automatically ask us to renegotiate at the end of the 20 turns, and we will have no choice but to take another 20 turns of peace (which we may have to pay for next time) or declare war.