Science, Shields and Trade : How about a revamp?

Here's the first of (hopefully) many ideas I came up with for Civilization IV, to increase historical realism *without* sacrificing the easy to manage gameplay of the older versions.

First, rename Trade to Wealth. It would then represent all ressources found around your city that are not essential for survival (ie food).

Second, remove shields entirely. Instead, make production another aspect of wealth, controlled by the slider bars. The higher you set the production rate, the more of your ressources and wealth (and workforce) are devoted to building your city improvements or units, and conversedly the less trade they generate for you to tax, and the less wealth they generate for themselves (luxury).

Of course, as a result, such things as mines would increase wealth instad of shields. This is only sensible - having mines around your towns doesn't necessarily mean you'll build your library faster. It does mean your town will be wealthier than one with nothing but the barest minimums for survival, though.

Then, to complete the change and leave wealth/trade having only three aspects (luxury, taxes, production in the new model, luxury, taxes and science in the old), science would be made its own separate ressource.

After all the man who invented the wheel most likely came up with a brilliant idea while working the field (and the same can be said of many inventions all the way to the modern age) ; he wasn't a paid employee of the state in any way, form and shape. Even Henry Ford and his friends weren't paid to discover Mass Production - they did it on their own.

As a result, I recomend making Science its own separate "basic ressource". You could then introduce the concept that researchign certain technology causes certain tiles to generate more science. (IE, water tiles generate +1 science while you are researching navigation for example).

Of course, you would then be able to use money you make from your taxes to subsidize research or production, paying a certain amount of gold to buy a proportional amount of production or science. You woudln't have to buy *all* the missing production or science to complete the research or city improvements.

As I said, just an idea that crossed my mind. I think it keeps the simplicity of the Civilization system - after all, it's basically the same as we've always had - but at the same time, it far better capture how things tend to work in regard for the economy - an economy that's focused on building for the government won't generate much wealth or trade after all.

Good idea, but go further with it. The food system needs a revamp. You cannot trade food between cities, something which is incredibly common in the real world.

Also, there are no produced goods being traded. Or units. Or anything besides ideas and money and basic goods (and the occasional slave...).

I would like to be able to import Fine Ferraris for my people, and to export Aegis Cruisers to support some impoverished island nation (in no way a reference to any real world situation... ;p).

It would be nice, and it would certainly add some flava!

It does need to be improved, trade, production and food. I agree that the way to improve food would be to trade food between cities, or maybe pool it on a national level and when it starts to run dry the cities that produce the least food per person starve first. Trade and production though should be improved by completely tossing out the idea of terrain producing them. New York isn't a wealthy city because there is gold in some hills nearby it is because there are a lot of people and businesses all making economic contributions. Trade and production should rely almost completely on infrastructure of the city and have little to do with the surrounding terrain.

Dr. Broom, that's a modernocentric idea.

Right up until the very recent days of electronic trade et al, places that stood near rivers or along great roads, or on the coast (sea trade) were commercial hubs, so to have roads and rivers affect trade as they do now is perfeclty sensible, even desirable (same with having rare ressources add to trade).

To take New York again, its strategic location near a river leading deep into native american territory was key to its development in terms of trade.

Improvements should BECOME the cornerstone eventually in the modern age or so, but up til then, terrain-based (or at least terrain improvements based) trade makes more sense than you give it credit for.

Take the industrial age for example then, people didn't get production from mining in a hill they got it from huge steel mills which were inside the cities' industrial sectors. This production inside the city created jobs inside the city which created wealth for the city, it wasn't made by farming in fields anymore. Terrain generating wealth and production shouldn't exist after middle ages.

What are you talking about?

The Steel Mill did *NOT* create the production - it was used to convert raw ressources into better quality material, more useful for building. However, the RAW MATERIAL - the basic production - still had to be collected from mines, quarries and the ilk, IE it was still terrain-produced as per the civ rules.

The role of the steel mill in society is represented in Civ by factory : they take raw ressources (2 shield) and refine them to far more useable ressources (3 shields), yielding a massive increase in the city's ability to produce.

What you're saying about steel mill is essentialy the same as if I were to say "Well, obviously people today don't get their food from farming ; they get it from bakers, major food-producing companies which process said foods in plant and so forth ; so all food production in later ages should be represented by city improvements, not by terrains.

Of course we all know that even if people buy food processed in factories, the food ultimately has to come from farmers and the ilk. Same goes for your vaunted steel mills - sure, they make the steel - but they make it from iron which has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere just so happens to be (surprise, surprise) mines!

I know the steel mills didn't make the production literally but countries production capacity in the industrial ages was measured by their ability to create steel.