Aurelesk
King
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2017
- Messages
- 602
Now that I have your attention, let’s discuss about something: the power of the units. I was wondering how the Combat Strength increases across the era. And it’s pretty simple: it’s around +17 Combat Strength for double Production. A unit that need 50 Production for 25 CS will have 42 CS if the cost is 100 Production, and then 59 CS of the cost is 200 Production, more or less.
So here a Chart:
X axis : Combat Strength of the unit
Y axis: Rentability of the unit, based on this formula Rentability = 2^(CS/17-1)/Production
We can see a trend. We do see that the rentability of a unit slowly increase with era starting by the medieval era… except for ancient/classical era that are way different. As we may expected, Quadrireme and Pikeman are one of the worst unit of the game and the Slinger, Warrior, Archer, Horseman and late game units are one of the best. That’s why early warfare are that powerful.
Why +17 Combat Strength you may ask? You may observe that a Corps and a Army increase by +10 and +17 the Combat Strength of unit. Yes, +17 and not +20 for the Army. It’s because the Combat Strength isn’t linear. +10 CS is equal to +50% damage done and can endure 50% more damage (so -33% damage taken), making the unit 50% more effective. +17 is equal to +100% damage done and can endure 100% more damage (so -50% damage taken).
Here a chart:
You may say that combine 3 units in 1 isn’t worth because you go from a 3× Power to 2× Power without the support/flanking bonus, but due to 1 unit per tiles and the healing factor, the Army have better survivability, have more Promotion and get better.
That’s why I am kind of dubitative about increasing by 17 the CS for double Production for units, because that’s not working that way for Corps and Army. For example. 1 Swordman is better than 2 Warrior (without Support/Flanking), because the Swordsman can focus one unit at the time, meaning he will survive. Plus, only an Army of Warrior can be as strong as a single Swordman.
The needed Production is scaled with the technology, except the Anti-Cavalry unit that are kind of misleading. I do think that the Anti-Cavalry line was suspected to be 15% cheaper to produce but suffer from -4 Combat Strength in exchange. But the Spearman cost is the same of the Heavy Chariot but suffer from the -4 CS. The Pikeman also suffer from the -4CS but cost 15% more! Somehow, it is the Knight have have the -15% Production! Only the Pike and Shot, the AT Crew and the Modern AT kind of follow this rule of less required Production but less powerful.
Strategic Resource tend to increase a little the overall Combat Strength of the unit. The Coal units have more Movement instead I think. I put all the units Combat Strength, Production / Gold cost… in a sheet right here. You are free to use it.
I tried to find a formula to balance all the units by changing the Production and Combat Strength, but I must admit that I failed. With my formula, Knights need 20 more Production but get 3 CS more. That's why I put that title!
The main problem with Knights are not their inner Strength. They are almost below average! The problem isn't the Kinghts itself but how we get to it. It is possible to get a late medieval era units by searching only 4 technologies (Animal Husbandry, Archery, Horseback Riding, and Stirrups). Plus, upgrading units are cheap in gold. For example, a Heavy Chariot is 260 Gold and Knights are 720 Gold but the upgrading is only 180 Gold, without the policy card that decrease the cost!. So you better buy the Heavy Chariot and upgrading it than buying straight away!
The other reason is there is no way to counter a Knight, having a long time window of utility. Spearman is weak: 25+10 < 48. Even the Pikeman is weak 41+10 > 48, but what is +3 CS when you have more Movement, require less Science (nor going to a leaf tech) and have an avantage against all others units even the Musketman (55 < 48+10) ?
So here my suggestions:
And you, what do you think about the units and Combat Strength and how it increase across the era?
So here a Chart:
Spoiler :
X axis : Combat Strength of the unit
Y axis: Rentability of the unit, based on this formula Rentability = 2^(CS/17-1)/Production
We can see a trend. We do see that the rentability of a unit slowly increase with era starting by the medieval era… except for ancient/classical era that are way different. As we may expected, Quadrireme and Pikeman are one of the worst unit of the game and the Slinger, Warrior, Archer, Horseman and late game units are one of the best. That’s why early warfare are that powerful.
Why +17 Combat Strength you may ask? You may observe that a Corps and a Army increase by +10 and +17 the Combat Strength of unit. Yes, +17 and not +20 for the Army. It’s because the Combat Strength isn’t linear. +10 CS is equal to +50% damage done and can endure 50% more damage (so -33% damage taken), making the unit 50% more effective. +17 is equal to +100% damage done and can endure 100% more damage (so -50% damage taken).
Here a chart:
Spoiler :
You may say that combine 3 units in 1 isn’t worth because you go from a 3× Power to 2× Power without the support/flanking bonus, but due to 1 unit per tiles and the healing factor, the Army have better survivability, have more Promotion and get better.
That’s why I am kind of dubitative about increasing by 17 the CS for double Production for units, because that’s not working that way for Corps and Army. For example. 1 Swordman is better than 2 Warrior (without Support/Flanking), because the Swordsman can focus one unit at the time, meaning he will survive. Plus, only an Army of Warrior can be as strong as a single Swordman.
The needed Production is scaled with the technology, except the Anti-Cavalry unit that are kind of misleading. I do think that the Anti-Cavalry line was suspected to be 15% cheaper to produce but suffer from -4 Combat Strength in exchange. But the Spearman cost is the same of the Heavy Chariot but suffer from the -4 CS. The Pikeman also suffer from the -4CS but cost 15% more! Somehow, it is the Knight have have the -15% Production! Only the Pike and Shot, the AT Crew and the Modern AT kind of follow this rule of less required Production but less powerful.
Strategic Resource tend to increase a little the overall Combat Strength of the unit. The Coal units have more Movement instead I think. I put all the units Combat Strength, Production / Gold cost… in a sheet right here. You are free to use it.
I tried to find a formula to balance all the units by changing the Production and Combat Strength, but I must admit that I failed. With my formula, Knights need 20 more Production but get 3 CS more. That's why I put that title!
The main problem with Knights are not their inner Strength. They are almost below average! The problem isn't the Kinghts itself but how we get to it. It is possible to get a late medieval era units by searching only 4 technologies (Animal Husbandry, Archery, Horseback Riding, and Stirrups). Plus, upgrading units are cheap in gold. For example, a Heavy Chariot is 260 Gold and Knights are 720 Gold but the upgrading is only 180 Gold, without the policy card that decrease the cost!. So you better buy the Heavy Chariot and upgrading it than buying straight away!
The other reason is there is no way to counter a Knight, having a long time window of utility. Spearman is weak: 25+10 < 48. Even the Pikeman is weak 41+10 > 48, but what is +3 CS when you have more Movement, require less Science (nor going to a leaf tech) and have an avantage against all others units even the Musketman (55 < 48+10) ?
So here my suggestions:
- Make the early Anti-Cavalry more useful:
- Most importantly the Pikeman that cost a lot and have a reduced CS. It should need 20/25% less Production but 7-10 more Combat Strength. Maybe change the prerequisite of Military Tactics from Mathematics to Currency and/or make Military Tactics a prerequisite of Education.
- Add one more prerequisite to Stirrups like Iron Working
- Increase the upgrading cost a lot:
- It is too easy to pre-build an army with the Production card and then upgrade it for a cheap price and roll over.
- Decrease the rentability of units accross the era instead of increase it.
- General balance change, like increasing the Production cost of early ranged unit and/or reduce the ranged Combat Strength.
And you, what do you think about the units and Combat Strength and how it increase across the era?