103 Taser related deaths in US and Canada

[Uiler]

Better than shooting 'em with a .38. *Shrugs*

*Kicks elrohir* (see above message).
Besides only 11 of the 103 above cases involve people who were even armed. Just reading the reports it seems most of the people who died were high on drugs or mentally ill. They were not (seriously) violent or even armed but were simply not obeying orders to say stand up or were rolling around or making flaying movements or just struggling (but not with any real cause for harm). In fact many were tasered when they were *already* restrained and police just wanted to shut them up (restraints are often cited as part of the cause of death). Police tasered them (in many times repeatedly) because they couldn't be bothered trying to bring out their training on how to deal with (non-violent) people who are on drugs or (non-violent) mentally ill people. Why bother trying to remember how to talk softly to a (non-violent) mentally ill person who is refusing to move or is struggling against being held (but is not armed or bashing anyone) or how to get his compliance when you can just bring out a taser and shock him (repeatedly) instead. And apparently to their police departments this is proper procedure and the police behaviour was perfectly OK. Basically most of these people died not because they posed a threat of violence and it was all a tragic accident but unavoidable but because tasers are making police lazy and instead of spending say an hour or so talking to the crazy guy who refuses to move or stay quiet they just taser him 10 times instead. Quick and easy! Why bother training police to do anything but taser people?

EDIT: For example, this case here:

* Glenn Richard Leyba, aged 37, died in Glendale, Colorado in September 2003. According to a report on the case by the District Attorney’s office, paramedics arrived at Leyba’s apartment after his landlady called for an ambulance, and found him "laying face-down, rolling from side to side … making moaning and whimpering sounds". A police officer twice used her taser on him as a stun-gun when he failed to respond to attempts to roll him over and became "physically resistant". The police report is cited as stating that the second stun mode discharge "increased his level of agitation". The same officer then fired a taser dart into Leyba’s back, resulting in Leyba "moaning, screaming and ‘flailing’ his legs and in an increase in his level of physical agitation. It did not, however, gain Mr Leyba’s compliance". Altogether, Leyba was electro-shocked in stun or dart mode at least five times, after which he "stopped all physical resistance" and was handcuffed behind his back. The report states that "while being wheeled to the ambulance, the paramedics noticed that Mr Leyba’s skin color was grayish, that he had stopped breathing, and that he had no pulse". Efforts to resuscitate him were unsuccessful and he was pronounced dead in hospital.(123)

The coroner gave cause of death as "cardiac arrest during cocaine-induced delirium".


The report from the District Attorney’s office noted that there were inconsistencies in the various police and witness reports as to the mode, placement and time of taser discharges.(124) There was also disagreement about the level of Leyba’s resistance. The four paramedics on the scene separately testified that he was not trying to hurt anyone and was "delirius" and kicking his feet "in no particular direction". One paramedic noted that he appeared to be very scared and was "combative from altered mental status, not combative as if resisting". One wrote in a "Patient Care Report" that he and another paramedic disagreed with the officer’s use of the taser "at least when it was being used in the stun mode" and that the stun discharges "only served to further agitate Mr Leyba"(AI emphasis). Despite these findings, the District Attorney’s office concluded that the officer’s actions did not violate any Colorado criminal statute and "constituted both a legitimate defense of others and a legitimate effort to prevent Mr Leyba from causing himself serious bodily injury".

or a mentally ill guy who died after being tasered after being strapped to a restraint chair (the second mentally ill patient to die in such circumstances in that jail):

Frederick Jerome Williams, aged 31, died in Gwinnett County Jail, Georgia, in June 2004, after being shocked with a taser while being strapped into a restraint chair. According to media reports, police went to his home after receiving a call from Williams’ nine-year-old son saying that his dad was "talking crazy" and not taking his epilepsy medication. The boy reportedly asked for an ambulance "because my dad is saying all sorts of stuff and he is hitting my mom with a belt". When police arrived, Williams called the officer "the devil" and grabbed the officer’s baton and threw it at him. Despite the son’s request for a "hospital truck", police arrested him and took him to jail. He was reportedly struck twice with a taser while being strapped into a restraint chair and was noticed to have stopped breathing seconds later. He died later in hospital.

* James Borden, aged 47, died in Monroe County Jail, Georgia, on 6 November 2003, after being stunned at least six times with an M26 Taser. Police had arrested him earlier that evening for violating a home detention order (Borden had been spotted the previous day acting in a confused and disoriented state near a local convenience store).(119) According to a subsequent lawsuit, at the time of his arrest Borden "exhibited slurred speech, was unstable on his feet and was physically weak". An Emergency Medical Team (EMT) ambulance was called and medical personnel indicated that he needed to go to hospital but he was taken to jail instead. He was tasered on arrival at the jail, reportedly for "thrashing around" and talking incoherently as he was being removed from a police car. Once in the jail, still with his hands cuffed behind him, the same officer (Shaw) shocked Borden several more times for being "uncooperative" and failing to comply with a command to step out of his shorts or pyjama pants which had fallen around his ankles. In one statement, Shaw is reported to have said:

"... I asked Borden to lift up his foot to remove the shorts, but he was being combative and refused. I dry stunned(120) Borden in the lower abdominal area …We got Borden into the booking area. Borden was still combative and uncooperative. I dried stunned Borden in the buttocks area".

Borden was then reportedly pinned to the floor of the booking area and shocked again, after which he turned blue and lost consciousness. An ambulance was called and he was taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead. A statement released by the county jail authorities just after Borden’s death said that "standard police procedures by trained officers to control combative or uncooperative individuals" had been used.

 

[Goober]

Just wondering, why is this issue so important to you? 103 deaths is hardly significant. In the grand scheme, its a very minor issue.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I mean honestly how many times do I have to repeat this.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

I repeat again for the stupid,

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

I mean I've only said this in EVERY message I posted in this thread.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THE CONTROVERSY IS NOT ABOUT THE USE OF TASERS AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

And the statistics Amnesty quotes are from Taser itself.
<snip>
Think of this way:

- Police are allowed to taser anyone for anything. The level of non-compliance allowed for tasering is swearing at police and arguing over traffic violations. So basically anyone for anything.
- Tasers cause severe pain. Parents have been jailed for child abuse for tasering their kids.

*brings out the Soggy Carp of Thwapping*

 

[zulu9812]

Amnesty International is a very biased source. They have done excellent jobs at taking minor incidents, and misundertandings, and blowing them totally out of proportion. I have 0 trust in Amnesty. Bunch of Liberal whiners they are.

Bearing in mind that Uilier has gone to a lot of trouble to research this topic and then analyse the material extensively, perhaps you could provide some research as well? Because so far, all you've done is spout useless right-wing nonsense straight from the Republican Book of Standard Phrases.

Better than shooting 'em with a .38. *Shrugs*

You're not paying attention. This study draws attention to the fact that the police are tasering people in situations where they would not have had to use a '.38'

 

[Uiler]

Just wondering, why is this issue so important to you? 103 deaths is hardly significant. In the grand scheme, its a very minor issue.

You can actually say the same thing about the Patriot Act. How many people have actually been affected so far by the Patriot Act? It's actually only a small proportion of the population. So why are people complaining so much? Because it has a very wide potential for abuse for everyone. It is not just the deaths. The thing is after the introduction of tasers, police in America who have access to tasers are abusing them and NOT using them for their intended purpose (to reduce the use of violence and force) but are turning them into the "first step" for very minor matters which otherwise would not involve the use of force. You are giving them a weapon which causes large amounts of pain, which can cause death in certain at risk groups and giving them a blank slate with no restrictions and no consequences for any of their actions involving using this weapon (including causing death). It certainly makes things much easier for police. Why bother learning how to deal with someone arguing with you over a traffic violation when you can taser them? Why bother dealing with a non-violent distressed mentally ill person, maybe spending days in a course learning how to calm them down when you can taser them? Tasers are quick, easy, always at hand and for police always easier and quicker than the non-violent alternatives. For police tasers are great! But then again if police were allowed to bash anyone for even verbal non-compliance that would be great for police as well! If the state were allowed to jail anyone without trial that would be great for the state . The question is whether it is great for the wider populace. Argue with police over a traffic violation, get tasered. The police come to your house over a party which is too loud, you turn your back on them and you get tasered. You are drunk, get pulled over for breath-testing, stagger over and fall into a ditch and you get tasered. You are old and hard of hearing and blind and don't hear the police telling you not to go into your house while they move some rubbish from your yard into your house and you get tasered (all these are real examples and where the police department denied was any problem with the way things happened). Police esp. seem to be using tasering to control mentally ill and drugged people who are not violent but are thrashing or not obeying orders (because of their mentally altered state). However these are the people most at risk at dying from tasering (and in fact seem to make up the majority of taser related deaths). Currently tasers are planned to be deployed to all police in America from their currently restricted trials. When this happens and if nothing changes in police policy then every American civilian can be and will be tasered for small minor infractions. And this includes YOU. Let's just hope you don't have heart disease because that's another at risk group, as well as pregnant women.

Also, if you say 103 people is a minor thing - the whole idea of introducing tasers was to *reduce* the number of people police shoot (which they do - the point is a very minor fraction of the 103 deaths from tasering would have involved police shooting if tasers were not available). Now this number isn't that high either compared to the population. So why even bother with the expense of tasers at all for such a small number of deaths (compared to the population?).

People in this thread say "Well would you rather be shot" when this thread is not about a choice between tasering or death. Well, here's one back at you - do you think police should risk getting a couple of bruises dealing with a mentally ill or drugged person (who is not about to cause major injury), or do you think that police should risk killing them by tasering them? Do you think that police should repeat an order to a deaf old lady to not go into her house while they are moving some stuff or should they electroshock her 4-5 times? Do you think that police should hold a pregnant lady (who is not struggling and where there is no other violence going on) to stop her going into a house to confront her husband or electroshock her thus risking causing her to lose her child? *Those* form a much larger proportion of the taser cases then "gun or taser" and are much more typical of police usage.

 

[Uiler]

*brings out the Soggy Carp of Thwapping*

So..are you saying I'm wrong in what I am saying?

Child abuse:

There are also several reported cases in the USA in which parents have disciplined their children with legally available stun guns: such incidents have been characterised as child abuse and sanctions taken against the parents. For example, in May 2003, in Texas, Theodore Moody was sentenced to two years&#8217; imprisonment on conviction of injuring and endangering a child, for having repeatedly jolted his eight-year-old stepson with a stun gun to hurry him along to school. Reminiscent of arguments used for adopting stun weapons in law enforcement, both parents reportedly told officers that they did not consider stun gun jolts harsh punishment, noting that they left fewer injuries than other forms of discipline such as the "strap". (63) In June 2003, a woman was arrested in Florida for placing a stun gun near to the ear of her 13-year-old daughter to frighten her for disobeying an order not to use a computer.(64) While US law enforcement policies specifically prohibit using instruments of restraint as punishment, the distinction can become blurred when stun weapons are used as a "compliance" or "control" tool.

An autopsy found that a foster mother&#8217;s use of a 70,000 volt stun gun on a malnourished seven-month old infant was a direct cause of his death, with the case report concluding that "stun guns are dangerous weapons".(169)

Extreme pain:

The training manual also states that, if used only in touch stun mode, the taser becomes a "pain compliance" tool and officers are instructed to apply it "aggressively" to sensitive areas, including the neck and groin.(73) Company representatives have told Amnesty International that the primary intent of the stun gun mode is to act as a back-up to the dart-firing function, in case the darts fail to hit their target or become dislodged when the target remains a threat and there is no back-up team or time to reload the cartridge. This is reportedly the only way in which they are permitted to be deployed in the UK. However, it appears that some US agencies frequently deploy tasers in stun gun mode, without using them primarily as a back-up to dart failure in stand-off situations.

Tasers in stun gun mode are particularly easy to use because there is no need to load or reload a cartridge. Their use may be less easy to monitor than the dart-firing function, especially if, as has been reported, the in-built memory chip fails or is not regularly downloaded (see safeguards).(74) As they are applied through touch stunning the subject&#8217;s skin or clothing, they tend to be used against individuals who are already in custody or under police control in some way. Amnesty International believes that these factors, together with the capacity to inflict severe pain to sensitive areas of the body, make the stun gun particularly open to abuse. Tasers in stun gun mode have been used to shock or threaten individuals restrained in police cars, hospitals and in local jails. In some instances they appear to have been used to punish prisoners for non-compliance or for simply yelling or "mouthing off" at officers.

n meetings with Amnesty International, Taser International has stressed that, unlike earlier models, the M26 and X26 tasers are not designed to stop a target through infliction of pain but work by causing instant immobilization through muscle contraction. According to the company they are one of the few non-lethal weapons effective in causing incapacitation without physiological injury. They have pointed out that any pain involved is transient, with no after-effects. However, officers subjected to even a fraction of the normal taser discharge during training have reported feeling acute pain:

"Bjornstad, who was jolted for 1.5 seconds as part of his training, said all of his muscles contracted and the shock was like a finger in a light socket many times over. "Anyone who has experienced it will remember it forever &#8230;You don&#8217;t want to do this. It&#8217;s very uncomfortable ... and that&#8217;s an understatement." (The Olympian, 14 October 2002)

"It&#8217;s like getting punched 100 times in a row, but once it&#8217;s off, you are back to normal again." (The Olympian 2 March 2002)F

"It felt terrible." "It hurts. I&#8217;m going to think twice before I use this on anyone." (two officers quoted in the Mobile Register 8 April 2002).

"It is the most profound pain I have ever felt. You get total compliance because they don&#8217;t want that pain again." (firearms consultant, quoted in The Associated Press 12 August 2003)

"They call it the longest five seconds of their life &#8230; it&#8217;s extreme pain, there&#8217;s no question about it. No one would want to get hit by it a second time." (County Sheriff, quoted in The Kalazazoo Gazette, Michigan, 7 March 2004)

Officers were initially exposed during training to only a fraction of the normal taser discharge of five seconds, yet still testified to experiencing considerable pain. Amnesty International understands that it is now recommended that officers are subjected to a five-second shock, although at least one department no longer allows officers to be tasered at all during training, following complaints from officers.(10) While the pain is short-lived, this would not necessarily apply in the case of someone subjected to repeated or prolonged jolts of the taser darts or stun gun (see below). Amnesty International has been told by an expert who has experienced shocks from both models that the X26 model is even more painful than the M26.

Although, as stated above, the M26 and X26 tasers are programmed to set off an automatic five-second electrical charge, this happens if an officer pulls the trigger and releases it. The electrical charge can be prolonged beyond five seconds if the officer keeps his finger depressed on the trigger. A Taser International training manual states that "holding the trigger continuously beyond the 5 second cycle will continue the electrical cycle until the trigger is released". The following testimony was given by a police training officer at an inquest into the death of William Lomax, who had a taser in stun gun mode applied repeatedly to his neck in jolts lasting up to eight seconds each:

"if you hold the trigger down, it will go until the battery life runs out of the tazer (sic)."
Juror: So it will go continuously until you let go?
Witness: correct."(14)

Tasered for arguing over his car being towed away (no threat of violence BTW):

A driver pulled over on a bridge, angry that his car was being towed away for lack of insurance, was tased after repeatedly complaining and turning his head and body towards an officer.

 

[carlosMM]

* Police responded to a report of a possible overdose and took an apparently intoxicated and possibly suicidal man to hospital. A police officer applied a taser to the man while he was restrained on a hospital bed, screaming for his wife. According to the police report, "Officer Furney repeatedly told Andre to be quiet and when he did not comply placed the Taser against Andre’s chest and tased him once". (Pueblo Police Department)

this one, to me, is nothing but torture.

as for most of the others: police in the US seem so paranoid by now that pure breathing freaks them out ('gun, gun, gun, there's a gun i sight... oh, it is only a hankie!' ) with the expected consequences.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

So..are you saying I'm wrong in what I am saying?

No, sorry if I wan't clear, I quite agree with you, and the Soggy Carp of Thwapping is a special item meant to thwack people who can't see a point once it's repeated a hundred times.
*hands Uiler an extra Soggy Carp of Thwapping with names on it*

 

[E-Raser]

Just wondering, why is this issue so important to you? 103 deaths is hardly significant. In the grand scheme, its a very minor issue.

What if one of those 103 would be you sister or father? Or you?!
Go and ask a cleric for absolution- I wouldn't.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Tasered for arguing over his car being towed away (no threat of violence BTW):

A driver pulled over on a bridge, angry that his car was being towed away for lack of insurance, was tased after repeatedly complaining and turning his head and body towards an officer.

Generaly as well as cop-wise, that is considered a threatening action.

 

[cegman]

An autopsy found that a foster mother’s use of a 70,000 volt stun gun on a malnourished seven-month old infant was a direct cause of his death, with the case report concluding that "stun guns are dangerous weapons".(169)

I'd say that this one is a little well extreme. I hope no one that isn't crazy would taser an infant. It was also malnurished so the mother was already mistreating it. This is hardly a case agaist taser use

Other than that I agree that the cops are too heavy handed and dangerous with tasers when untrained.

 

[Knowze Gungk]

What kind of pathetic person would use a taser on children? And come to that, what kind of pathetic justice system wouldn't strip them of their authority afterwards?

Any cop that can't phisically restrain a kid, without hurting them, has not earnd their badge.