mistersquare
Chieftain
I'm really new at this, and I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. So if I offend you by accident, I am sorry. Well, so as not to bore you, here goes.
I really enjoyed the premise of the Final Frontier mod, and it looked awesome, (especially post Blue Marble), but as most people could agree the gameplay, though among the best of the various mods offered in BTS, wasn't equal to that of the original game.
However, I am a bit of a science and science fiction geek, so the other thing that kind of got on my nerves was how scientifically off it was. Now I am not trying to blame anyone, and I'm sure some compromises were necessary to make a feasible mod. But I can't help wondering, was there a better way?
Take the Milky Way Galaxy for instance. It is 100,000 light years across and 1000 light years in width, approximately. So, if each tile represents a cube 1000 x 1000 light years, then the galaxy could be represented on a 100 by 100 map, which is not impossible. Or map with 50 squares radiating on each axis from the supermassive black hole at the center, for which using Final Frontiers animated black hole would be cool.
But the whole star system concept is a no, based simply on scale. Truthfully, they are really miniscule dots on a galactic scale. Now the star system animation and the planet build system was awesome as well, don't get me wrong. I think it could still be used, if only it was confined to the star system view (city view only) if that is possible. If that can get worked into the civ programming, and I have no clue if it is, then my mod will work.
Essentially then, what my concept is is that for the various terrain types, such as desert/ice, tundra, plains, hills, and grassland, we have corresponding tiles of artwork of different star densities, corresponding from lowest to greatest. With these tiles we can create actual circular shapes of galaxies, be they elliptical, spiral, or bar. This can even be one of the choices on the map creator!
Don't worry though, you will still have 'cities', but the city will essentially be your colonies first and most easily terraformed planetary system. It might look like a little white, yellow, orange?, red, or blue dot on the main map (for the colour of your star) with a circle of your stage II civilizations colour around the square, but if you double click on that you will come to your capital planet!
Basically this works on the anthropomorphic principle. Simply, we don't know how rare earthlike planets, or planets that can be terraformed to become earthlike with in-system resources, are. If we assume there is only one in every 1000 x 1000 light year cube of space (approximately 26 stars, give or take), then this works just fine.
Another one of the goals of my mod will be to bring it back a little closer to actual civ iv play than final frontier. As such, the asteroid fields and poisonous nebulas and destructive pulsar/supernova things have to go. But, we can still have mountains, as 1 square black hole animations, lakes (as spaces with no stars like the sea around the galaxy [to be realistic, all maps will be pangaea]), forest as a light green H I type interstellar gas (Hydrogen) over all terrain types, jungle as dark green H II type interstellar gas (hydrogen with Plasma and dust). These can be arranged in neat spirals or obstacle like clumps depending on your galaxy type, but unfortunately there can be no mountain (black hole) ranges, as these would quickly collapse into a supermassive I think.
Resources and luxuries will be a little more difficult, but not impossible. I don't like the idea of making basic construction materials difficult to acquire, but it would be easy to make a resource like a (rare) antimatter star system or a luxury like something that only grows on a specific planet that becomes a super-drug (not medicative, if that's what your thinking...)
Culture and terrain improvements also work quite easily. First, Culture. Essentially, it is assumed that in the interests of self defense, your colony sets up stations on all the nearby star systems. This creates the original city square. After a few turns of build up, your influence spreads to the eight squares around you as you harvest the systems around your city and spread your defensive net further to protect your mining fleet. This continues like normal culture spread. However, this means that you must choose which planet to build your cities, (colonies), on carefully as this means the planets adjacent 2 squares become unavailiable for major star systems! Now we get to improvements. Essentially, it is in these systems in which you choose to build the equivalents of mines (industrial production planetary facilities), farms (agriculture planets) and cottages (business planets - like tiny major star systems). Special farms can utilize xenocrops, special pastures xenowildlife, special mines rare materials, special plantations other xenoluxuries, and special work boats vacuum creatures! Now there is just the question of roads and railroads.
Yes, the science fiction of faster than light travel will need to be dealt with. We can avoid this for the early years by making travel slower than light and each turn many years long, just like the timing in the beginning of civilization. A road will then become like a jump gate, in a set direction for a set distance allowing faster than light travel between populated planets. A railroad could be like a huge transporter, allowing instantaneous transport to any populated planets. Both could still be built in space by gigantic worker construction machines.
Now, in case you were wondering at which civs this mod will use, I am willing to create a great deal. Perhaps we can have all the major empires from star trek, the two evolving sides from star wars, the factions from babylon 5, those from SMAC, those from master of orion, whatever you want, and not forgetting the originals from final frontier. Then, to play a game, you use the custom game option and select your civs there. I even have ideas for some unique ones of my own for the mod.
Now, this does create the thorny problem of different methods of space travel and warfare for each civ. I am willing to give them UU's to counteract this and focus the techs on the improvements and weapons and such. It won't be perfect for the true die hard fan, but it would be an approximation. Plus, quite soon in the game I envision warfare resembling air combat from civ, in which the propulsion method wont matter, and combat evolving from there. Plus, it could get some struggling mods off the ground if we all pulled together on something. Especially now that the BtS 3.19 patch is off the ground, it is probably a good time to start a new mod as it has probably sounded a death knell for some.
There could even be a victory condition like the space race, but instead it's the first ship to andromeda or some such...
I think I've geeked out enough for one night, so tell me what you think and I'll see how much more I should divulge of my master plan... ahahahaha
I really enjoyed the premise of the Final Frontier mod, and it looked awesome, (especially post Blue Marble), but as most people could agree the gameplay, though among the best of the various mods offered in BTS, wasn't equal to that of the original game.
However, I am a bit of a science and science fiction geek, so the other thing that kind of got on my nerves was how scientifically off it was. Now I am not trying to blame anyone, and I'm sure some compromises were necessary to make a feasible mod. But I can't help wondering, was there a better way?
Take the Milky Way Galaxy for instance. It is 100,000 light years across and 1000 light years in width, approximately. So, if each tile represents a cube 1000 x 1000 light years, then the galaxy could be represented on a 100 by 100 map, which is not impossible. Or map with 50 squares radiating on each axis from the supermassive black hole at the center, for which using Final Frontiers animated black hole would be cool.
But the whole star system concept is a no, based simply on scale. Truthfully, they are really miniscule dots on a galactic scale. Now the star system animation and the planet build system was awesome as well, don't get me wrong. I think it could still be used, if only it was confined to the star system view (city view only) if that is possible. If that can get worked into the civ programming, and I have no clue if it is, then my mod will work.
Essentially then, what my concept is is that for the various terrain types, such as desert/ice, tundra, plains, hills, and grassland, we have corresponding tiles of artwork of different star densities, corresponding from lowest to greatest. With these tiles we can create actual circular shapes of galaxies, be they elliptical, spiral, or bar. This can even be one of the choices on the map creator!
Don't worry though, you will still have 'cities', but the city will essentially be your colonies first and most easily terraformed planetary system. It might look like a little white, yellow, orange?, red, or blue dot on the main map (for the colour of your star) with a circle of your stage II civilizations colour around the square, but if you double click on that you will come to your capital planet!
Basically this works on the anthropomorphic principle. Simply, we don't know how rare earthlike planets, or planets that can be terraformed to become earthlike with in-system resources, are. If we assume there is only one in every 1000 x 1000 light year cube of space (approximately 26 stars, give or take), then this works just fine.
Another one of the goals of my mod will be to bring it back a little closer to actual civ iv play than final frontier. As such, the asteroid fields and poisonous nebulas and destructive pulsar/supernova things have to go. But, we can still have mountains, as 1 square black hole animations, lakes (as spaces with no stars like the sea around the galaxy [to be realistic, all maps will be pangaea]), forest as a light green H I type interstellar gas (Hydrogen) over all terrain types, jungle as dark green H II type interstellar gas (hydrogen with Plasma and dust). These can be arranged in neat spirals or obstacle like clumps depending on your galaxy type, but unfortunately there can be no mountain (black hole) ranges, as these would quickly collapse into a supermassive I think.
Resources and luxuries will be a little more difficult, but not impossible. I don't like the idea of making basic construction materials difficult to acquire, but it would be easy to make a resource like a (rare) antimatter star system or a luxury like something that only grows on a specific planet that becomes a super-drug (not medicative, if that's what your thinking...)
Culture and terrain improvements also work quite easily. First, Culture. Essentially, it is assumed that in the interests of self defense, your colony sets up stations on all the nearby star systems. This creates the original city square. After a few turns of build up, your influence spreads to the eight squares around you as you harvest the systems around your city and spread your defensive net further to protect your mining fleet. This continues like normal culture spread. However, this means that you must choose which planet to build your cities, (colonies), on carefully as this means the planets adjacent 2 squares become unavailiable for major star systems! Now we get to improvements. Essentially, it is in these systems in which you choose to build the equivalents of mines (industrial production planetary facilities), farms (agriculture planets) and cottages (business planets - like tiny major star systems). Special farms can utilize xenocrops, special pastures xenowildlife, special mines rare materials, special plantations other xenoluxuries, and special work boats vacuum creatures! Now there is just the question of roads and railroads.
Yes, the science fiction of faster than light travel will need to be dealt with. We can avoid this for the early years by making travel slower than light and each turn many years long, just like the timing in the beginning of civilization. A road will then become like a jump gate, in a set direction for a set distance allowing faster than light travel between populated planets. A railroad could be like a huge transporter, allowing instantaneous transport to any populated planets. Both could still be built in space by gigantic worker construction machines.
Now, in case you were wondering at which civs this mod will use, I am willing to create a great deal. Perhaps we can have all the major empires from star trek, the two evolving sides from star wars, the factions from babylon 5, those from SMAC, those from master of orion, whatever you want, and not forgetting the originals from final frontier. Then, to play a game, you use the custom game option and select your civs there. I even have ideas for some unique ones of my own for the mod.
Now, this does create the thorny problem of different methods of space travel and warfare for each civ. I am willing to give them UU's to counteract this and focus the techs on the improvements and weapons and such. It won't be perfect for the true die hard fan, but it would be an approximation. Plus, quite soon in the game I envision warfare resembling air combat from civ, in which the propulsion method wont matter, and combat evolving from there. Plus, it could get some struggling mods off the ground if we all pulled together on something. Especially now that the BtS 3.19 patch is off the ground, it is probably a good time to start a new mod as it has probably sounded a death knell for some.
There could even be a victory condition like the space race, but instead it's the first ship to andromeda or some such...
I think I've geeked out enough for one night, so tell me what you think and I'll see how much more I should divulge of my master plan... ahahahaha
