Are civilization advances dependent on time? Other factors?

[hecose]

Is it correct to assume that civilization advances are only dependent on the tech tree? i.e. you must have A before you can discover B. Is it also dependent on time? On type of government? On what other civilizations are doing? On what advances I already have?

1. There was once occasion when I could research Trade. I chose to research something else (I forgot what, just call it X). Then when I have discovered X, I get to choose again what I want to research. To my surprise, Trade is not in the list anymore. But I have not learnt Trade from other civs or obtained it by conquest. Then a few more discoveries later, Trade appears again in the list of choices. Any ideas?

2. Also, are some advances dependent on time? E.g. you can't research Gunpowder before 500BC or something like that.

3. Does the number of science beakers required to discover a new advance depend solely on time? E.g. in 2000BC you need 100 beakers to get a new advance but you need 4000 in 200AD. Does it also depend on the type of advance? E.g. 100 beakers for Seafaring and 3000 for Cure for Cancer.

 

[SunTzu]

Discovering new Technology depends on your science rate. The type of Government determines alittle bit of how fast you research tech.

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[hecose]

Sun Tzu,

I understand that the more beakers I produce (I assume that's what you mean by science rate) will determine how fast I can develop a civilization advance. However, are there other factors?

Any idea why the situation in Question 1 occurred?

2. Are certain advances only made available at a certain time? I.e. even if you have all the prerequisites, you still can't research it because it's too early in th game.

3. Do different types of technology cost different number of beakers? E.g. an advanced technology like Flight would cost more beakers than a basic technology like Writing.

I know I can adjust my tax rate (science rate), and governments like democracy and republic will increase trade (and thus science). Just want to find out whether there are other depencies. Thanks.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

I don't have definitive answers, but some probable theories (folks, lemme know if you know this is wrong):

1) Yes, I have seen tech opportunities present themselves, then disappear the next time. THEORY: I think the tech screen only gives you a limited # of choices (6?). If you have 6 choices, skip Trade this time, and discover something new that opens up 2 more possibilities, you've got 7 choices but 6 spaces. Something (Trade) may drop off until fewer techs are available to you again. Either that or there's some wacky logic to being an "Indian giver" if you dont' pick things right away.

2) I know of NO time constraints on tech. If you've discovered all the prereqs, it should be available to you (except when #1 happens, however it happens).

3) I do not believe tech has beaker costs like units/improvements have shield costs. I think the # of beakers you need for the next advance X (whatever you choose) just gets longer the more tech you discover. I've heard if you trade a lot of tech early it takes much longer to earn the next advance yourself. So I think its how many tech you have behind you, not the techs you choose ... except for chart position, "all techs are created equal" in this respect.

Again, these are from inference and experience ... nothing I've read, tested or proven. Please correct if wrong!

Spiff

 

[vladmir_illych_lenin]

Spiff,

1) Sometimes you only get two techs to research.

 

[Smash]

Forgive me for the bad explanation as it was oedo,not I that "discovered" it.The tech choices are handled by pre-requisits and a table,system whatever you want to call it.The game uses the pattern xxx0 in several things.Knowing what techs will be available when is now possible.

I think the best thing is for me to provide a link so you can decipher yourself
oedo's unfinished

Beaker requirement is culminative.It increases as you go along.There are some factors though.

map size-the bigger the more beakers required

tech lead-if you are far enough ahead you get "penalized" with extra beakers mysteriously being added to the total needed.Usually at the worst time too.

# of civs currently in the game-this does have effect.Less than 7 will also raise requirements.

Super Science City(SSC)-Collosus,Cope's Observatory,Sir Isaac's College and maybe Shake's Theater in the same city hopefully smack in the middle of a 4 terrain special site with rivers.Science will not be a problem again on any level.Guaranteed.Don't forget those trade routes either.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

delete, Duplicate infro in Smash's post.

[This message has been edited by Lefty Scaevola (edited January 11, 2001).]

 

[stellar converter]

yes, smash is correct, there are equations for how many beakers are required. i believe if you give techs away the req is less. helpfulin occ. i have encountered prob where i discover alph, cerm. bur., and code o laws, but monarchy wasnt up there. after i discovered next tech it did appear, however. no time restrictons. some techs have one prereq. some have two. if you have requirements for tech you can discover it. if you didnt know, prereq=prerequisites.

 

[hecose]

Smash, Thanks for pointing to me that thread by oedo. I am really impressed by what they have done over there!

And it's great to know that you can lower beaker requirements by giving away technology to other civs.

 

[Martin Schmidt]

It only depends on the tech tree what you may research . The number of choices which tech you may research next is basically random . The extrem is one tech available , that means no choice at all or all techs available . From my experience i think it depends what was available for last research too . If it wasnt available the last time the chance is great that it is available this time . It depends a little bit on the search categories too , for example i often dont research any war technologies at the beginning the result is that im able to research horse back riding and archers almost every time i get to the research screen .

 

[hecose]

Martin,

You might want to check out the thread "oedo's unfinished". Smash posted a link to that thread here. That thread has a very detailed analysis of how civilization advances are made available. It is actually not random.

 

[Martin Schmidt]

Thanks for the link ,
This is very interesting and i will read it in detail when i have the time . Now it becomes all very clear that i cant go for monarchy on the shortest way as i want to. As i understand it , it is claimed that research is not random *at all* . I have some difficulties to believe it but maybe a test (which i will do) convinces me .

 

[vladmir_illych_lenin]

How does Oedo figure all this stuff out? is he an algorithmist?

 

[oedo]

no, he´s a civ fanatic.
it took me about two days but finally I found it by an accident.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Now for more complete, but not more useful, information. Some one could do a test, using saved games, to see in the available/available/unavailable pattern is fixed but date, ie the count starts with the game start, or if it begins when the prerequisites for that tech are obtained.

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[TimTheEnchanter]

Lefty - read the "oedo's unfinished" link in smash's post up above. The trigger is not based on every 3 years, it has to do with how many techs you have discovered.

So assuming you don't get extra techs to start, and you don't get techs from goody huts, you will ALWAYS have to research something "off-topic" before getting to Monarchy regardless of how many years it takes for each discovery.



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There are some who call me...Tim

 

[Jamesds]

I read some of Odeo's unfinished, it was interesting, especially the formula. You have solved one of my CIV2MGE problems!

 

[Alias012345]

Does anyone have that information from "Odeo's Unfinished?" The page is gone (probably long). I'm trying to learn the Early Landing OCC game, and it seems like a necessity.

 

[TheNameless]

Does anyone have that information from "Odeo's Unfinished?" The page is gone (probably long). I'm trying to learn the Early Landing OCC game, and it seems like a necessity.

Can find most of the information in this forum post. In general each tech costs more then the last, and every 10 or so tech discoveries it has a big jump. You are also limited based on your tech position compared to the other civilizations. If you are in first place you require additional beakers.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tips-tricks-for-new-players.96725/