Cutthroat religion

[insaneweasel]

Okay, so now that we know approximately what the bonuses are for Pantehon/Founder/Follower beliefs, we can do some basic analysis for how it will help us win at the higher levels (immortal and diety).

At lower levels, we can easily play the religion game we want, but at the top levels maximizing returns is a must.

So far, it seems as though the territorial bonuses can range from great (like the +1 happiness for rivers) to terrible (the faith/culture from deserts and tundras. The thing is, will the healing and city power increase be required to stave off AI attacks, or has diplomacy improved to the point of making other choices worthwhile?

What are your thoughts?

 

[black213]

The defensive beliefs could have great synergy with Ethiopia + defensive wonders & policies.

 

[crawf0rd]

I was scared religion was going to turn to this, where there are a few dominant beliefs, like social policies. I guess it is very hard to perfectly balance these things.

 

[Simplicity4]

There's a LOT more beliefs than social policies. Plus, there's competition to get to the first founding. If they were all equally powerful, that competition wouldn't really have much meaning. I don't think it's going to get particularly stale. And even if it does, I'm sure modders will have a bunch more beliefs for us soon after release. Also, easy place for DLC to expand.

 

[Stefanskantine]

If you can take the bonus faith to desert/tundras as an early Pantheon, then use the extra faith to beat everyone to the first Great Prophet and found the first religion, those might be quite useful after all.

 

[wobuffet]

If you can take the bonus faith to desert/tundras as an early Pantheon, then use the extra faith to beat everyone to the first Great Prophet and found the first religion, those might be quite useful after all.

Yeah, there's definitely some interesting early- vs late-game development tradeoffs going on here.

 

[Stefanskantine]

Now that I think about it if the desert one applies to flood plains, it could even be situationally OP. You could build up a high pop city and be generating like 4x as much faith as anyone else, getting a huge head start on your religion. This does have some neat resonances with actual history though, with so many major religions coming out of the desert regions (Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

 

[MadDjinn]

Likely the most obvious point is 'balance'.

There's only so many ways to 'spend' faith, but taking too many of them will cause you to be bad at most of them.

So picking up multiple buildings might seem a good mix (and/or Holy Warriors), but you'll be hard pressed to ensure your religion spreads if you keep spending it before you grab missionaries or more Prophets/etc.

oh, and I'm not sure the +1 happy from river cities is that 'great'. How many river cities you can afford to settle will be the limit to that one. Maybe more culture is a better way to go, so that you can hit the +happy SPs earlier, or take more faith and get a building that can be added anywhere.

 

[insaneweasel]

Likely the most obvious point is 'balance'.

There's only so many ways to 'spend' faith, but taking too many of them will cause you to be bad at most of them.

So picking up multiple buildings might seem a good mix (and/or Holy Warriors), but you'll be hard pressed to ensure your religion spreads if you keep spending it before you grab missionaries or more Prophets/etc.

The question is how can faith be used most efficiently towards a victory. It seems as though buildings like mosques and cathedrals provide tiny benefits compared with using it for great people.

 

[Camikaze]

The question is how can faith be used most efficiently towards a victory. It seems as though buildings like mosques and cathedrals provide tiny benefits compared with using it for great people.

Wouldn't that depend on the relative costs of, for example, mosques (that was the culture heavy one, right?) vs. great people? I mean, if you're getting even a third as much out of a mosque as you'd be getting out of a landmark, for instance, then the mosque would only be clearly inferior if it was more than a third of the cost of a great person.

 

[bcaiko]

So far, it seems as though the territorial bonuses can range from great (like the +1 happiness for rivers) to terrible (the faith/culture from deserts and tundras.

If you're surrounded by tundra and/or desert (say, you have a starting bias for those tiles), the tundra/desert patheon beliefs won't be "terrible"...they'll be a saving grace. Depending on what you're up to, the extra culture or faith may make you want to actually work those tiles.