First time civ player could do with advice

[den1998]

Hi all

Ive never played a civ game before, i tend to be more into the sims to be honest, but my dad tends to play it a fair bit so i decided to try it!

I wanted to play the english and fight with navies and stuff, but i was told on steam that the computer doesnt play well with navies?. So after messing about with the settings i went for a 'donut' map with a bit of water in the middle as a compromise.

I jumped straight in at the middle difficulty 'king difficulty;, and i would love to win my first game right off the bat, ive been reading articles on steam and here tonight

Its very addictive, i have played it 4 hours straight.

I am stuck though and dont know what to do, i have made some bad mistakes (building a city with no food to grab iron which i thought i needed for weapons) and assyria has conquered my neighbor and from being friendly mates suddenly denounced me and is 'coveting my lands'

I bribed him to fight the aztecs, and bribed siam to attack him (sneaky !) but i think its a matter of time before he attacks me.

I am unsure wether to mass build my longbowmen and attack him, or hope he doesnt attack

If anyone can advise how they would play from here (save attached) i would be really grateful. I know i have made a lot of mistakes, please remember its my first game.

I do think it is still winnable from here?

Thanks

 

[Singularitie]

Hello and welcome,

I don't know how to download a save but the bit about the computer not being well with navies I can answer. In general, Ai civs dont make very big navies or use them effectively. This makes playing a naval game a little bit boring. But since it is your first game and you're on a difficulty like that, that may be a good thing.
I hope you win!

 

[den1998]

Hello and welcome,

I don't know how to download a save but the bit about the computer not being well with navies I can answer. In general, Ai civs dont make very big navies or use them effectively. This makes playing a naval game a little bit boring. But since it is your first game and you're on a difficulty like that, that may be a good thing.
I hope you win!

Thanks singularitie, thats what my friends on steam who play it say, so i went for a land map with a bit of water in the middle.

I think my longbowmen are good...and everyone has denounced assyria now, so im tempted to fight him... but i dont know if its the smart move, his army is bigger than mine apparently, he contacted me just to tell me how pathetic my army is?

 

[Singularitie]

Well if he is at war with two people, it may be possible to snag his capital before he can get his army to defend himself. Until I learn how to download save, I can't do any more.

 

[Singularitie]

Alright, I have figured out how to open the save. I will assume that you go for a domination victory. If so, you may want a few galleasses to take amsterdam. You may want 2-3 knights as only melee units can take cities. Also, I recomment that you build maybe 3 more longbowmen to add to the three that you have near amsterdam. That should be enough to take Amsterdam.

 

[LordBalkoth]

Den, do you want me to make a video of me playing your game?

Also, what type of victory are you hoping to achieve? Your options are Science (finish tech tree and launch spaceship), Diplomatic (ally with city states and win World Leader vote), Cultural (get lots of Tourism), and Domination (control all original capitals).

 

[twilson1972]

I wouldn't take Amsterdam as a priority, it is not his capital it is Williams.

Personally i would head for a science victory. You cant reach many of the capitals with ships on this map, its not an ideal map to play the english.

Your close to navigation so get that (ship of the line will work great to bombard anyone messing with your coastal cities) - then head for scientific theory and build public schools.

Industrialization would be nice too.. your long-bowman will upgrade into super ranged gatling guns which will mince anyone attacking you, build some more ready for the upgrade.

 

[LordBalkoth]

I finished playing through the game to a cultural victory. Sort of peaceful -- basically I played World Police and restored William (The Netherlands) from annihilation twice and punished the aggressors. Recorded it and am processing the videos (split it in two) if you want to watch how it worked out, I have a lot of general commentary in the game as well.

Personally i would head for a science victory. You cant reach many of the capitals with ships on this map, its not an ideal map to play the english.

The only map NOT "ideal" to play the English (when it comes to domination) is one where you can't 3 range cities due to bad terrain. I could have won the game probably within 50-75 turns if I simply used Longbowmen to destroy everything. Maybe I'll even go back and play it as pure conquering just to see -- main problem is only having 6 Longbowmen at the start and having a lot of ground to cover. Even if you knock out a city every 4 turns (counting travel time) that's 28 turns for just the capitals and you'll probably need to take some others along the way. And it'll take longer than 4 turns per city initially for sure, maybe you could speed it up enough to reach that point with another army marching the opposite way around the donut (but first you'd need to build that second army).

Not saying there's anything wrong with a peaceful Science Victory (you'll note I won a peaceful Cultural victory), I'm not actually fond of Domination in general as Civ's combat is pretty bad compared to actual RTS games.

 

[den1998]

The video would be cool to watch thanks!


Part of my problem was i couldnt decide between racing into space or trying to take over the world. And yes i think my army was way too small :-i always had other things i wanted to build, but should focus more on military

Ill play it through myself now and see what happens but look forward to the videos

 

[LordBalkoth]

And yes i think my army was way too small

Well...too small for what?

I mean, the save starts on turn 144. I declared war that turn on Assyria and on turn 170 I liberated the city-state he had conquered earlier...and that was AFTER liberating William's three cities. So 26 turns to conquer/liberate four cities. The only new unit I built was one Horseman (that I upgraded into a Knight) so I could keep capturing the cities.

I strongly suspect I could have taken that army of six Longbowmen, a Pikeman, and a Knight and used it to conquer most (or all) of the world.

That said, since people (surprisingly) get mad at you for conquering everyone, I would have needed another army to be able to hold off Siam -- wouldn't want my main army to be fighting China and then have Siam DoW me with no units in my own territory.

On higher difficulties that wouldn't work since the AI will have more units (meaning it'll take longer to take cities) and the AI will tech faster (meaning the Longbowmen will become too weak and need to be upgraded and/or replaced with Artillery), mind you. With a larger Longbowmen army you could probably pull it off but you're basically racing against time until you lose that major combat advantage.

Probably won't have the videos available on Youtube until tomorrow (Tuesday) morning, but we'll see how long the processing/uploading takes.

Could probably do another video where I just set out to conquer everyone with that initial army but with being England and the AI only being on King it would kind of feel like taking candy from a baby, I suspect.

 

[den1998]

well i won turn 353 which i imagine is horribly slow (i went into space)

some odd things happened, siam who i had been friends with most the game and who had been marching his troops through my land to fight assyria suddenly denounced me despite me being peaceful

i built a big army, to dissuade people from attacking me, noone did, but all but theodora denounced me, and theodora asked me not to kill her (she went to 'afraid' despite my peaceful play)

I got x-coms in 1900 about 30 years before i could make a spaceship??

I am chuffed i won a game, im just debating whether to move to the next difficulty for my second game or play another king game, in the end i was about 20 techs ahead of the nearest competitor (siam)

 

[twilson1972]

353 is fine for king, on high levels people tech faster because the ai pulls them along initially (techs are cheaper if everyone has them, bulbs from caravans and also spies steal more)

king is never going to be a challenge even for newbies, definitely go emperor.

 

[LordBalkoth]

well i won turn 353 which i imagine is horribly slow (i went into space)

Turn 353 Science Victory for your first game is actually very impressive (since you're on Standard speed). In fact, that's fast enough to win a decent chunk of Deity games (and Deity would probably even be slightly faster, all else equal, due to cheaper earlier techs).

some odd things happened, siam who i had been friends with most the game and who had been marching his troops through my land to fight assyria suddenly denounced me despite me being peaceful

That can happen for any of several reasons:

1, he thinks you're weak (military wise) and is planning on attacking.
2, you've built wonders he wanted
3, you've allied with city states he wanted
4, you declared friendship with people he doesn't like
5, you proposed stuff in World Congress he doesn't like

This is all mathematical behind the scenes. Say you total up everything you've done nice and he likes you with a score of -80 (negative is actually good in this case, positive is bad). Then you do something worth +20...which leaves you at -60. So he still likes you a lot overall and will remain friends, even if he isn't thrilled with that specific thing.

But then say you do another thing worth +40. Suddenly you're only -20 with him. And then another worth +40...okay, he now actually dislikes (+20 overall) you but still declared friendship and will try to avoid breaking that until it runs out. And then another +40 thing...so now you're at +60, and he's had enough, and he denounces you.

These numbers aren't exact but you get the general idea.

Of course, if he's simply planning on invading you because he thinks you're a vulnerable target and never liked you all that much in the first place then you might not need to go through the whole sequence.

Different AIs have different "flavors" is this regard. Both Attila (of the Huns) and Shake (of the Zulus) are major warmongers and love to war/conquer. That said, if you manage to befriend Shaka (which can be very difficult, especially if you're near him since he's inclined to try to come and take your stuff) he is a phenomenally loyal ally and, if he ever stops liking you, will be extremely clear about it and you'll have ample warning. Attila, on the other hand...is just looking for an opportunity to stab you in the back. Doesn't matter how much you do for him or how much he claims to like you...he will backstab you as soon as he sees an opening.

I got x-coms in 1900 about 30 years before i could make a spaceship??

If you play even remotely well, the turns and years will quickly stop making sense. Don't try to actually relate them. It's based on a much slower science speed.

I am chuffed i won a game, im just debating whether to move to the next difficulty for my second game or play another king game, in the end i was about 20 techs ahead of the nearest competitor (siam)

Honestly, if you won Science on turn 353 and Standard speed...I'd try Immortal next (skip over Emperor). Conceivably you could even start attempting Deity but I wouldn't suggest it as things are dramatically different and will probably slow you down (due to the AI receiving massive advantages).

 

[den1998]

Ahh ive already started an emperor game, pangea and korea- ive read the guide and it seems specialists are key so im going to get just a few cities out (3 maybe 4) and focus on food production and building as many specialist buildings as i can. It sounds like korea are for science wins but i figure if i can get a tech lead i can fight too.

My start is horrible, desert, with a couple of incense but no food other than flood plains, i think all those gems in my last game was lucky

I also have napoleon and montzenuma right next to me so it may be interesting

Thanks for all the tips