Genghis Strat

Smak

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Joined
May 1, 2006
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The idea behind barbarians is to quickly generate a raiding force while the enemy builds up tasty cities, then sweep in with powerful mounted archerers killing everything in sight.

Opening moves:

A. Start the game near an ocean and river tile that is within range of seafood.

[Do this to gain #1 the health benefits of the fresh river water and harbors you can build later, but #2 more importantly for the commerce early on. Tiles along rivers provide 1 extra gold, and seafood tiles when harvested are a loaf + of food and a few gold.]

B. First build is scout

[You begin with a scout, but they are fragile and only useful in the early stages of the game before human barbarians appear. You will need to see all around you to locate juicy targets and to spot horses later. A bear has a good chance of killing your scout unless you are on a forested hill across a river. When you move around enter a flat square then duck back into a forest or hill for the defense from fast moving wolves, and wandering beasts. You will get the first promotion quickly, use it to buy combat 1 (starting scout has no agressive traits) after combat 1 or if it was the scout you built yourself (free combat 1) buy MEDIC then run him back to your starting city]

C. First research is fishing

[We want to hook up that huge food and tech bonus as quickly as we can]

D. Second build starts as work boat

[If fishing has not been researched by the time you finish the scout, put barracks on build queue to idle for a few turns then lay work boat on top of it]

E. Second research is pottery

[When your city gets to 2 population, lay a worker on top of the fishing boat. We want the worker timed to pop out within a few turns of getting pottery. At 2 population on marathon mode it typically takes 24 turns to make a worker. Do not worry if this slows the fishing boat down alot, that boat is going to grow your city fast and you need improved tiles to work with first.]

F. Third build is worker

[See above]

G. Third research is archery

[During this time, build 3 cottages along the river. Since you placed your city next to the ocean and a river you will have at least 3 watered tiles if the river is 2 in length or more. We place these here to gain the river commerce bonus, to min max along with our eventual towns income.]

H. Fourth build is letting the barracks finish

[We want this barracks in place before we build any military units.]

I. Fourth research is animal husbandry

[By now we should have our 3 cottages up, start laying down roads connecting these fragile improvements to the city. Also lay down roads 1 or 2 tiles inland parallel to the coast, and one road directly inland from the city as troop movement roads. The one worker we built initially is sufficient, we will enslave the enemy workers soon...]

J. Fifth build is a queue of 4 archerers

[Keep your scout medic in your city so he can rush out to heal when needed. Place one archerer near the end of each road you just made. Best spot is outside your culture border in a hill or forest tile.]

K. Fifth research is horseback riding

[This is the final tech you need to build the most powerful ancient/classic horsemen in the game. With 6 strength, 2 move ignoring turrain features, and the ability to give them withdraw 2 making them immune to first strike... They can tear apart defending archerers, and thats all you will come up against during your first war of conquest really.]

L. Sixth build is a constant stream of keshiks

[As the early horse archerers wait for their comrades to be built, send them out to nearby barbarians to practice on the wandering warriors and archerers they like to spit out.]

M. Sixth research is bronze working

[This is used to chop all the trees in your well defended cultural border churning out a large wave of keshiks. You will also end up growing your population beyond your ability to keep them happy. Use slavery to create even more keshiks. Then lay down cottages along the rest of the river tiles.]

After this, I suggest heading for alphabet to trade for or demand techs you skipped. Depending on your play style, you can either wipe out the enemy civs or terribly cripple them and demand tributes the rest of the game. Shifting focus from the now weak civ to the strongest one. If you let any civs live in peace they will outbuild/tech you and pikemen will laugh at your horsemen.

Trying to attach the game i just started, this is at 1500 BC and im about to start making my first keshik.

http://apolyton.net/go.php?forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4408965
 
This strategy appears to be a one city strategy as you dont mention settler once. 2-3 cities can pump out more units than one. Captured cities 10-15 squares away have higher upkeep.

The mongal UU looks fun but archers are a no no for me unless you lack copper/ iron.

Dont mind the workboat strategy at start if you have fish as this can boost city growth and speed up settler production. I doubt bronze working as 6th tech to research would sit pretty with me. Couldnt reach the link you provided on site.
 
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152078

Thats the thread the link is in, at first clicking it doesnt seem to do anything. Theres a skip button in top right (im guessing its one of those advertisement pages with the "continue to the site" sort of key. Although in this case the ad was bugged or not displayed on my comp, hitting skip automatically loaded civ4 on my comp and ran the saved game.

Its also possible you need to login to that other fansite/forums to view/download.

Gonna see if this site here has upload options for saved games or at least let me post a screenshot of the game,

You are correct it begins as a one city game until horseback riding. Then you explode across the map capturing cities. I captured my first city with just the one horse archerer. Then captured second with 2 of them, and razed the 3rd accidently since it was only 1 pop yet.

With the mongol horde you either need to raze cities after first few, or capture and slave down to 1 population before leaving it undefended.

OR, my fun thing is to capture all but the capitol of the closest civ. By the time i finish this im burning a ton of gold a turn. But every capture nets 100+ gold whether i raze or not. So i capture and set research to 100%. This created a tech advantage for me. Typically i will have alphabet before they find ironworking ect.

But the fun part i was getting to... You gift these cities to other civs. Their economy struggles to cover the upkeep costs. Then you make peace with the now "pruned to one city" loser and backstab the next one you just gave cities to... Take all their ORIGINAL cities, let them keep your expensive gifts.

Repeat the process but keep 1 or 2 civs at friendly terms to assist you if you get in over your head. rampaging and pillaging.
 

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i dunno about this. imo horsearcher rush kinda sux. against a human opponent they will either have spears or else axerush you first.

with genghis i'd rather go rex with axerush first and then slowly build toward keshiks to provide extra punch to my sword+cata assault.
 
No offense, but what difficulty level have you played this on?
1500BC to start building an attack force seems awfully slow to me, by that time I'd expect everyone and their mothers to have spears.
 
I think spearmen really make just the Mongal UU a real no no. there are cheaper units but not as mobile. The unit has its uses.
 
I don't go for the Flanking promotions, instead I get Combat I and Shock, then maybe Combat II if the barbs are training you.

basic spearman is effective 8 strength while the promoted keshik is 8.1+, enough to keep the spear at bay, it actually seems to work better than the numbers suggest because the combat system is skewed towards high base strengths over large bonuses. that and the AI doesn't make many spearman, so it helps me mow down the axes and swords. one of the best promotions though is the visibility promotion, helps me do more with limited units and budget, I always have one of these in my stacks.

generally though it's tough being genghis, Expansion is weak and Aggressive doesn't complement his signature mounted units.
 
Your Keshik is at 6.6 (combat I), the spear at 7 (+75%: 100%-25% for shock), so you'll have odds around 30-35% I think. Not so good. :(
I never played with Mongols, I'd regard the keshik as a UU that might be useful to assist, but not as the big part of your army. Better go with axers as usual, that's what aggressive is useful for.
 
Thrar said:
Your Keshik is at 6.6 (combat I), the spear at 7 (+75%: 100%-25% for shock), so you'll have odds around 30-35% I think. Not so good. :(
I never played with Mongols, I'd regard the keshik as a UU that might be useful to assist, but not as the big part of your army. Better go with axers as usual, that's what aggressive is useful for.
you gotta point, but when I play mongol I don't for winning so much as a kind of roleplaying mongol pillaging experience.

I was plugging a few things into this
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/proc/civ4/combat_calc.htm

and it seems to recommend just getting Combat promotions I through IV as the quickest way to get them capable of defending against spears. That could be tough since I can't get more than 10exp from barbs. I guess I'll have to take one of the lightly defended cities on the border and enslave them to give me an axemen defender and other helpful units, too bad though, I enjoy the keshik's movement advantage.
 
Combat 1, 2, 3 ect for keshiks is solid. But i prefer to promote the majority of my army to be immune to first strikes + the additional withdraw bonus before spending on the 10% combat. I find defending archerers to die alot easier once you take away their first strike powers.

As to the spearman issue...

First off, all my attacking "stacks" generally consist of 3-5 vets with 3 or more promotions and 2-3 green troops fresh from the barracks. And at least one defender, archerer with several first strike promotions is best.

When i attack an enemy unit or city i first position the stack next to the target in defendable turrain (forests and or hills) with no rivers in my path of attack.

Then i send in one or two of my rookie troops (most of the time with withdraw 1 from barracks). This will soften up the most dangerous defenders. And suprisingly often my rookie will survive the attack by withdrawing or killing the enemy for his first promotion.

Only then do i commit my vet troops to soak up exps off the weak defenders.

I havent seen a spearman kill more than one of my keshiks before he died.

Something else to consider...

If your enemy goes crazy with the spearmen, like 80% of his force all spearmen. You can be sure hes not a threat. No spearman rush is going to kill axemen or archerers, and most civs ai or real people will use much other than axemen and archerers before feudalism.

On a side note, i think the defending bonus for greek spearmen on hills and the defending bonus for jaguars in jungles should also eliminate the penalty for attacking into those turrain too. Meaning, if a unit is so well suited to fight in a certain turrain they should be able to know how to strike someone defending in said turrain. As it stands the greek spearman with his 1 extra str seems underpowered compared to other "UU". And the jaguar is laughable, IRON for a 5? str unit who's only virtue is hiding in jungles... Hell give these type of units movement bonus as well in their specific turrain.
 
The small Keshik army, 5-6, works great to pillage enemy lands and keep them busy while your main army marches in. you may lose a few to spearman in the beginning but after the roads are pillaged theiur lands are usually yours for the taking.
 
Smak said:
You will get the first promotion quickly, use it to buy combat 1 (starting scout has no agressive traits) after combat 1 or if it was the scout you built yourself (free combat 1) buy MEDIC then run him back to your starting city]

No scout starts with free combat 1, whether trained or not. Only melee and gunpowder units get it, and scouts are neither.

Besides, aggressive civs that start with a warrior get free combat 1 on that warrior, so it doesn't matter if it was trained or not.
 
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