How do so-called "woke" movies fare financially? A study.

[Gori the Grey]

Over on this thread:

[RD] - Do 'woke' films go broke? (from LGBTQ news)

But I've been told "Go woke, go broke" you see... and IT RHYMES! So it MUST be correct! It's more in relation to movies which is where the phrase is from. Can't really alienate 40%+ of domestic market so kinda true.

forums.civfanatics.com

we are discussing the proposition that if a movie "goes woke," it will "go broke."

I propose a quasi-scientific, year-long study of the proposition.

For each Hollywood release between Aug 1 2023 and July 31 2024, with a budget of $90 million or more, @Zardnaar has agreed, before the movie's release, working from pre-release advertising and discussion of the movie, to declare whether or not the film appears to be "woke," by his definition of that term.

We will track how the films he places in the woke category fare financially, with non-woke movies serving as the comparator group.

This thread is not the thread for discussion of the meaning of "woke." For purposes of this thread, Zardnaar is the sole arbiter of what is "woke." (Though others who are willing to make the year-long commitment are also invited to sort each movie into the category of woke or non-woke).

For purposes of this study, "woke" and "non-woke" are an absolute, mutually exclusive binary. There is no scale. A movie must be categorically labeled "woke" or "non-woke" before it begins its run. Will the "woke" ones, then, "go broke"?

 

[Gori the Grey]

I will maintain the running list of movies, their budgets and their eventual earnings, in this post, so one can always consult the first page of the thread for the accumulating data.

 

[Gori the Grey]

First up, opening August 2:

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mutant Mayhem:

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem (2023) ⭐ 7.2 | Animation, Action, Adventure

1h 39m | 6

www.imdb.com

 

[Zardnaar]

Over on this thread:

[RD] - Do 'woke' films go broke? (from LGBTQ news)

But I've been told "Go woke, go broke" you see... and IT RHYMES! So it MUST be correct! It's more in relation to movies which is where the phrase is from. Can't really alienate 40%+ of domestic market so kinda true.

forums.civfanatics.com

we are discussing the proposition that if a movie "goes woke," it will "go broke."

I propose a quasi-scientific, year-long study of the proposition.

For each Hollywood release between Aug 1 2023 and July 31 2024, with a budget of $90 million or more, @Zardnaar has agreed, before the movie's release, working from pre-release advertising and discussion of the movie, to declare whether or not the film appears to be "woke," by his definition of that term.

We will track how the films he places in the woke category fare financially, with non-woke movies serving as the comparator group.

This thread is not the thread for discussion of the meaning of "woke." For purposes of this thread, Zardnaar is the sole arbiter of what is "woke." (Though others who are willing to make the year-long commitment are also invited to sort each movie into the category of woke or non-woke).

For purposes of this study, "woke" and "non-woke" are an absolute, mutually exclusive binary. There is no scale. A movie must be categorically labeled "woke" or "non-woke" before it begins its run. Will the "woke" ones, then, "go broke"?

You're the one who's claiming there's no scale.

A movie can be partly woke the more preachy it is the worse its probably gonna be.

 

[Zardnaar]

First up, opening August 2:

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mutant Mayhem:

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem (2023) ⭐ 7.2 | Animation, Action, Adventure

1h 39m | 6

www.imdb.com

No idea but it's animated and doesn't look overly woke but I haven't seen it and unlikely to see it as I haven't cared about TMNT since 1990 or so.

 

[Kyriakos]

Movies can fail without being woke, or succeed while (but imo typically not due to) being woke.
But when you know that presenting some stuff will ensure massive free publicity (because of negative reaction), you have to factor this in too. What's the point of relying on a good story, when the other movie will get 99% of the traffic due to how easy even not particularly bright youtubers found it to make videos about/against it?

The more superficial, up to downright dumb, something is, the more people can comment on it positively or negatively.

 

[Zardnaar]

Movies can fail without being woke, or succeed while (but imo not due to) being woke.
But when you know that presenting some stuff will ensure massive free publicity (due to negative reaction), you have to factor this in too. What's the point of relying on a good story, when the other movie will get 99% of the traffic due to how easy even not particularly bright youtubers found it to make videos about/against it?

Yup and marketing also comes into it as well.

I don't think it's an absolute but much like anything to much is to much.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You're the one who's claiming there's no scale.

A movie can be partly woke the more preachy it is the worse its probably gonna be.

For purposes of testing the proposition "go woke, go broke" it must be treated as an absolute (since the proposition treats it as such).

 

[Zardnaar]

For purposes of testing the proposition "go woke, go broke" it must be treated as an absolute (since the proposition treats it as such).

That's not what I'm talking about.

Main point is for a big budget blockbusters you need to have a big tent that can also appeal across cultures.

Boom boom for most part (action, superheroes). Comedy for example doesn't translate well.

For the reactionary type anything more progressive than say Blade (boom boom) is woke. If a centre left or right person says a movie is to woke its probably to preachy. If a liberal says it's to woke ot very preachy and if a progressive says it's to woke ots probably something like Cleopatra.

It's all about the nuance in how it's made, target audience, and genre.

Barbies out in a few days (tomorrow here). Using my list did they race swap Barbie. No. Did they race swap Ken. No. Who's the target audience mostly girls although it's blown up online and it's PG13 iirc so not a kids movie (I beat a few will see it).

It might have some feminist type stuff in it but as long as it's not to ham fisted and over the top who cares as one expects that from the type of movie it's being part social commentary, satire clever writing (perhaps).

I don't think you're gonna see a girl boss archetype I don't recall any of the stars or director saying you're sexist if you don't go see it. Or say something about emasculating men.

So if Barbies a woke movie it's probably on the lower end of it.

Guess we will know in a few days.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

If a liberal says it's to woke ot very preachy and if a progressive says it's to woke ots probably something like Cleopatra.

Definitely makes the definition hard.

A full blown "woke" movie would be a stinker because that's usually something like race swapping an established character (to go along with the Cleopatra example). Which is low effort and indicates a lack of creativity and talent on the part of the writers.

Wakanda Forever, by contrast, was an original creation and was well received. Also required the writers to build a whole new universe. Wouldn't be woke except to die hard rightoids.

 

[RobAnybody]

For purposes of this study, "woke" and "non-woke" are an absolute, mutually exclusive binary. There is no scale. A movie must be categorically labeled "woke" or "non-woke" before it begins its run. Will the "woke" ones, then, "go broke"?

Can we not have this discussion in this thread? It's an interesting experiment that Gori has proposed. @Zardnaar says Yay or Nay. We abide by that (granted, he doesn't get to be wishy-washy about it). And we just see how it goes? I'd like to see the results.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You can have a scale @Zardnaar But you also need a watershed. In the case of each film, you are saying "I think the woke elements in that are so pronounced that they will interfere with its earning money." Or not.

Doesn't matter what reactionaries or liberals would think. You have been made sole arbiter.

Barbie's not in the mix because it opens before our start date. Your initial judgment on TMNT seems like it's "not woke." You can change that up until opening night.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've no idea what a movie about Barbies would entail, other than free advertising for the toy company.

That said: Do guys have any clue how much nudity is involved in playing with Barbie dolls? You're constantly putting outfits on the dolls and taking them off, in search of the perfect combination. Some of my own creations don't even involve doll clothes; I'd flange up outfits from scraps of lace and sew or pin them together. Must've been the Star Trek influence at work there, since that's how some of Bill Theiss' costumes were flanged up for the Original Series.

For most of the time they've existed, Barbies never wore underwear unless it was part of the manufacture of the torso part of their bodies. Unless the clothes that go on top are very loose-fitting, there is no way in hell that you're going to get a Barbie into a pair of Barbie underpants and expect the trousers to fit at all, let alone without unsightly, bulging panty lines.

There's a guy who sells old Barbies and outfits who occasionally turns up in my eBay feed (he used to sell miniature gaming stuff; I think I bought some Monopoly tokens from him a decade ago). The other day I had a look at the Barbie he was using for a model. The factory painted white underpants on her, and it looks hideous.

My grandmother got upset one day at how 'immoral' the Barbies were without underwear. She carried on until I told her okay, I'd try to figure something out, at least for the 18" dolls that tended to have looser-fitting clothing.

I flanged up underwear by cutting up an old pair of pantyhose and making doll underwear from it. They were thin enough that the outer clothing fitted easily and nothing was visible on the outside. My grandmother was so pleased that she told her friends how clever I was to have made underwear for her Barbies (she started collecting them as a hobby and would sew clothes for them; this is an acceptable hobby for grown women).

I still have two of those dolls sitting on a shelf in the room where I'm typing this right now. No, I don't play with them anymore.

 

[lymond]

Moderator Action: Thread closed until further notice