I am not getting the "Attack in 10 Turns" thing

[DocRock]

Hi all,

I finally got into CiV thanks to BNW. But I do not understand the diplomatic AI. I planned to attack the Songhai and right at the moment the Chinese and - 1 turn later - the Spanish Civ asked me to join them in their attack. Well, what a perfect timing!

But I still needed some to time to upgrade my cannons, so I told them to "wait 10 turns".

So after 6-7 turns, the Songhai asked me what my armys are doing at his front so I decided to declare a little earlier (to avoid the diplomatic issues).

The war is going on well, but neither the Chinese nor the Spanish are helping. Furthermore, they both denounced me that I cannot trusted.

I mean... seriously?

 

[Cerilis]

It was a trap. They wanted to show the world your aggressive nature and then denounce you for it.

 

[Ryika]

If you declare war before the 10 turns are over, then the Ai won't recognize it as part of the deal.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

Actually, they might think you didn't kept your promise because you attacked too early

Imagine how the Americans would be pissed off if the British didn't wait for them for D-Day

 

[phillipwyllie]

DOWing incurs a warmonger penalty, albeit small compared to capturing cities. If other civs are already at war or you declare in response 10 turns later there is no warmonger score incurred with those civs. If you DOW before then you incur a warmonger score. Some civs don't tolerate warmongering at all even though they may be the biggest ones, which translates into hate which would've tipped Spain over the edge to denounce you(thus breaking the 10 turn pledge).

 

[Princeofnigeria]

Actually, they might think you didn't kept your promise because you attacked too early

Imagine how the Americans would be pissed off if the British didn't wait for them for D-Day

Look up the Dieppe raid and prepare to be amazed at a level of human stupidity that you probably couldn't believe was possible.

 

[DocRock]

Hmm ok... good to know. Is there a way to see why your "friendly" neighbour denounces you?

Rome did that to me a turn ago, just after we set up our Research Pact... nothing else actually happened, so I have no clue why he did that. Is there a mod that shows straight numbers like in Civ 4? That was so helpful.

 

[joncnunn]

Hmm ok... good to know. Is there a way to see why your "friendly" neighbour denounces you?

Rome did that to me a turn ago, just after we set up our Research Pact... nothing else actually happened, so I have no clue why he did that. Is there a mod that shows straight numbers like in Civ 4? That was so helpful.

There's normally red text that gives the clue.
Often the reason if they were friendly right before is that a civ they like more than you has denounced you.

 

[reddishrecue]

The 10 turn attack thing does work... if you don't do anything about it after agreeing for the 10 turns, the ai will ask you and let you know that the 10 turns are up and it's time to attack. Then, you get to re choose if you want to attack or not.

 

[LoneRebel]

It was a bad situation. When you agree to one of those 10-turn double declarations, you need to wait for your ally to approach you and say "It's time."

If you declare war early, they will not hold up their end of the agreement, and more bizarrely, they'll consider you a lone aggressor, as if they weren't planning on declaring war themselves.

But since Songhai challenged you on your units near their borders, that makes matters even worse, since you either have to declare war then and there or sign a non-aggression pact which, if broken, severely damages your reputation with every civ in the game. Better avoid putting too many units near another civ's borders in the future.

 

[BigChiefLizzy]

Also be wary of promising to join them in an attack in 10 turns, then when they prompt you to start the war, change your mind and refuse to do so. I think this gives a (big?) diplo penalty, with that civ as you let them down.

I've not done this often but if I remember right I got denounced straight away by my would-be ally when I declined to help after 10 turns....

Just wish you could warn the target (Civ 'B') in these situations for positive diplo, you can when one of yours spies uncovers an AI plot, but not when Civ 'A' approaches you direct and asks you to help crushing Civ 'B'

 

[DocRock]

As this is quite the same topic and I do not want to start a new thread I take my old one (I hope that is ok!).

Regarding diplomacy.. in my current game, I got DOW'ed by Greek, Rome and Carthagian somehow. Naturally this war lasts a while and I am on a good road to annihilate the original aggressor Greek. So.. during the past turns, all my friends status went from friendly to neutral. BECAUSE THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT MY WARMONGERING.

Is this some kind of a joke? I mean, it's like everybody says "hey c'mon UK, stop your war against Hitler, man.. why are you defending yourself anyways..".

They - attacked - me. Without any freaking reason, just because their military was bigger than mine. Now that I am defending and taking his cities, I am the warmonger?

Is there anything to prevent this.. if it's not in the game... maybe a mod, that fixes this stupid (!) diplomacy?

 

[Ryika]

Don't conquer cities, instead kill their armies and pillage their lands, then take some cities as part of a peace deal - you'll not get a warmonger hit for any of this.

Or use Mods like Less Warmonger Hate

 

[poekie70]

I use a mod where there is no such thing as warmongering so I can take 10 city states and still be on good terms with everyone or raze a few empires to the ground and no one cares

 

[tetley]

Generally I just choose to DOW immediately and dont bother to wait 10 turns. Not unless ive got a trade deal or something going with that victim that i would have to break.

 

[DocRock]

OK thanks for your help here.. I managed to drive the first Greek aggressor out of the game, but now I at war with everyone. Because I was defending myself.. I think they took this whole "winning peaceful" theme way too far in BNW. I'll Try the Lesser Warmonger Mod, thanks.

By the way I took Alexander down to one city with one pop and he still did not want to negotiate peace. I highly doubt that pillaging would have worked better.

 

[householder]

Is there a mod that shows straight numbers like in Civ 4? That was so helpful.

Yes, it is called Diplomacy Values.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=169448644

The mod is quite nice. It might make the game too easy, though.

 

[DocRock]

Great, thanks guys.

Am I the only one that thinks this behaviour is plain stupid? Just check this: http://i.imgur.com/JBwFcvq.jpg

I am war with everybody now. Because I got attacked by a Civ and drove them back. I asked them 20 times whether they want to negotiate peace, they did not accept.

 

[davelisowski]

I would wipe the floor with Songhai and then turn sights on the Spanish or Chinese.