National Wonders - How many do you use?

[PhilBowles]

Hermitage and Visitor I haven't played enough BNW games to know if they're targeted or not. Going culturally they're a must, but going for war I don't care about them.

Hermitage is much more important in BNW than it was in the past for culture victory, but even for other victory types it's turned into a more-or-less default NW for me because it's much more common to want opera houses in every city - whatever your playstyle, you need culture for policies and guilds to produce it (you might not care about Musicians specifically, but +6 culture a turn from each Guild building is not something anyone can afford to pass on).

The National Epic i can usually squeeze into a city sometime in the game, but probably 1/4 of the time I just delay until I built it because I'm bored.

I try to build it whenever possible as soon as I have specialist-filled Universities and so am generating enough GS points for its bonus to be meaningful.

EIC I'd probably only grab if I had a city that had nothing else to do. Very low on my list.

If you're going for war, obviously trade-related Wonders are hardly a priority.

 

[Sir Parker II]

Always
National College
Oxford University
Circus Maximus

Usually
National Epic
East India Company
Ironworks

Rarely
Hermitage
National Intelligence Agency

For Grand Temple and National Visitors center, I don't build them unless I have a major religion or am going for a cultural victory.

 

[Bex]

I like one-city games, so all of them usually (except grand temple if no religion obviously). I beeline national college but they're all pretty good.

 

[GhostSalsa]

Surprised about the comments on NVC. I always try to have hotels up in any city with a landmark or wonder because hotels area a good building - a zero-maintenance offensive weapon that helps drain opponent AI happiness. In my Autocracy games I'm usually up in Telecom to unlock diplo victory so NVC is pretty easy to grab.

 

[PhilBowles]

Surprised about the comments on NVC. I always try to have hotels up in any city with a landmark or wonder because hotels area a good building - a zero-maintenance offensive weapon that helps drain opponent AI happiness. In my Autocracy games I'm usually up in Telecom to unlock diplo victory so NVC is pretty easy to grab.

I suspect most of us just don't have many cities that fit the bill - many players concentrate Wonders and GP improvements in a single city to maximise a number of benefits (GP points, and associated bonuses like NE and Gardens, Hermitage culture, all gold buildings, observatories and research labs), and you don't have much control over where landmarks spawn beyond settling near sites that used to have barbarian camps. That means that to go for the Visitor Center you're building Hotels in a lot of places where they do exactly nothing - and while they don't have a maintenance cost, they do cost hammers to produce.

NVC would probably see more use if it was based on airports, or if hotels had a secondary function of their own. An NW based on hotels is about as attractive as one based on Caravanseries or Gardens - sure, they're very useful buildings in the right cities, but you don't want them everywhere. It's the same reason people don't much use Heroic Epic or National Intelligence Agency (the latter having the serious drawback that it's reliant on a second tier version of a building you don't want more than one or two of).

 

[GhostSalsa]

Well that's just it - landmarks spawn in random places, very rarely near the capital since there's no qualifying barb encounters. Plus stealing AI cities means more wonder-spread. Obviously it varies, but I never pass up any chance to make the AI slightly sadder. It's just so satisfying.

 

[joncnunn]

I always eventually build all national wonders.

 

[Paszczak]

Circus Maximus (Colosseum in all cities) - always. Can never have too much happiness in this game. Every time I build a CM I shed a tear for good ol' days when Stadiums gave 5

Ironworks (Workshop in all cities) - always and it's my favourite one. Unlike other yields, flat stays relevant throughout the game.

National College (Libraries in all Cities) - always, and I don't like it. I wish they nerfed NC to like 25% so I could build it at my leisure and not break my neck rushing Libraries & NC every time.

National Epic (Monument in all cities) - always, and I'm always having troubles finishing it because every so often I will be razing a city without a monument and the production will stop xD

Oxford University (University in all cities) - always and it feels much more balanced than NC. And it comes with 2 slots and a theming bonus!

East India Company (Market in all cities) - Sometimes. I used to get it every time, but I stopped ever since I got a sweet EIC in my coastal city that was giving me 5x12 from incoming trade routes and was embargo'ed 7 turns later xD

Hermitage (Opera House in all cities) - only if I desperately need slots for Great Works of Art, otherwise not a big priority, so sometimes.

National Visitor's Center (Hotel in all cities) - only when going for a Cultural Victory so in my case rarely.

Grand Temple (Temple in all cities, found religion) - almost never. I liked it when they added GT in a patch. It felt cool and thematic. However temples maintenance is just too damn high to justify getting the GT most of the times

Heroic Epic (Barracks in all cities) - never because it sucks! Even if my aim for domination and have naturally built barracks in every city - I can have slightly stronger units from just one of them? Pfft.

National Intelligence Agency (Police Station in all cities) - never. Not only are Police Stations an absolute waste in any city other than the cap, I avoid getting one even in my cap. I like to be able to level up my counterspies faster xD

That would be 5-6 every game.

 

[cpm4001]

Assuming the game goes on long enough, I'll build all of them. Yes, even the National Visitor's Center and the Heroic Epic and the Grand Temple (if I founded a religion.
Here's why:

National College (Libraries in all Cities) - Pretty much vital to any strategy, and needs no real explanation. Next!

National Epic (Monument in all cities) - Very, very important to boost your GWAM production, though it's handy to have anyway. Also, if you've taken Legalism it's a breeze to get up-and-running.

Heroic Epic (Barracks in all cities) - Now, perhaps it's because I tend to play tall and build Barracks in all my cities, or perhaps it's because I'm kind of OCD about having highly-promoted troops, but I like the Heroic Epic. The extra 15% combat bonus is really, really nice and it's also good to have the extra GWW slot.

Grand Temple (Temple in all cities, found religion) - I don't really get some of the hate to it. If you're going heavily religious, you're probably going to have temples built in your cities, and the extra faith and religion spread is just a nice bonus.

East India Company (Market in all cities) - +4 Gold for free and then a bonus to trade routes? That adds up to a lot of extra gold.

Ironworks (Workshop in all cities) - Extra Production is good!

Hermitage (Opera House in all cities) - This is vital for a Culture Victory, and even if you're not going for one it gives you a place to put those Great Works of Art you've probably accumulated by this point in the game.

National Visitor's Center (Hotel in all cities) - This seems to be rather underrated. You pretty much need this thing to get a late-game culture victory in any sort of reasonable timeframe, and since if you're going for a CV anyway you should have hotels in all your cities it isn't that hard to build this. The only times I won't build it is when the game's already over.

National Intelligence Agency (Police Station in all cities) - Granted Police Stations are somewhat annoying to build, but the extra spy is really handy.

Oxford University (University in all cities) - Free tech is good!

Circus Maximus (Colosseum in all cities) - +5 Happiness is good!

 

[PhilBowles]

Hermitage (Opera House in all cities) - only if I desperately need slots for Great Works of Art, otherwise not a big priority, so sometimes.

It works for artifacts too - or, if you want the theming bonus, think of it as freeing up artifact slots in the museums. More importantly it still has the same effect on culture it always did (+50% in home city), and since you are building opera houses pretty much everywhere - both as homes for music in their own right and to unlock museums - there's little reason not to build it. For a tall empire with Wonders and guilds concentrated in the capital, it's basically a second Sistine Chapel.

Incidentally, on the subject of Guilds we are missing three NWs from the list - however since they're as automatic as National College it's hardly worth adding them.

Grand Temple (Temple in all cities, found religion) - almost never. I liked it when they added GT in a patch. It felt cool and thematic. However temples maintenance is just too damn high to justify getting the GT most of the times

One more reason why it's designed to go well with Piety - the policy that gives temples a net positive effect on income (increase city gold by 25%, also a boost to holy site income that pays for the temple if you have one site).

Agreed it was great when they added it - also agreed that it has a niche use, however as it can only be built in a Holy City anyway, most of the time you'll actually want it you'll be going Piety.

National Intelligence Agency (Police Station in all cities) - never. Not only are Police Stations an absolute waste in any city other than the cap, I avoid getting one even in my cap. I like to be able to level up my counterspies faster xD

I've found AIs steal tech so rarely now that I don't even build a constabulary in the capital - the AI's much more fond of diplomats, even when it never actually asks you to vote for it (they should fix that behaviour).

 

[GoStu]

Heroic Epic (Barracks in all cities) - Now, perhaps it's because I tend to play tall and build Barracks in all my cities, or perhaps it's because I'm kind of OCD about having highly-promoted troops, but I like the Heroic Epic. The extra 15% combat bonus is really, really nice and it's also good to have the extra GWW slot.

I suppose it's not a huge cost to someone going Tall, but even then: it requires you to build an XP-giving building in every city, but only gives you any bonus for building troops in one of them.

This makes me wonder if it's a viable option to get a Barracks in every city while my empire's still small and I haven't really built much military yet, Build the Heroic Epic, and then sell all the extra barracks after it's done. As to my troops, I could push them with more all-out aggression and use Heal Instantly a bit more, then disband and rebuild later with the Morale promotion.

Incidentally, on the subject of Guilds we are missing three NWs from the list - however since they're as automatic as National College it's hardly worth adding them.

I tend to think of them a little differently as they don't require the commitment of building a building in every city. Also, I believe everyone builds them sooner or later, albeit that the Musician's guild gets built late if you're into the 'optimal' cultural victory.

 

[reddishrecue]

I usually build most national wonders if possible that I can. The wonder I put most priority to build is the national college while the national wonder that I put with the least priority is either national intelligence agency or heroic epic.

 

[azzaman333]

NC, NE and IW almost always.

The rest vary on how I'm playing that particular game.