Patronage finisher plus Futurism?

[martyb36]

Do the great people gifted by city states from patronage's finisher trigger futurism from autocracy tree? Could be a cheeky bonus if they do..... I'd try it out in my current game but I've already gone for freedom

 

[joncnunn]

It does provide a bonus. However, unless you are playing Poland, this has a built in penalty of greatly slowing down completing Rationalism, and so would slow down your victory.

 

[stormtrooper412]

why would you need to complete Rationalism for a CV?

 

[Delnar_Ersike]

You need to be able to purchase Great Scientists with faith to ensure you can shoot up the tech tree like everyone else; otherwise, you'll be left behind, building SAMs and Infantry when everyone else is building XCOMs and Stealth Bombers. The only situation where you don't necessarily need to fill out Rationalism is when you have the Glory to God Reformation belief, since that lets you purchase Great Scientists without having to complete Rationalism (and Great Engineers without completing Tradition, hence why Liberty players love it).
For cultural victory specifically, Internet is a vital tech to reach quickly, so getting there as quickly as possible is important.

 

[RuleroftheHex]

Rationalism allows for the Tourism jump that comes with Hotels and Airports to happen earlier. Also, you need to keep up in tech to prevent conquest.
Regarding Futurism, it's really not worth going Autocracy just for that and Cult of Personality. CSes occasionally grant GPs, not every few turns. Meanwhile, Autocracy doesn't do a great CV, because Cult of Personality is awful, as it hurts Tourism output with one civ while helping a little with another. 50% increasd Tourism for 10ish turns really isn't worth it over Media Culture or Dictatorship of the Proletariat. You're better off going Freedom, even if Futurism is nifty.

 

[stormtrooper412]

You need to be able to purchase Great Scientists with faith to ensure you can shoot up the tech tree like everyone else; otherwise, you'll be left behind, building SAMs and Infantry when everyone else is building XCOMs and Stealth Bombers. The only situation where you don't necessarily need to fill out Rationalism is when you have the Glory to God Reformation belief, since that lets you purchase Great Scientists without having to complete Rationalism (and Great Engineers without completing Tradition, hence why Liberty players love it).
For cultural victory specifically, Internet is a vital tech to reach quickly, so getting there as quickly as possible is important.

You don't need any of that for a reasonably fast Internet which is basically all the tech you need. You can burn through SPs really fast using massively many GWAMs and winning the WF.

Rationalism allows for the Tourism jump that comes with Hotels and Airports to happen earlier. Also, you need to keep up in tech to prevent conquest.
Regarding Futurism, it's really not worth going Autocracy just for that and Cult of Personality. CSes occasionally grant GPs, not every few turns. Meanwhile, Autocracy doesn't do a great CV, because Cult of Personality is awful, as it hurts Tourism output with one civ while helping a little with another. 50% increasd Tourism for 10ish turns really isn't worth it over Media Culture or Dictatorship of the Proletariat. You're better off going Freedom, even if Futurism is nifty.

I'm inclined to agree but I'm not sold on the idea, there's untapped potential in Autocracy CVs that I simply never get around to test out. If the Cult of Personality adds 50% per common enemy, that makes it all kinds of broken and for a limited amount of time you can stalemate the world while having a makeshift Carnival to help catch that runaway

 

[Delnar_Ersike]

You don't need any of that for a reasonably fast Internet which is basically all the tech you need. You can burn through SPs really fast using massively many GWAMs and winning the WF.

I guess it depends on whether you're playing multiplayer or singleplayer. In multiplayer, you need fast tech to make sure you get at least one free Autocracy tenet to select Futurism; if you work your guilds just enough to generate a GWAM the next turn they are worked and wait until Futurism to spawn your first GWAM, you'll maximize tourism output. You also need the fast tech to make sure your opponents generate as little culture as possible before you hit them with the big Futurism hammer. Since human opponents will catch on pretty quick, you'll want to end the game fast once you start on Futurism; if you ever make it to Cult of Personality, you've probably taken too long. In fact, AFAIK, Futurism is pretty much the only way to win CV in multiplayer, with Sacred Sites gimmick placing a distant second (your opponents just have too much time to prepare). Also, IIRC, Futurism's tourism bonus isn't adjusted for game speed, so you'll get the most out of it on Quick.
In singleplayer at higher difficulty levels, AIs will generate so much culture that Futurism won't be enough to win you the game alone.

Either way, if you're going to finish a policy tree to make the most out of Futurism, why not go for Aesthetics instead? Patronage's finisher might net you three or four free GWAMs over the course of the game if you're lucky, but Aesthetics will let you purchase at least twice as many GWAMs with Faith in addition to boosting your GWAM generation by 25%. Plus, if you time it well, you could even leave Artistic Genius for last and pick it up right after you get Futurism.

I'm inclined to agree but I'm not sold on the idea, there's untapped potential in Autocracy CVs that I simply never get around to test out. If the Cult of Personality adds 50% per common enemy, that makes it all kinds of broken and for a limited amount of time you can stalemate the world while having a makeshift Carnival to help catch that runaway

Cult of Personality does indeed add 50% per common major civ enemy (CS wars don't count), even if you are at war with the civ; the multiplier is additive, so if everyone is at war with everyone on a Standard map with 8 players, you'll get a 4x multiplier on tourism to all players (each player is at war with 6 other players who you are also at war with). The multiplier is also additive with all other tourism bonuses (trade routes, open borders, diplomat in capitol, shared religion) except for Internet, so if you already have +50% from shared religion and open borders, it'll be a 4.5x multiplier with Cult of Personality.

 

[stormtrooper412]

you know, I can win a Deity map pretty comfortably but I know for a fact I'd get creamed in MP

 

[RuleroftheHex]

I'm inclined to agree but I'm not sold on the idea, there's untapped potential in Autocracy CVs that I simply never get around to test out. If the Cult of Personality adds 50% per common enemy, that makes it all kinds of broken and for a limited amount of time you can stalemate the world while having a makeshift Carnival to help catch that runaway

Futurism is less than one turn's worth of Tourism after Hotels, especially for civs like France and Polynesia. That's one of the two Tourism bonuses in the ENTIRE Autocracy tree. Meanwhile, you could go Order like all the AIs (in SP) and get Dictatorship of the Proletariat and Cultural Revolution. Believe me, with the right buildings and policies Dictatorship of the Proletariat is an easy 34%, even on Deity. The only other Tourism tenet out of Autocracy is Cult of Personality, the one you mentioned. Runaways aren't guaranteed to want to go to war. You would have to pay them, since the "shall we go to war with..." doesn't really work. Even after you pay them, that's what? 10 turns of 50% increased Tourism? All the while, with a war, you're running the risk of ITR plundering by the civ you've gone to war with. ITRs yield 25% increased Tourism, and help maintain a religious bonus for another 25% if applicable. While there are no guarantees, you run the risk of losing bonuses if you don't play your cards right.

And, let's consider opportunity cost. Freedom's Media Culture and Order's aforementioned bonuses are only slightly weaker, but those are more or less permanent. Also, people are talking about stacking CoP bonuses? That's hard to really make happen, and realistically, it's hard to maintain more than two wars at a time while fighting alongside the same person.