Proposal (Draft 1): Convert "Withdraw from Melee Bonuses" into "Reduced Melee Damage"

[ma_kuh]

Jinete is the only part of that proposal I still think needs a tweak. For one it shouldn't be on mounted melee. If the desire is to have Alhambra continue to buff mounted melee I'd suggest one of the high-tier promos like Overrun be swapped for it.

Jinete could then be added to the skirmisher line as a leaf promotion. Sort of adds dissonance with Commanche Riders and Camel Archers, I'll admit, but skirmisher feels like the right line for Withdraw effects.

 

[azum4roll]

New promotion for Alhambra (free on all mounted melee): -25% damage taken when attacking

 

[usadefcon1]

Proposal #2

 

[Rekk]

While not perfect, we could consider adding some consistency to the mechanic. So for example, when a unit hits another with melee withdraw, each hex around the unit has a specific priority. The unit will always withdraw to the highest priority hex, unless that hex is not viable, in which case it goes to the next one. I am not considering this as a replacement to my proprosal but possibly an augment (or probably a seperate proposal as I don't think one is necessary to have the other).

Here's an example:

View attachment 665290

So in this example, the unit attacks from the left. The unit will always withdraw to hex 1 (aka directly away from it) if that hex is viable. If not, than it will always withdraw to hex 2, and then if hex 2 is not available, than hex 3, etc etc.

The logic is:
1) Withdraw directly across from the attack if able.
2) If not, withdraw 1 hex counterclockwise.
3) if not, withdraw 1 hex clockwise.
4) if not, withdraw 2 hexs counterclockwise.
5) if not, withdraw 2 hexs clockwise.
6) if not, no withdraw occurs.

I chose counterclockwise over clockwise purely arbitrarily, we could easily swap them.

The unit can't go to 4 or 5 anyway.

 

[rkkn]

New promotion for Alhambra (free on all mounted melee): -25% damage taken when attacking

yes, I think this is much more fitting than a straight -15% melee damage. I'm no history war expert, but I'm pretty sure cavalry aren't used to stand their ground and hold a line.

 

[BliTTzZ]

I think withdraw from melee should be completely removed from melee ships. While we simply remove it from Destroyer/Missile Cruiser, Nau needs something in return. Proposed 25% damage reduction is fine, but not quite interesting. Not very Portuguese I guess. Since Nau were usually used as trade ships, perhaps reduced or no mantinaince costs?

Recon line starting from Commando is the most interesting candidate for 25% damage reduction from melee promotion. Feels good with me since military scouts are skilled soldiers and use their finesse to avoid enemy fire on shorter distances.

Commanche Raiders and Camel Archers can keep this ability. But it should have 100% chance to withdraw from only one melee attack. The same goes for Submarines with their Wolfpack 3 promotion.

Jinete from Alhambra could provide 25% damage reduction for attacking in melee. Feels more like cavalry as others mentioned already.

 

[azum4roll]

I'll submit submarine and ranged ship promotion tree rework when ENW is integrated. For now, there shouldn't be major changes on them.

 

[usadefcon1]

ok so this is shaping up into 2 proposals, so lets break them up.

Proposal 1: Reduce Withdraw from Melee Mechanic
Unit Updates (this replaces the "withdraw from melee" mechanic the unit currently has)

• Commando: Take 25% less damage when defending from melee.
• Destroyer: Removed.
• Nau: Take 25% less damage when defending from melee. (should this be unchanged to, should we leave the mechanic in for UUs?)
• Commanche Rider: Unchanged
• Camel Archer: Unchanged

Wonders

• Alhambra: Jinete promotion now gives: Mounted melee units take 15% less damage when defending from melee.

Promotions

• Blockade: Untouched (as a leaf promotion we leave this alone if someone does want to withdraw from melee.
• Wolfpack 3: Unit takes +10% less damage from melee

Proposal 2: Updates to Withdraw from Melee

• Mechanic now works 100% of the time on the first attack (no longer considered based on speed). Works 0% on subsequent attacks.
• Withdraw always occurs to hex across from the attacker if possible. If not, goes to counterclockwise hex. If not, then clockwise hex. If all 3 hexes are blocked, withdraw drops to 0%.

Is this going to be officially proposed?

 

[Stalker0]

Is this going to be officially proposed?

yes I'm tweaking some details, but yes I do plan to put in the two proposals.

 

[BliTTzZ]

yes I'm tweaking some details, but yes I do plan to put in the two proposals.

Should Russian Cossack also be included here? Because Cossacks have an ability to make enemy units retreat with 25% chance. Perhaps this one needs to be reworked as well?